Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Humphrey Bogart]

My numbers are totally fine since Sloly said all officers are working full time with no time off, so doing 12 hour shifts. My numbers also take into account half of the officers on duty and half officers away elsewhere on calls in town and also including all the extra OPP and RCMP officers that were sent.

Do the math, there are a minimum of 300 officers available to take care of the protest downtown. Crime did not magically go up in Ottawa that they somehow need hundreds of extra officers patrolling the city. The OPS have been virtually invisible downtown and in surrounding neighborhoods.

For Ottawa, there is only one major protest and it is happening on Rideau street in front of Parliament. The other staging areas are way too far away from anything, especially Coventry. Like I previously said, during the week, it's mostly the hardcore protesters that are left downtown, at most 300-400. Even if they start going block by block in force, arresting protesters and putting them on buses, this will not take too long to resolve. A coordinated force will have no issues dispersing this crowd at night.

What is moving police resources around the province have anything to do with anything? RCMP just flew hundreds of officers to BC to enforce an injunctions against indigenous protesters with no issues, so I don't see what the problem is here? There are already hundreds of extra officers that were sent to augment the OPS. This can be dealt with in one night. Once you show that there are real consequences to actions and that force would be used against illegally occupying streets in Ottawa, most protesters will not come back. It is an easy solution, there needs to be a show of force and let the protesters know that there are consequences with disregarding the law. Right now, they are emboldened because there have been no repercussions to their actions so they just keep pushing the envelope to see how far they can go.

If it could have been dealt with in one night it would have been

 

[Remius]

As a citizen of Ottawa I disagree, the OPS made a mistake in assuming the protesters would fizzle out after a weekend, since then they have done what they can based on their numbers, and the need for resources to be sent elsewhere.

The Chief made it clear early on that the OPS didn't have the staff to deal with this problem. Getting upset at the OPS now, after years of cuts, and mismanagement is like complaining that your $10 fire extinguisher wasn't up to the task of putting out a 3 alarm fire.

Years of cuts? The police budget has not been cut. They don’t always get the increase they want but budgets have not been cut in a long time.

 

[Remius]

Lets look at your facts then shall we:

Ottawa Police are a Municipal Police Force, on top of this Freedom Convoy, they are still required to maintain service elsewhere. So there are competing demands for their service, many competing demands.

Your numbers assume that every Police Officer is working at all times. We know that this is impossible, well at least I hope you would know seeing as how your Military and you should realize that isn't sustainable.

Then you've also got the fact that if you paid attention to sources other than the cameras pointing at the very high profile spectacle happening on Parliament Hill, you would know that the protesters are actually dispersed and there are multiple camps all around the city.

You've also vastly overstated the capabilities of the Police Forces to deal with these protests as there are so many happening right now and there are only so many public order units aka (the professionals) to deal with these incidents.

While every single public order unit in Ontario was busy trying to deal with the Ambassador Bridge Blockade, copy cat protests were springing up elswhere, like Cornwall for instance. Cornwall and Ottawa are both around 8 hours from Windsor so once the Cops are finished there they will need to be moved, this requires planning and resources.

You can already see that the protests have stretched resources thin and I'm sorry but the cupboards are bare.

If you think there is an easy solution to this, keep thinking that but it's just not true.

The Oka Crisis lasted for 3 months and that was after the Army Mobilized. The size of that event pales in comparison to what we are seeing here.

Are you suggesting then that the Army is now the solution? Because you just made a strong case for that.

 

[Remius]

The best time to move in on protesters/rioters/occupiers is around 0300hrs when most people are away or sleeping, especially reporters

And wait until a Monday or Tuesday. During the week the crowds are not at all like the weekend. Plus there are less kids. Still some kids but at some points if they keep bringing kids they will likely get caught up in this.

 

[Remius]

Bingo!

This is the ADM of CSE and he is having a meltdown on Twitter. Doesn't seem like someone I want in charge of my National Security when SHTF.

I would hardly call that a meltdown.

And he’s not THE adm of CSE. There is no such thing.

he’s the Assistant Deputy Minister and Senior Advisor for People, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion. So you can rest easy. He’s not in charge of national security when SHTF.

That being said. It’s not cool to post that sort of thing while identifying with that org.

