Fat troops on the street....

[c4th]

I passed everything on the pt test except the run *&$%@!!!!

What PT test are you talking about?   The two CF sanctioned PT tests are the express test, and the BFT.   It sounds to me as if an old 400 test is being conducted here.   If that is the case, I seem to remember that there was an advantageous scoring differential based of an age demarcation somewhere in the 30's.  

Just recently I found out from a friend that my chain of command had let slip the results of my pt test.   Some of the comments I found out about made even the rudest ones here look tame.
Sadly however the ones who have had the most to say, are HUGE themselves and they stopped doing all exercise as soon as the BFT was over, and don't start exercising until the next year.

Maybe some remedial leadership is in order here.

1. Reserves or regs pt should be mandatory everyday.   ...I have tried arguing that at my reserve unit, but it is a money issue.   'They are only here part time if they get injured there are too many hassles for the military, if they get hurt'   It has been a while since I got in, did we not have to sign something that explained the job and the expectations ???

Certainly anyone RegF or PRes Class B/C should be averaging PT every day where practical.   Class A sub-units do not typically have the budget or the time to mandate any type of PT that is likely to make any difference to an individual soldier.   CF98's are not that hard to fill out.  

4.Regardless of the time and money pt should not ever be cut from course curriculum.   It is too important to the job.   If the day has to be longer to get things done, or the course an extra week..so be it.

Time and money are the left and rights of arc.   If a course is long enough that a soldier's physical fitness can either be improved or a lack of physical training is likely to reduce a soldiers overall fitness level then, yes PT should be mandated.   On any course less than three weeks, if soldiers show up fit there is no reason to burn a weeks worth of course resources in an already limited training system.   Personally, I have usually derived more benefit from course content than course PT. Although, a refresher on points/marker drills is always amusing at 0530.  

PT is a discipline, and it's hard work.   Those I know who are old and fit, started out young and active, and generally have led a life of regular rigorous PT.   Reg or Res, this seems to include at least some PT outside of normal working hours for most people.   Physical bankruptcy is very hard to reverse, and does not get any easier with age.  

I don't think I would recommend getting too wrapped around the axle on big short-term goals unless you have a decent base to work with.   Shaving a minute off of a 2.4 km run is big. Going from 2 - 10 chin-ups is big.   It would be better to commit to a lifelong level of physical activity and improvement than possibly setting yourself up for failure on the next PT test.   20 years from now your last run time will matter little if you gave up in despair because some score sheet thinks you need to run a 5 or 6 minute km.

 

[Springroll]

Incidentally I have met guys and girls on my courses that are extremely fit but are the biggest wimps, whining about everything. Personally I would prefer to have someone heavy on my course, if they work their *** off to deserve to be there.
  Fat comes and goes, whiny ******* stays forever.

I am with you on that. I am one of those work their arse off and do the job types. Takes alot to get me whining...like gashing my foot open. I didn't even whine then, just grabbed a towel, wrapped it up and got hubby to take me to the ER...I can handle just about anything that is handed out to me without whining a peep.

I am a little differently structured as far as my body is concerned. I seem to hold my extra weight very well. I hit almost 200lbs and my doc did not believe her scale...I told her it all must be in my back end!!

I would sooner serve with people who are over weight and can handle what is dealt out to them than to serve with people who whine about everything.

 

[Young KH]

Opinion with no facts.

For the people who don't want to serve with the over weight, smokers , or drinkers. May even want to extend that to Gays, short people, people with speech problems and even might want to cut the too skinny out. Be careful for what you wish because you might just get it and soon you can be standing on the front line all by yourself.

If you want to belong to a exclusive group of fit and shapely people join a fitness club.

 

[c4th]

Opinion with no facts.

right as usual

For the people who don't want to serve with the over weight, smokers , or drinkers. May even want to extend that to Gays....

I think extending it to ex-RCR Cpl's circa 1965-1977 who are OTL is exclusive enough.

     

 

[DogOfWar]

Opinion with no facts.

For the people who don't want to serve with the over weight, smokers , or drinkers. May even want to extend that to Gays, short people, people with speech problems and even might want to cut the too skinny out. Be careful for what you wish because you might just get it and soon you can be standing on the front line all by yourself.

