Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Haggis]

I would think that the Feds would take their cue from the provinces in that regard. But yes, the Feds didn’t really communicate very well, even when this started.

We were told that TB will drop the federal mask mandate once all provinces have permanently dropped theirs, likely no sooner than June. The House of Commons announced that their mask mandate will remain in place until the House rises for the summer on June 23rd.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The issue is they wanted a seat at the table of the coalition that would have replaced the government.

At one point the protest (early in the protest), it went from lawful to unlawful. It crossed the line and went from protest to some form of extortion exercise.

Considering most protest groups that is what they are demanding (BLM and such for police councils and oversight, Natives for forcing the government to negotiate with them/force control over land, etc.), again what is the cause of alarm?

I am not surprised also considering that they mainly are made up of at least the 5% which voted for the PPC and were disenfranchised by our current democratic system.

When a democratic system fails to represent their constituents, it loses legitimacy in the eyes of those disenfranchised. The fact they fail to understand how our democracy works is a whole other issue.

Still haven’t convinced me the Emergencies act was anywhere near justified in this process. The provinces still had cards in their decks to deal with this, they chose not to use them.

 

[QV]

I was perhaps being obtuse in my reply. For that I apologize.

The two realities that I referred to were a) the reality that you encountered, and b) the reality that the governments at various levels encountered.

And one could ascribe your quote "They executed their tantrum with all the grace and efficacy of a young, screaming child" to both the protestors and the gov'ts.

0.02

I suggest the government got to that stage far quicker. The protestors wanted to be heard and the federal government kicked things off with saying they don't listen to racists/misogynist filth with unacceptable views etc. Of course that approach will escalate things.

 

[QV]

We were told that TB will drop the federal mask mandate once all provinces have permanently dropped theirs, likely no sooner than June. The House of Commons announced that their mask mandate will remain in place until the House rises for the summer on June 23rd.

So even if one province keeps masking even part time, the TB will carry on as well?

 

[Haggis]

So even if one province keeps masking even part time, the TB will carry on as well?

Good question. As always, the federal direction is ambiguous. My understanding was that discretionary provincial mask policies would not impact federal employees.

 

[Remius]

Considering most protest groups that is what they are demanding (BLM and such for police councils and oversight, Natives for forcing the government to negotiate with them/force control over land, etc.), again what is the cause of alarm?

I am not surprised also considering that they mainly are made up of at least the 5% which voted for the PPC and were disenfranchised by our current democratic system.

When a democratic system fails to represent their constituents, it loses legitimacy in the eyes of those disenfranchised. The fact they fail to understand how our democracy works is a whole other issue.

Still haven’t convinced me the Emergencies act was anywhere near justified in this process. The provinces still had cards in their decks to deal with this, they chose not to use them.

You’ll get no argument from me about the EA.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Yup. And then for police to do anything with the financial information in terms of investigating to lay charges, there are considerable due process safeguards, particularly the need to get authorization from the court to obtain and access records that would otherwise violate someone’s privacy, whether by production order or search warrant. There are a lot of protections of an individual’s rights in place.

Very true. My wife works for a Bank and Banks are very sensitive towards people's privacy. Violating it is a pretty good cause to get fired.

Police will come to a Bank and ask for something, the first word of the Bank's mouth will usually be, "got a warrant?".

It works the same way for people's personal finances. My wife has dealt with some pretty messy shit WRT divorces, people fighting over money, etc.

The Bank has fiduciary obligations to their clients and if something isn't in a client's best interest, they won't act on it, even with a lawyer saying they have to.

 

[McG]

I am not surprised also considering that they mainly are made up of at least the 5% which voted for the PPC and were disenfranchised by our current democratic system.

When a democratic system fails to represent their constituents, it loses legitimacy in the eyes of those disenfranchised. The fact they fail to understand how our democracy works is a whole other issue.

Had they recognized the source of their grievance (disenfranchisement) as opposed to a symptom (masks), they might have been able to draw out more support from across the political spectrum. Then again, there were probably a lot of participants in the protests and occupation who would not have believed that what they really wanted was electoral reform, so they might not have showed to a protest that actually addressed the cause of their concern.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Had they recognized the source of their grievance (disenfranchisement) as opposed to a symptom (masks), they might have been able to draw out more support from across the political spectrum. Then again, there were probably a lot of participants in the protests and occupation who would not have believed that what they really wanted was electoral reform, so they might not have showed to a protest that actually addressed the cause of their concern.

That is one cause, arguably the largest (though they didn’t see it as such). The masks, mandates, and other restrictions on citizens rights is a legitimate reason to be angry as well.

Coupled with a government which is hell bent on pushing through its policies, many of which are questionable as to its effectiveness (firearms being a simple example), you end up with a disenfranchised angry minority.

I am shocked anyone showed up to protest, its the middle of winter in Canada. We don’t really protest much to begin with, and almost never in the winter.

 

[QV]

Very true. My wife works for a Bank and Banks are very sensitive towards people's privacy. Violating it is a pretty good cause to get fired.

Police will come to a Bank and ask for something, the first word of the Bank's mouth will usually be, "got a warrant?".

It works the same way for people's personal finances. My wife has dealt with some pretty messy shit WRT divorces, people fighting over money, etc.

The Bank has fiduciary obligations to their clients and if something isn't in a client's best interest, they won't act on it, even with a lawyer saying they have to.

Except for the convoy protesters after the EA was invoked.

