FREE College Education through the CF!

[Journeyman]

For what it's worth (free opinions being well worth their price)....

I'm OK with people being motivated to join because of education benefits. Same for people who join because they want to travel, fight oppression, be a ninja-sniper, or they're one step ahead of the juvenile authorities.

The more people who experience the CF, the better Canada and the CF will be for it. Yes, I know, not all CF experiences are golden. And not all recruits' perceptions of what they hope to get out of the CF are valid either. It will all balance out, and they will most likely be better people for the experience - - whether they join for individually mercenary reasons, or to fulfill more idealistic ambitions. And if they find the CF is as good a career as many of us here believe it to be, they will stay on and contribute, regardless of their initial motivation.

 

[armychickenlittle]

HAH!  Good one!  But I can attest to the fact that Pl WOs have mothers who love them, I was one, and my mom loves me!

 

[GO!!!]

I'm in the "who cares about their reasons" camp.

I've found that there is little difference between the soldiering ability of lifers who joined for queen and country, BC hippies who thought the army "would be a trip", and the guy who had failed in his chosen profession, and the army was plan B.

All of the above have equal potential to excel, and to fail. If they choose to leave after fulfilling their contractual obligations, I have no problem whatsoever with them - they all served honorably, having joined - and released - for their own reasons.

I think it is pretty hollow to decry the "mercenary motives" of anyone who joins the CF for education. Nobody in uniform does this job for free - myself included. Some of us are going to school full time on the CFs dime - while criticising someone elses' potential motives for joining.

If the CF thought that the OPS was too short, they'd change it.

 

[battleaxe]

If you do not choose the civilian college option, the most common way to do your trg is exactly what you will be doing, the POET trg in Kingston, then the trade trg right after.

Just curious.  Do recruits have a choice?  Do they have to apply for these programs themselves-or are the courses set up by the military in conjunction with the colleges- and then whole classes/serials put through after recruitment and basic have taken place. 

When I posted at the beginning of this thread I was unaware, armychickenlittle, that you were a recruiter. Limitations of electronic conversations, I guess.  I entered with a cautionary tone because I (mistakenly) read the initial post as coming from someone who-although obviously having done their homework- felt they had “hit the jackpot” and was spreading the news of this free education-with the part about owing time as an afterthought.
I followed up some time later, stating that I agree with the educational benefits the CF offers-and have actually taken advantage of them myself. 
Having read the posts since then, I can see that my hesitation was based on idealism that is not very realistic.  It would be nice to think that all people join for a more noble reason than a free education-but we can’t hold back on offering these great opportunities because some turn out to be motivated by only personal reasons.  We can’t let a few bad apples spoil the pie for those who will turn out to be dedicated CF personnel and great leaders.
The thing that I like most about these programs-those focused on educating military personnel in civilian institutions-is that it reduces the confusion about qualifications when military personnel do release or retire.  There are still issues with military quals not being accepted easily for civilian employment.  A college certificate-or a university degree-cuts down on the confusion/paperwork on equivalencies surrounding re-employment at the end of one’s military career

 

[GAP]

Question: My son who is working for Timmies in Kandahar wants to know if these same benefits apply to Reserves, which he intends to join when he gets back....

 

[George Wallace]

Question: My son who is working for Timmies in Kandahar wants to know if these same benefits apply to Reserves, which he intends to join when he gets back....

There is a program for the Reserves.  He'll have to submit his curiculum for approval, and on completion of his year, he can be reimbursed up to $2000.  He will have to do this for each year of studies he does towards a Degree or Deploma.  For more accurate and up to date info he'll have to visit the Unit (whichever he joins) OR and get the paperwork to fill out.

One has to remember that some of these programs are changed on short notice. 

I was told at my SCAN Seminar in Oct 2004 that I would be able to claim education, and that I would have accumulated $2000 for each year of Service that I could draw from.  In Dec 2004 that was scrapped, leaving a lot of guys on Release with 'jack'.  New plans and assistance have come out.  The Reserves are helping their Reservists pay their college tuitions, but not paying 100%. 

A RMS Clerk would be best to clairify exactly what entitlements are available.

 

[Klc]

Just curious.  Do recruits have a choice?  Do they have to apply for these programs themselves-or are the courses set up by the military in conjunction with the colleges- and then whole classes/serials put through after recruitment and basic have taken place. 

I also wonder this, as I got my offer a few weeks ago for LCIS, and as far as I was told, my training would be the POET route. There was no mention of any possibility for civvie training.

Of course, when I was applying, they told me about this great program - but they implied it only was for naval engineering tech's. And as sweet as it sounded, I like to have my feet planted firmly on Terra Firma whenever possible.

 

[284_226]

I also wonder this, as I got my offer a few weeks ago for LCIS, and as far as I was told, my training would be the POET route. There was no mention of any possibility for civvie training.

Of course, when I was applying, they told me about this great program - but they implied it only was for naval engineering tech's. And as sweet as it sounded, I like to have my feet planted firmly on Terra Firma whenever possible.

To address your first point, there are two different entry streams into these trades.  The first is QL3 academic/apprentice training for the Naval types, and POET/QL3 for the others; and NCM-SEP, which is both a recruiting program as well as being open to serving members.

Details of NCM-SEP can be found here:  http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/instructions/engraph/0203_admhrmil_e.asp.  You can find details on how to apply to the program as both a civilian or as a serving member there, as well as a list of qualifying/approved educational institutions for each associated trade.

The information is reasonably up to date, because ATIS has been removed from the program (we're overborne right now).

