Federal Goverment's Kinder Morgan pipeline purchase

[a_majoor]

OK, but what's the problem with refining it in Alberta and using it for our own market needs. The uses for oil as I'm sure you are well aware go far beyond fuel energy. It is THE primary strategic ingredient in hardware coverings, new building materials and other products from emerging  manufacturing technologies.
It is disheartening to see that this country continues to de-industrialize and cede that space to Asia and others when we could lead.
Really, why was this not part of the backup plan of the feds?

It should be fairly self evident the Feds had no real plan going in, and indeed most of this mess is self induced by the very Liberal government which is now buying the pipeline and will grandly tax us for another 7-10 billion "investment money" to build the thing. So there never was a backup plan, and of course if they run into trouble again, there will be no "plan B" then, either.

 

[Good2Golf]

It should be fairly self evident the Feds had no real plan going in, and indeed most of this mess is self induced by the very Liberal government which is now buying the pipeline and will grandly tax us for another 7-10 billion "investment money" to build the thing. So there never was a backup plan, and of course if they run into trouble again, there will be no "plan B" then, either.

Sounds like Canada has a fighter jet oil refining "Capability Gap."  Perhaps we could get some used refineries to tide us over until more modern refineries are built?

Cheers,
G2G

 

[Altair]

Sounds like Canada has a fighter jet oil refining "Capability Gap."  Perhaps we could get some used refineries to tide us over until more modern refineries are built?

Cheers,
G2G

North America does not need more refineries

 

[Good2Golf]

North America does not need more refineries

It either needs more pipelines, or more refineries, but not neither...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The pickle for the Libs is that if KM walks, then any other proposal to build it would fall under their new legislation that is before Parliament and that would most certainly kill it. The current proposed pipeline will remain grandfathered under the Harper era rules as long as they continue with it. Meaning that the Libs can't take the long road on this. 

 

[YZT580]

The pickle for the Libs is that if KM walks, then any other proposal to build it would fall under their new legislation that is before Parliament and that would most certainly kill it. The current proposed pipeline will remain grandfathered under the Harper era rules as long as they continue with it. Meaning that the Libs can't take the long road on this.

Or they get hoisted by their own petard.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Well, this is interesting.  A BC company claims to be sucking CO2 from the air and creating fuel. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-company-says-it-is-sucking-carbon-from-air-making-fuel-1.4696817

 

[ModlrMike]

There's certainly enough hot air to use as a resource!

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Well, this is interesting.  A BC company claims to be sucking CO2 from the air and creating fuel. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-company-says-it-is-sucking-carbon-from-air-making-fuel-1.4696817

If this actually works as advertised and is scaleable, this is a game changer.

 

[Bearpaw]

More on the CO2 direct conversion technology:

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/06/cost-plunges-capturing-carbon-dioxide-air

 

[Kirkhill]

Well, this is interesting.  A BC company claims to be sucking CO2 from the air and creating fuel. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-company-says-it-is-sucking-carbon-from-air-making-fuel-1.4696817

Here's a thought - apply the technology where it is most cost effective - ie where the CO2 concentration is richest.

And where is the CO2 concentration the richest, you ask? At a smoke stack.

Burn Coal.  Make Energy and CO2.  Make Fuel from CO2.  Burn Fuel from CO2.  Make Energy and CO2.  Burn Fuel from CO2.

Or you can process tonnes of air looking for grams of fuel......  Meanwhile the greening of the earth that has been occurring will slow and stop due to inadequate CO2.

:facepalm:

Me? Made from best Ayrshire coal.

 

[Rifleman62]

Here's a thought - apply the technology where it is most cost effective - ie where the CO2 concentration is richest.

Ottawa?

HDHQ, or spread around the country to the many CF HQ's?

 

[Brad Sallows]

More info needed, particularly on energy in vs energy out.  A process running on "renewable" electrical energy sources is meaningless if the energy is being pulled out of the grid (who decides whose consumption is renewable and whose is non-renewable?) rather than produced and consumed on-site.  And we'll be waiting a long time for an on-site producer/consumer to produce meaningful quantities of anything.

 

[Kirkhill]

More info needed, particularly on energy in vs energy out.  A process running on "renewable" electrical energy sources is meaningless if the energy is being pulled out of the grid (who decides whose consumption is renewable and whose is non-renewable?) rather than produced and consumed on-site.  And we'll be waiting a long time for an on-site producer/consumer to produce meaningful quantities of anything.

TANSTAAFL seems to apply....

At least seven companies worldwide are working on the idea. Swiss-based Climeworks has already built a commercial-scale plant.

Carbon capture economics

It costs Climeworks about $600 US a tonne to remove carbon from the atmosphere. Carbon Engineering says it can do the job for between $94 US and $232 US a tonne because it uses technology and components that are well understood and commercially available.