 

[lenaitch]

The best time to move in on protesters/rioters/occupiers is around 0300hrs when most people are away or sleeping, especially reporters

Good idea from the perspective of lower numbers, physiological ebb (circadian rhythm and all that). Really bad idea in terms of visibility, sight lines, lighting, etc. if it turns into a melee. There is much greater potential for people to react to what they think they see.

 

[Remius]

Arrests made in windsor

https://twitter.com/x/status/1492846129016356869

 

[lenaitch]

My numbers are totally fine since Sloly said all officers are working full time with no time off, so doing 12 hour shifts. My numbers also take into account half of the officers on duty and half officers away elsewhere on calls in town and also including all the extra OPP and RCMP officers that were sent.

Do the math, there are a minimum of 300 officers available to take care of the protest downtown. Crime did not magically go up in Ottawa that they somehow need hundreds of extra officers patrolling the city. The OPS have been virtually invisible downtown and in surrounding neighborhoods.

For Ottawa, there is only one major protest and it is happening on Rideau street in front of Parliament. The other staging areas are way too far away from anything, especially Coventry. Like I previously said, during the week, it's mostly the hardcore protesters that are left downtown, at most 300-400. Even if they start going block by block in force, arresting protesters and putting them on buses, this will not take too long to resolve. A coordinated force will have no issues dispersing this crowd at night.

What is moving police resources around the province have anything to do with anything? RCMP just flew hundreds of officers to BC to enforce an injunctions against indigenous protesters with no issues, so I don't see what the problem is here? There are already hundreds of extra officers that were sent to augment the OPS. This can be dealt with in one night. Once you show that there are real consequences to actions and that force would be used against illegally occupying streets in Ottawa, most protesters will not come back. It is an easy solution, there needs to be a show of force and let the protesters know that there are consequences with disregarding the law. Right now, they are emboldened because there have been no repercussions to their actions so they just keep pushing the envelope to see how far they can go.

I'm not going to argue your numbers; I'm not there, but I'm just watching the events in Windsor. They are currently clearing another stretch of Huron Church Rd. A relatively unencumbered area with defined boundaries and concrete barricades (set up yesterday). There are, in my estimation only, well over a hundred police officers just what I can see. There have been some arrests - each consuming several officers. "Put them on buses" - okay, several more officers. Anyone arrested has to be processed.

Some folks might want to dismiss children getting caught up in any public order action; I can assure you the police would not.

Ottawa is roughly 4x the area of Toronto with, what, 35% of the population and about very roughly 35% of size of police service. Chief Sloly says he can't get the extra numbers to do what he needs to do. Windsor, which started much later, seems to have been able to amass what they need rather quickly. Curious. There are only so many tactical and POUs around. I'd have more faith in the Chief's tactical leadership if the OPS and partners were able to occupy or hold one single area of the city; maybe the War Memorial, don't know - pick one.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Personal opinion:

I think almost everyone wants the same things:

1. To maintain Canadians' hard-won freedom to protest and say rude things to and about the government ~ without infringing on the rights and freedoms of others; and

2. To being these blockades and occupations to an end without anyone being injured.

I think Ottawa Police Chief Sloly has been trying to do both. How well he has managed and how much better (or worse) he might have done is open for debate ... but not by me because I have nothing useful to offer.

 

[Remius]

I'm not going to argue your numbers; I'm not there, but I'm just watching the events in Windsor. They are currently clearing another stretch of Huron Church Rd. A relatively unencumbered area with defined boundaries and concrete barricades (set up yesterday). There are, in my estimation only, well over a hundred police officers just what I can see. There have been some arrests - each consuming several officers. "Put them on buses" - okay, several more officers. Anyone arrested has to be processed.

Some folks might want to dismiss children getting caught up in any public order action; I can assure you the police would not.

Ottawa is roughly 4x the area of Toronto with, what, 35% of the population and about very roughly 35% of size of police service. Chief Sloly says he can't get the extra numbers to do what he needs to do. Windsor, which started much later, seems to have been able to amass what they need rather quickly. Curious. There are only so many tactical and POUs around. I'd have more faith in the Chief's tactical leadership if the OPS and partners were able to occupy or hold one single area of the city; maybe the War Memorial, don't know - pick one.

That’s the part I don’t quite get. They could in theory occupy various spaces and hold. Heck even near their re supply areas that are well known.