If you want to belong to a exclusive group of fit and shapely people join a fitness club.

You can lose weight and increase your physical prowress. You cant became ungay and tall.Thats a ridiculous leap in logic. Get fit or get out. I believe we should introduce the weight management system they have in the states. Overweight? Here is your new diet and workout routine. Dont feel like doing it? Heres the door and my boot. I dont care about this "im a 230 pound 5' nothing individual but I work hard and get the job done". Ive done alot of working out myself, Ive done a lot of PT with a lot of individuals and Ive heard alot of talk come from various 'roundies'  but Ive yet to see a person who is REALLY out of shape lead or even stay with the pack. I remember one example of a 5km run where a certain loud mouthed individual ran almost 200m before crying. She had assured everyone that just because she was fat didnt mean she was out of shape.

Ive got all the time in the world for people who are trying to make that change! I myself was 320 pounds at 18 and fat as hell. I dropped to 215 and very fit- and so can anyone else! If you have a gland or thyroid problem get on meds and control your diet dont sit around eating and using it as an excuse. Its just plain old scientific fact that if your body is healthy it wont hold onto that weight. Im not trying to tell you to be a size 1 or have 32 inch waist (for the guys) but lets b realistic!

 

[armywoman]

Certainly anyone RegF or PRes Class B/C should be averaging PT every day where practical.   Class A sub-units do not typically have the budget or the time to mandate any type of PT that is likely to make any difference to an individual soldier.   CF98's are not that hard to fill out.  

I certainly agree. I think that once troops get in that you have to show them what is expected right away.   When they go to their units and see someone in their chain of command that has a belly so big that their buttons are about to pop.   Who always seem to disappear when you do training that involves hard work.   It sends a message that hey the army does not care.
It does not take too much during a 3 hour parade night to do one lap around the gym, one minute of pushups and sit ups.   It will take about half an hour away from the training night, but when you think of it, the pt aspect is as important to the job as learning how to fire a C7.   If you do not have the upper body strength to lift, or carry it.   It is a waste of time training them where to point it, if they can not get it pointed in the right direction.
Of course it is hard to police CLA res.   However CLB pers that is a different story.   Bottom line   You joined the army, make an honest effort to do what is expected.

Time and money are the left and rights of arc.   If a course is long enough that a soldier's physical fitness can either be improved or a lack of physical training is likely to reduce a soldiers overall fitness level then, yes PT should be mandated.   On any course less than three weeks, if soldiers show up fit there is no reason to burn a weeks worth of course resources in an already limited training system.   Personally, I have usually derived more benefit from course content than course PT. Although, a refresher on points/marker drills is always amusing at 0530.  

I agree again, that and on a course they try to bash as much info into your skull as they can.   Yet how many reservists do you know make pt a life choice and go to their course in shape.   Incidentally anything amusing at 0530 in the morning.

PT is a discipline, and it's hard work.   Those I know who are old and fit, started out young and active, and generally have led a life of regular rigorous PT.   Reg or Res, this seems to include at least some PT outside of normal working hours for most people.   Physical bankruptcy is very hard to reverse, and does not get any easier with age.  
I don't think I would recommend getting too wrapped around the axle on big short-term goals unless you have a decent base to work with.   Shaving a minute off of a 2.4 km run is big. Going from 2 - 10 chin-ups is big.   It would be better to commit to a lifelong level of physical activity and improvement than possibly setting yourself up for failure on the next PT test.   20 years from now your last run time will matter little if you gave up in despair because some score sheet thinks you need to run a 5 or 6 minute km.

It most certainly is.   I however, have already decided to make this a life style change instead of a just when I have to pass a test kind of thing.   My mom died last year of a very sudden heart attack. I think that was more help then anything.   She was 54.   So I have decided to make it something permanent.   Sadly I am noticing now that it really does not take much.   I walk the 10 blocks to the grocery store.   I only get a couple of days food so that I have to walk down again.   I live in Vancouver..Hello!! Outdoor sports!! There is mountains to be climbed and oceans to be paddled.  
I have convinced a coworker to form and adventure racing team with me and are going to start training together when he gets back from summer tasking and we find one more male and female member for our team.
Of course now I find myself wondering how I have wasted away the last 15 years my life.