"We're tapping into existing industrial equipment and then defining a new process and applying some unique chemistry to it," said Oldham.

Carbon Engineering's plant in Squamish, B.C., currently pulls about one tonne of carbon a day from the air and produces about two barrels of fuel. Since its components are off the rack, it should be easy to scale up, Oldham said.

"We've bought the smallest scalable unit of each piece of technology we have."

Carbon Engineering's fuel costs about 25 per cent more than gasoline made from oil. Oldham said work is being done to reduce that.

Because the plant currently uses some natural gas, by the time the fuel it produces has been burned it has released a half-tonne of carbon dioxide for every tonne removed from the air.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well, this is interesting.  A BC company claims to be sucking CO2 from the air and creating fuel. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-company-says-it-is-sucking-carbon-from-air-making-fuel-1.4696817

Many a scam has come out of Vancouver, investor beware.

 

[Altair]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/notley-seen-as-political-leader-most-responsible-for-pushing-trans-mountain-pipeline-ahead-new-poll-suggests-1.4733791

A new poll conducted for CBC News suggests 42 per cent of Albertans think Notley is the politician most responsible for pushing the proposed Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion ahead. While a majority of Albertans support the federal government's purchase of Trans Mountain, an equal number remain skeptical about the expansion happening on time.

While the NDP premier gets top billing among Albertans, she shares the credit with other politicians, including Trudeau, who is the pick of 27 per cent of Albertans.

Notley and Trudeau getting some credit for pushing for the pipeline, colour me surprised.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Not surprising at all, once your outside the major Urban centres a whole new reality awaits. 

 

[Loachman]

Yes, well, colour me not surprised for this one:

http://edmontonsun.com/opinion/columnists/gunter-yet-another-sign-trans-mountain-isnt-getting-built-anytime-soon/wcm/379aebea-2a91-42d6-a79e-9da8a17d8eb0

GUNTER: Yet another sign Trans Mountain isn't getting built anytime soon

Lorne Gunter

Published: June 29, 2018

Updated: June 29, 2018 2:48 PM MDT

I’ve maintained all along the Trudeau government doesn’t really want this pipeline built. It just bought it to get pro-development critics off its back.

What they are really doing is holding off construction – and the ugly scenes of violent protest by environmentalists – until after next October’s federal election, when their 18 B.C. MPs are safely back in office.

After that, they can kill the pipeline altogether.

It’s this attitude by the federal government, plus carbon taxes by the feds and provinces, plus new rules on assessing energy megaprojects that make future projects next to impossible, plus higher corporate and personal taxes, plus fanciful beliefs that “green” energies can replace fossil fuels quickly and easily that have contributed to an anti-energy mindset among Canadian decisionmakers.

That mindset prompted Tom Whalen, chief executive officer of the Petroleum Services Association of Canada to tell Bloomberg News this week, “We are kind of dying by our own sword. We are making it very difficult to do business.”

 

[Altair]

Yes, well, colour me not surprised for this one:

http://edmontonsun.com/opinion/columnists/gunter-yet-another-sign-trans-mountain-isnt-getting-built-anytime-soon/wcm/379aebea-2a91-42d6-a79e-9da8a17d8eb0

GUNTER: Yet another sign Trans Mountain isn't getting built anytime soon

Lorne Gunter

Published: June 29, 2018

Updated: June 29, 2018 2:48 PM MDT

I’ve maintained all along the Trudeau government doesn’t really want this pipeline built. It just bought it to get pro-development critics off its back.

What they are really doing is holding off construction – and the ugly scenes of violent protest by environmentalists – until after next October’s federal election, when their 18 B.C. MPs are safely back in office.

After that, they can kill the pipeline altogether.

It’s this attitude by the federal government, plus carbon taxes by the feds and provinces, plus new rules on assessing energy megaprojects that make future projects next to impossible, plus higher corporate and personal taxes, plus fanciful beliefs that “green” energies can replace fossil fuels quickly and easily that have contributed to an anti-energy mindset among Canadian decisionmakers.

That mindset prompted Tom Whalen, chief executive officer of the Petroleum Services Association of Canada to tell Bloomberg News this week, “We are kind of dying by our own sword. We are making it very difficult to do business.”

https://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/braid-while-protesters-dangle-trans-mountain-work-starts-again

You’d have thought $4.5 billion in public funding would ensure an immediate reboot. But this is Canada. There were more delays.

Now we have an answer — work begins in earnest at the end of July on the 290-kilometre stretch of pipeline route between Edmonton and Jasper National Park.

Work is also expected to start in late September in B.C.’s North Thompson region, according to notices issued Tuesday by Trans Mountain.

At this stage, the work is mainly route preparation — clearing, surveying, flagging — the prelude to laying pipe starting in 2019.

Uh huh.

 

[ModlrMike]

Some might say that the government has been laying pipe since Oct 2015...