 

[brihard]

Very true. My wife works for a Bank and Banks are very sensitive towards people's privacy. Violating it is a pretty good cause to get fired.

Police will come to a Bank and ask for something, the first word of the Bank's mouth will usually be, "got a warrant?".

It works the same way for people's personal finances. My wife has dealt with some pretty messy shit WRT divorces, people fighting over money, etc.

The Bank has fiduciary obligations to their clients and if something isn't in a client's best interest, they won't act on it, even with a lawyer saying they have to.

That’s not precisely accurate.

Generally we’ll serve them a production order, not a warrant. Tough to go in and physically search a bank and come out with records you’re seeking. A production order compels a third party who possesses records and who is not a suspect themselves to hand those records over. A Justice of the Peace must be convinced by a police officer that there’s reasonable grounds to believe the bank possesses specific records that will afford evidence of an offence.

Banks do a number of things that may not be in the clients’ best interests, because the law/lawyers say they have to. Banks are subject to numerous laws, in particular the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act (PCMLFTA). This is the act that empowers FINTRAC. Banks are one of a number of entities who have to report suspicious transactions, or transactions over a specific threshold, to FINTRAC. This might end up shared with police. If a customer is laundering money it’s definitely not in their best interest for the bank to report that, but the bank will generally still do so- if they notice the suspicious activity. Sheer volume of banking activity means they often don’t until we start sniffing and they discover a customer may be dirty.

So yes, banks guard customer privacy fiercely- but will also obey the law.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

That’s not precisely accurate.

Generally we’ll serve them a production order, not a warrant. Tough to go in and physically search a bank and come out with records you’re seeking. A production order compels a third party who possesses records and who is not a suspect themselves to hand those records over. A Justice of the Peace must be convinced by a police officer that there’s reasonable grounds to believe the bank possesses specific records that will afford evidence of an offence.

Banks do a number of things that may not be in the clients’ best interests, because the law/lawyers say they have to. Banks are subject to numerous laws, in particular the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act (PCMLFTA). This is the act that empowers FINTRAC. Banks are one of a number of entities who have to report suspicious transactions, or transactions over a specific threshold, to FINTRAC. This might end up shared with police. If a customer is laundering money it’s definitely not in their best interest for the bank to report that, but the bank will generally still do so- if they notice the suspicious activity. Sheer volume of banking activity means they often don’t until we start sniffing and they discover a customer may be dirty.

So yes, banks guard customer privacy fiercely- but will also obey the law.

Informative and thanks for correcting my terminology.

 

[Jarnhamar]

So yes, banks guard customer privacy fiercely- but will also obey the law.

Was it out of place for police to give banks information on when people were arrested or what they were arrested for? Or the other info they provided banks about some members?

 

[brihard]

Was it out of place for police to give banks information on when people were arrested or what they were arrested for? Or the other info they provided banks about some members?

I’m not up to speed on specifically what information was shared by police and what the criteria was, I’ve been too jammed up with other things to follow that part closely, sorry. Only bit I’d really read on was the banks seemingly assembling their own lists based on OSINT and the GiveSendGo hack and acting on that.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Ottawa police and Tow trucks

Ottawa police officers charged in tow-truck kickback scheme resign from force​

Two Ottawa police officers charged with corruption offences in a tow-truck kickback scheme have resigned as police officers and have had all but one of their criminal charges stayed by a Crown prosecutor.

Constables Andrew Chronopoulos and Kevin Putinski appeared in court Friday afternoon for the resolution to their criminal case and the end of their short careers as police officers. Both have been suspended with pay since April 2020 when they were first charged by the RCMP's anti-corruption unit in a nearly yearlong probe.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I’m not up to speed on specifically what information was shared by police and what the criteria was, I’ve been too jammed up with other things to follow that part closely, sorry.

All good dude.

I've found an article that said

The lists of protesters given to banks included personal details from the police database, such as whether protesters had been suspected of other crimes, had witnessed crimes or had other "dealings" with the police, as well as personal information such as age and height.

That just seemed strange info to provide banks about their clients.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Ottawa police and Tow trucks

Ottawa police officers charged in tow-truck kickback scheme resign from force​

Chronopoulos must have got hired purely based on his CAF cred LOL:


Guy looks like an absolute boy scout in this photo LOL. Didn't think you were allowed to wear CAF skill badges not on a CAF uniform

 

[brihard]

Chronopoulos must have got hired purely based on his CAF cred LOL:

View attachment 69435
Guy looks like an absolute boy scout in this photo LOL. Didn't think you were allowed to wear CAF skill badges not on a CAF uniform

I’ve seen several members of OPS wearing a few different skill badges.

I was super disappointed when Chrono got caught up in this stupid bullshit. $100k a year job plus OT and you take bribes from tow trucks? Friggin’ pathetic.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I’ve seen several members of OPS wearing a few different skill badges.

I was super disappointed when Chrono got caught up in this stupid bullshit. $100k a year job plus OT and you take bribes from tow trucks? Friggin’ pathetic.

Honestly, nothing surprises me anymore. Especially re: money. Some people are never satisfied and will do anything to get it.

I am more surprised at how little he was making to piss it all away.

What I am surprised about is how you get a "stay of proceedings" in exchange for resigning from your job? When has your employment ever had anything to do with it?

 

[daftandbarmy]

I’ve seen several members of OPS wearing a few different skill badges.

I was super disappointed when Chrono got caught up in this stupid bullshit. $100k a year job plus OT and you take bribes from tow trucks? Friggin’ pathetic.