Hm..   The Battle of the Bulge  

 

[Britney Spears]

Yet how many reservists do you know make pt a life choice and go to their course in shape.

The ones who are worth anything in a fight do.

I must admit that all this doubletalk about BMI and big bones and whatever is rather incomprehensible to me. Being fit == better chance of survival on the battlefield. What MORE incentive do you need? Now fitness is all relative, no one expects clerks and the air force to be on the same level as JTF2 but how on earth can anyone be in the CF and NOT want to improve their physical fitness every day ("make PT a lifestlye")??  The value systems of some people just baffle me......

 

[48Highlander]

The ones who are worth anything in a fight do.

I must admit that all this doubletalk about BMI and big bones and whatever is rather incomprehensible to me. Being fit == better chance of survival on the battlefield. What MORE incentive do you need? Now fitness is all relative, no one expects clerks and the air force to be on the same level as JTF2 but how on earth can anyone be in the CF and NOT want to improve their physical fitness every day ("make PT a lifestlye")??   The value systems of some people just baffle me......

What's with all this warlike talk.  We're peacekeepers, we'll never see a battlefield!  It doesn't take much fitness to distribute IMP's and water.

 

[DogOfWar]

What's with all this warlike talk.   We're peacekeepers, we'll never see a battlefield!   It doesn't take much fitness to distribute IMP's and water.

you are right we forgot were peacekeeps, lets get cadpat wheelchairs for deploying roundies.

 

[Britney Spears]

Heh, good point. How about "Being fit == Better chance of surviving on the battlefield, even if you're not actually engaged in the battle and were just minding your own business handing out IMPs?" Surely an appeal to one's sense of self preservation must have some effect? I suppose we can leave the more advanced "Being fit == better chance of completing the mission" aspect to just the cbt arms....

 

[Jarnhamar]

The Canadian Forces give people a lot of ways out of staying fit. ESPECIALLY the reserves.

It's all together possible for soldiers to show up for summer taskings with "no PT" chits.


What the reserves (as a component) needs to do to make themselves 200% more effective cost and man power wise IS fire soldiers from summer taskings who can't perform their job.  Don't keep them around, send them home. If they get paid or not should be up to the reserve regiment. A reservists doesn't have to be the be all end all of physical fitness but they should be able to perform their job. Their fitness shouldn't make them ineffective.

Now I know some soldiers get hurt while on tasking and upon being sent home retain employment at their unit. Thats great. It's happened to me. I'm not talking about that.

I'm talking about the soldiers who show up for tasking INJURED.  
Oh i cant drive vehicles because I have a bad back.  Hey dummy, you applied for a DRIVER TASKING how the hell can you not drive? (Or guys applying for driver taskings with no 404s - soldiers applying for demo/enemy force taskings who have chits saying "no patrolling, no field work")
I'm not sure who's more to blame, the soldier for going on these taskings or the reserve regiment who sends people away without checking the members suitability.

This whole "We'll find work for them somewhere" attitude doesn't work because then you have 30 soldiers who aren't qualified to do anything lounging around picking up sticks on the front lawns of buildings meanwhile the guys who are qualified for these jobs end up doing 4 jobs at once.

If a reseve soldier gets seriously injured while on tasking send them home and take care of them.
If a reserve soldier gets a little owie but doesn't think they can do PT for the rest of the summer (But has NO problem going to the mess and bar every night) send them to medical experts and figure out whats wrong. If they are found to be malingering CHARGE them. Make an example out of them.
If a reserve soldier shows up for a tasking that they are unable to perform, put them back on a bus and send them home.

Start doing that and the quality of reserve soldiers that the regular force are augmented by will increase 200%.

How does this tie in with PT?
If you look at all the soldiers with no PT chits or a bunch of injuries 99% of them are not the guys and girls who are obviously PT orientated.