I don’t know but the city is rapidly losing whatever confidence they have in him.

 

[kev994]

I'm not going to argue your numbers; I'm not there, but I'm just watching the events in Windsor. They are currently clearing another stretch of Huron Church Rd. A relatively unencumbered area with defined boundaries and concrete barricades (set up yesterday). There are, in my estimation only, well over a hundred police officers just what I can see. There have been some arrests - each consuming several officers. "Put them on buses" - okay, several more officers. Anyone arrested has to be processed.

Some folks might want to dismiss children getting caught up in any public order action; I can assure you the police would not.

Ottawa is roughly 4x the area of Toronto with, what, 35% of the population and about very roughly 35% of size of police service. Chief Sloly says he can't get the extra numbers to do what he needs to do. Windsor, which started much later, seems to have been able to amass what they need rather quickly. Curious. There are only so many tactical and POUs around. I'd have more faith in the Chief's tactical leadership if the OPS and partners were able to occupy or hold one single area of the city; maybe the War Memorial, don't know - pick one.

There are a bunch of cities near Windsor that have their own police forces; I saw some London Police toques on the Windsor videos. I don’t think Ottawa has that luxury. Also, Ottawa isn’t blocking international trade, they’re just annoying.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I would hardly call that a meltdown.

And he’s not THE adm of CSE. There is no such thing.

he’s the Assistant Deputy Minister and Senior Advisor for People, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion. So you can rest easy. He’s not in charge of national security when SHTF.

That being said. It’s not cool to post that sort of thing while identifying with that org.

I know he's not the Chief of CSE, that was a typo, and I know what ADMs do. That being said, and you can read his linkedin profile:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ca.linkedin.com/in/artur-wilczynski-3a033498&ved=2ahUKEwilmrK5gf31AhUhCTQIHdnwDD8QFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0sFlx0-JEY3cellz4EkX2r

He sure sounds like an expert, getting in twitter war with Randy Hillier.

 

[Altair]

Looks like the Windsor police have finished clearing the bridge.

RIP all the protestors who were killed and maimed by the police during this skull cracking operation.

 

[Remius]

I know he's not the Chief of CSE, that was a typo, and I know what ADMs do. That being said, and you can read his linkedin profile:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ca.linkedin.com/in/artur-wilczynski-3a033498&ved=2ahUKEwilmrK5gf31AhUhCTQIHdnwDD8QFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0sFlx0-JEY3cellz4EkX2r

He sure sounds like an expert, getting in twitter war with Randy Hillier.

Anyone getting into any conversation with Randy Hillier is going to sound like an expert by comparison.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Looks like the Windsor police have finished clearing the bridge.

RIP all the protestors who were killed and maimed by the police during this skull cracking operation.

Did it turn violent ?

 

[Gunnar]

Did it turn violent ?

I think he just forgot his </sarcasm> tags

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Anyone getting into any conversation with Randy Hillier is going to sound like an expert by comparison.

That's pretty funny and true.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Because the Americans are now all over this, here is Bill Maher's take.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1492364416997801990

Bill Maher Says “Freedom Convoy” Is About More Than Just Vaccines On HBO’s ‘Real Time’

“We need more social distancing between capitalism and democracy,” said panelist Vivek Ramaswamy.

decider.com

Great clip. To paraphrase, our Prime minister thinks there are Canadian citizens takeing up space due to unacceptable views so we need to make a make a choice whether we tolerate these people or not.

I don't recall hearing anything of the sort from him when discussing bringing ISIS members back to Canada. People who were sawing heads off women and children, or feeding pieces of babies to starving mothers for a joke.

 

[Good2Golf]

No need to look here, completely normal for an Assistant Deputy Minister in the intelligence community to condemn the Ottawa Police.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1492690798147735553

Consistent with GoC Gaslighting Policy…at least the ADM is

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Great clip. To paraphrase, our Prime minister thinks there are Canadian citizens takeing up space due to unacceptable views so we need to make a make a choice whether we tolerate these people or not.

I don't recall hearing anything of the sort from him when discussing bringing ISIS members back to Canada. People who were sawing heads off women and children, or feeding pieces of babies to starving mothers for a joke.

The language the Prime Minister has been using is so bloody divisive and Bill is right, he does sound like Hitler.