fraudulent medical??

[pm1234]

Hello, my brother in law has just passed medical and the interview.

He told me in confidence that he hid the fact that he had self-injury cutting scars from the med tech and didn’t specify so on the form.

I’m trying to tell him to come clean but he keeps insisting that it’s “no harm done” and “too late now”. How screwed will he be? He’s gonna get found out eventually, I’m sure?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

When he gets found out, he will be released for what is called an “irregular enrolment”.

 

[medicineman]

When he gets found out, he will be released for what is called an “irregular enrolment”.

Used be Section 117, now Section 122 of the National Defence Act regarding making fraudulent statements for the purpose of enrolment...there used to be that written in bold print at the bottom of the questionnaire you sign that it's an offence to knowingly withhold information or outright lie about the information provided and that if found guilty, subject to up to and including jail and dismissal. When I did recruit medicals, I also made a not so gentle reminder of that when doing a medical and going over the questionnaire. Inevitably, things like this get caught out...the black mark that goes against your name for a release like that basically will follow them around for life, especially if they want to apply for anything requiring a security clearance or a federal civil service job...may want to gently or not so gently point that out to them. They're going to have a hard time hiding scars like that in the swimming pool, gym, shower, etc.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . They're going to have a hard time hiding scars like that in the swimming pool, gym, shower, etc.

Ohh, for the days when there was little hidden when doing recruit medicals.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Ohh, for the days when there was little hidden when doing recruit medicals.

View attachment 101347

PO2(ret) James Wilks enters the chat

 

[dapaterson]

PO2(ret) James Wilks enters the chat

Depends on his release item. If it was 1 or 2 then, per QR&O 15.09 he's not permitted to use rank / retired.

QR&O: Volume I - Chapter 15 Release - Canada.ca

Queen's Regulations and Orders - QR&O - Chapter 15 - Release

www.canada.ca

 

[Jarnhamar]

Depends on his release item. If it was 1 or 2 then, per QR&O 15.09 he's not permitted to use rank / retired.

QR&O: Volume I - Chapter 15 Release - Canada.ca

Queen's Regulations and Orders - QR&O - Chapter 15 - Release

www.canada.ca

I had no idea, thank you.

 

[dapaterson]

I had no idea, thank you.

Not a lot of places where regulations spell out impacts of honourable vs dishonourable releases... but there's one at least.

 

[medicineman]

Ohh, for the days when there was little hidden when doing recruit medicals.

View attachment 101347

Yes indeed...but was usually an MD or an actual MO doing the enrolment medical as well.l

PO2(ret) James Wilks enters the chat

He's definitely a reason why we were restricted in what we could do/see for a medical if a non-doc was doing them. When I was in CFRC Vic/Van, most was the applicant was allowed to go down to was gym shorts and t-shirt, as it were only us PA's doing them. I think that in most provinces now that could be relaxed a bit, as we're largely licensed/regulated health professionals these days, so have a lot more riding on that sort of thing...and especially with some of the folks I've examined over the years, retrospectively, should definitely have asked a chaperone with me, regardless of gender, given the number of people I encountered with some serious mental health issues.

 

[pm1234]

Used be Section 117, now Section 122 of the National Defence Act regarding making fraudulent statements for the purpose of enrolment...there used to be that written in bold print at the bottom of the questionnaire you sign that it's an offence to knowingly withhold information or outright lie about the information provided and that if found guilty, subject to up to and including jail and dismissal. When I did recruit medicals, I also made a not so gentle reminder of that when doing a medical and going over the questionnaire. Inevitably, things like this get caught out...the black mark that goes against your name for a release like that basically will follow them around for life, especially if they want to apply for anything requiring a security clearance or a federal civil service job...may want to gently or not so gently point that out to them. They're going to have a hard time hiding scars like that in the swimming pool, gym, shower, etc.

I showed him the whole thread including this response... he was dismissive and said he'll just wear concealing long-sleeve clothes. I don't have any faith in him anymore.. I just hope he doesn't get found out and have to face the consequences of his actions.

 

[PuckChaser]

I showed him the whole thread including this response... he was dismissive and said he'll just wear concealing long-sleeve clothes. I don't have any faith in him anymore.. I just hope he doesn't get found out and have to face the consequences of his actions.

Its not the scars. Its the inevitable mental health issues that he's concealed that will bubble to the surface when he's faced with likely the most stressful environment change in his life. It will eventually come to light and he can kiss a 3B medical release goodbye.

 

[pm1234]

Its not the scars. Its the inevitable mental health issues that he's concealed that will bubble to the surface when he's faced with likely the most stressful environment change in his life. It will eventually come to light and he can kiss a 3B medical release goodbye.

yeah that's a big one. I told him in no soft manner that he has to prove to himself that when he gets the c7, he won't turn it on himself. just out of curiousity, when/where/how do you think he'll be found out?

 

[PuckChaser]

yeah that's a big one. I told him in no soft manner that he has to prove to himself that when he gets the c7, he won't turn it on himself. just out of curiousity, when/where/how do you think he'll be found out?

Its impossible to know. Stress effects everyone differently. If he starts cutting again at BMQ its group accomodations and he'll be found out really quickly. The Mega isn't a place you get to hide and have personal time. Honestly he's down a path now where had he disclosed the issues he would have had to see a psychologist before enrollment and could have been declared fit. Now its been concealed so he will never be able to say the CAF caused mental health issues.

 

[Jarnhamar]

just out of curiousity, when/where/how do you think he'll be found out?

 

[pm1234]

View attachment 101354

I'm on the phone with him right now. I sent him the thread but apparently he's too good for this forum.

 

[medicineman]

Its not the scars. Its the inevitable mental health issues that he's concealed that will bubble to the surface when he's faced with likely the most stressful environment change in his life. It will eventually come to light and he can kiss a 3B medical release goodbye.

This...and everyone reacts to stress differently. Cutting isn't what one would normally describe as a reasonable coping mechanism to stress...and there's often a lot of underlying other things that have gone on/are going on.

I showed him the whole thread including this response... he was dismissive and said he'll just wear concealing long-sleeve clothes. I don't have any faith in him anymore.. I just hope he doesn't get found out and have to face the consequences of his actions.

He won't often get to choose when he's wearing long or short sleeves...swim trunks, T-SHirts for PT, etc will be the ordered dress of the day or activity. Being this dismissive and evasive is kind of predictive of how things are going to go in training, as apparently they think rules don't apply to them.