 

[karl28]

Being overweight is a serious health risk to any individual I don't think any one would disagree  . IF I was in the military and I am not and even if I was good at my job I would still want to be in the best physical shape for a couple of reason 1)  part of being in the military is being able to represent your country and I would want to look my best so that way I would act the part and look the part I am not saying that you have to be a muscle bond hunk but you should be in good enough shape that way you can help pull your own weight. 2) in todays world Peace keeping can be just as dangerous as a combat environment at least that what you seem to here on the news and I wouldn't want to get killed because I couldn't do my job quick enough .   I hope that  no one will be offended by my comments just my two cents and I hope that over weight troops can get access to the programs that they need so that way they can get back into shape . I know it hard I am getting back into shape my self I go the gym 6 days a week its early I have only been going for a week but I think that it will be worth it in the long run .  Once again I stress that this is just my two cents worth .

 

[Britney Spears]

I hope that over weight troops can get access to the programs that they need so that way they can get back into shape .

They already do. Everyone(army) is issued a rucksack and a pair of boots when they first get in. The rest is up to the individual soldier.

 

[armywoman]

I find that it is the ones that don't want to make an effort that are a problem.  Those of us who are in, know the types. GMT (or whatever is it called now) would not be the same without the ones that fall behind, the ones that run ahead of anyone else, but can not learn a drill to save their life.  Or can not tell the difference between left and right.  The ones that think the are hot @(#$, etc.

The army I am finding does have alot of help, it is a little harder here in the west where we do not have much of a base left, access to PSP staff is hard to come by.  There is help though.  Luckily the CWO at the HCC here is top notch!!  Good Man!

Now BMI I do not follow at all. I read an article in an magazine about 5 years ago.  It was on the BMI and the Canadian Olympic Rowing Team.  Apparently when some changes were made to the system, the whole team is now considered overweight.  All because of the BMI.  I think that someone who can do all that they are required to do, and do their job.  If they do not fit a cookie cutter then that is okay.
Last week after admitting to the CWO that I was becoming frustrated that I am not losing weight fast enough he said to me.  Soldiers don't come in one size and shape.  Smart man, unfortunately when I did my GMT I lost 78lbs in 6 weeks!  Since then I don't find it acceptable when someone tells me it takes time.  I once considered voluntarily going on GMT again, I probably would have been sent to a psychiatrist but hey it was the best workout program I had ever been on.
I do agree that somethings needs to be done.  If they feel personnel aren't up to snuff they are tested, provided access to the programs are given 6 months to show changes.  If they do not they are given the choice in or out.
Given the shortage of the personnel, and the bleeding hearts that will cry that their human rights and dignity is being ignored.  There has to be a major change.
I also think that everyone that goes on courses, etc has to pass the pt test.  Stop wasting valuable training funds on people who are useless or out of shape, just because you are worried about getting a complaint made against you.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The BMI is a joke. It was designed by an insurance adjuster/ company in order to increase premiums. Now it's taken as gospel, and if most normal people hit their BMI, they're probably more unhealthy than they think. Mine calls for 165 lbs, I haven't been that since I was 15. I came out of basic at 185, after gaining weight there and 190 while on the tanks.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

According to the BMI me and my 260 lbs are already dead..........

 

[DogOfWar]

According to the BMI me and my 260 lbs are already dead..........

My 260 pounds too!LOL.....I cant wait to figure my BMI out next year when Im 290 LOL. Me and the guys at the gym check our BMIs as a joke.

"Ahh Im only 35 on the BMI. Im aiming for 45!"

 

[Torlyn]

The BMI is a joke. It was designed by an insurance adjuster/ company in order to increase premiums. Now it's taken as gospel, and if most normal people hit their BMI, they're probably more unhealthy than they think. Mine calls for 165 lbs, I haven't been that since I was 15. I came out of basic at 185, after gaining weight there and 190 while on the tanks.

I'll second that...  I'm 6'4, 210lbs, and I'm in the yellow for being overweight...  To anyone who's seen me, that's enough to make you barf with laughter... 

T

 

[Good2Golf]

BMI, aside from being nothing more than a questionable guideline, really loses it for taller people...people still think of my 195 and 6'2" as skinny and yet I am "overweight" occording to my 26 BMI... :

Duey

 

[SeanPaul_031]

We're all soldiers first.  Like I said before, if you are not prepared, physically and mentally, to win the land battle, then your wasting space.

Agreed.
Gluttony is a sin