To address your second point, it's obviously not just for Naval Engineering Techs.  It is indeed open to LCIS techs, Vehicle techs, AVS techs, and FCS techs.  That said, it's NOT open to members who are already in the training stream for the other distressed trades.

 

[GAP]

A RMS Clerk would be best to clairify exactly what entitlements are available.

Thanks, I will tell him....your advice gives an excellent snapshot of probable expectations, and also forwarns him that he should expect changes. Not much is going to happen until he gets back in March, unless he does something during his HLTA in early Jan (which I doubt)

 

[284_226]

Thanks, I will tell him....your advice gives an excellent snapshot of probable expectations, and also forwarns him that he should expect changes. Not much is going to happen until he gets back in March, unless he does something during his HLTA in early Jan (which I doubt)

You can find the exact details of the P Res Education Reimbursement program at http://www.cda-acd.forces.gc.ca/dlm/engraph/services/er/programmes/pres_e.asp.

The reimbursement amount for the P Res is 50% of education expenses, to a maximum of $2000 reimbursement per year, and a total reimbursement of $8000 for all reserve force service.  For example, if tuition costs $3000 for the academic year, you can only submit a claim for $1500 of reimbursement for that particular year.

The Reg F ER and P Res ER programs aren't likely to change anytime soon - a lot of work went into creating them in preparation for the demise of the PEP program.

I'd advise that he put the wheels in motion to have his Individual Learning Plan (ILP) submitted ASAP.  The folks at CDA in Kingston handle a lot of applications/claims, and it's not a quick process.

 

[armychickenlittle]

To answer the question about whether recruits have a choice, the applicant decides the trade(s) they want to go for, and ideally, if the trade they want is available through NCM SEP (civilian college-based training), the recruiter will advise them of this option. I say ideally because we admittedly have dropped the ball here. For some reason (and I'm not painting all recruiters with the same brush, I'm probably more likely pointing a finger at myself here more than anything) this program has not gotten the airplay it deserves. Which is why I came to this website and posted my initial comment in the first place.  If the applicant isn't advised that the program exists, how can they make an informed decision?  We get applications in the thousands for our university program, but barely a handful for the college program, largely because people don't know about it. So tell a friend. Tell an enemy. Tell a stranger.

 

[sigpig]

My son is currently in grade 10 down here in south Florida. Does anyone know what he would have to do to apply for such a program as this when the time comes? Both my wife and I are former military and he has some interest in the field. I don't want him joining the American military, but I'm unsure how he could go about applying to the CF while living down here.

 

[armychickenlittle]

Does he have Canadian citizenship?  It's a requirement (at this time) to apply to the CF. All he would have to do is (to keep his options open, both university and college) keep his marks up (say, about a 75% avg or better), stay in academic courses, stay out of trouble (stating the obvious here but some kids do need to see it in print!) and try to be involved in extra-curricular stuff like sports or clubs.  All this helps to present the well-rounded applicant, which will help him come out on top in any competition.  If you like, send me a personal note and I'll be glad to forward my work contact info so I can better address your specific concerns.

 

[sigpig]

Yes he's Canadian with A's (mostly) and B's for grades and involved with the school swim team and boxing on his own. My question was more along the lines of how he can apply for such things while living down here. Going back and forth to a Canadian based recruiting office isn't practical. Does anyone know if you can do this kind of thing through a consulate or not?

 

[armychickenlittle]

He can mail in his application and a photocopy of his birth certificate, but when the time comes for him to do his aptitude test, medical and interview, he would have to get himself to the nearest recruiting centre.  We would only reimburse him for expenses from the nearest airport, and we would put him up in a hotel for two nights, the night before processing and the night of processing. Flights are his own expense. We have processed countless applicants whose parents are posted overseas, and this is the way it's done. 

 

[sigpig]

Thanks. I take it you are in recruiting? Although that must be a secret as your profile is empty 

 

[old man neri]

Another thing your son may wish to look at is what are the requirements for an American student to apply to a Canadian school if he is planning on doing ROTP or RMC. It is probably an easy thing to do however one would not want any surprises.

 

[armychickenlittle]

Yes, I'm a recruiter.  I'm new to this site so I haven't added info to my profile yet.  By the way, Americans cannot apply for this program unless they also hold Cdn citizenship.

 

[inkedchick]

I was curious as to what college programs are available for subsidised education. Is it the only ones you mentioned at the beginning or this post? or are there others? Anyone got a link that may help me? It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Inked

 

[armychickenlittle]

There are a number of colleges across Canada at which you can study one of several programs leading to employment in that trade in the CF. Without my reference here, I'm going to wing it:  Just to name a few, the Electronics Engineering Technician program can be taken at Algonquin College leading to employment as a Land Communications and Information  Systems Technician, Aerospace Communications and Information Systems Technician, Naval Electronics Technician (Acoustic, Communications or Tactical), Electronics-Optronics Technician (formerly known as Fire Control Systems Tech), some colleges offer a two-year mechanic's program leading to employment as a Vechicle Technician (again, Algonquin is only one of a handful here), the Marine Institute in St John's, Newfoundland offers a handful of Navy trades programs like Marine Systems Engineering and Naval Weapons Technician just to name two. I just took a quick look on the CF Recruiting website (www.forces.ca) and didn't find a list of approved schools, but if you want to contact me at work, I'll be back on 2 Jan 07. If you want to call a Recruiter now, the # is 1-800-856-8488. My work email is [email protected] and my direct # is 613-944-7428.