Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Remius]

Do you actually believe that our government only pursued this mandate because of pressure from the U.S. ...what about all of the other workplace mandates that they have imposed on federal employees and federally regulated industries, were those to appease the U.S. too?

No I said it was an easy win, do you really think we have any leverage to not appease them? The fact is that they have vaccine requirement. We do as well. That may have been by mutual agreement or maybe it was a tit for tat. You have a better chance of removing that mandate at the border if the US agrees to it than anything these truckers think they will accomplish.

 

[lenaitch]

Not attesting to the subject or source, just passing it along:

The trucker convoy organizer is an Islamophobic, homophobic conspiracy theorist

A video of Canadian trucker convoy organizer Pat King reveals the extremist core of the protest movement headed for Ottawa.

cultmtl.com

Apparently the organizers have pulled $1Mn out of the GoFundMe account. That's a lot of gas and snacks.

Organizer of GoFundMe campaign for trucker convoy withdraws $1M, company confirms | Globalnews.ca

The convoy movement, known as the “Save Canada” movement or the “freedom convoy,” started last Sunday in British Columbia and is making its way across Canada.

globalnews.ca

 

[Winds]

That's not what our Charter says and, like it or not, it's what we've got. Even in the US - the fount of ultimate freedom to some - rights have limits in many instances that don't threaten the security of the state. Besides, what you or I think is not particularly relevant except perhaps for debating purposes. I'm not aware of any Covid-related restriction, mandate or rule that has yet hit the SCOC or appelate-level court.

I never mentioned The Charter specifically in that post, I was speaking about Liberal Democracy. Section 1 of the Charter "guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."

The key is that the limits must be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society. How are workplace mandates with little medical justification (see my other posts), made without parliamentary discussion, supposed to meet this standard? No, no cases have yet made it up to the appellate court but there are lawsuits in progress... they are just moving at the speed of justice, so no hearings for another few months.

As you brought up the U.S., you should note that Biden's widespread vaccine mandate was struck down by the courts... and this was a mandate that included reasonable accomodation for testing (unlike the mandates being enforced by the federal government in Canada).

 

[mariomike]

Not attesting to the subject or source, just passing it along:

The trucker convoy organizer is an Islamophobic, homophobic conspiracy theorist

A video of Canadian trucker convoy organizer Pat King reveals the extremist core of the protest movement headed for Ottawa.

cultmtl.com

Apparently the organizers have pulled $1Mn out of the GoFundMe account. That's a lot of gas and snacks.

Organizer of GoFundMe campaign for trucker convoy withdraws $1M, company confirms | Globalnews.ca

The convoy movement, known as the “Save Canada” movement or the “freedom convoy,” started last Sunday in British Columbia and is making its way across Canada.

globalnews.ca

This caught my eye from the above,

I am concerned by extremist elements that are spreading misinformation and attempting to turn the convoy into a Canadian version of the terrorist attacks on the US Capitol.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1486762512473280516

 

[mariomike]

Elon Musk tweeted in favour of Canadian truckers as a convoy heads to Ottawa to protest COVID regulations across the country.

That was nice.

Is that the one pushing for autonomous trucks?

​

 

[Kat Stevens]

This caught my eye from the above,

I am concerned by extremist elements that are spreading misinformation and attempting to turn the convoy into a Canadian version of the terrorist attacks on the US Capitol.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1486762512473280516

It must be a terrible feeling for Jagmeet to constantly be so fearful of his fellow Canadians.

 

[Mills Bomb]

This seems to be unfolding into quite the situation in Ottawa. I can't imagine this protest will be a good look for Canada or our efforts in Ukraine.

Left or Right, it seems our country has become so divided over these mandates we simply can't continue to successfully exist in this form without a lot of people being really pissed off. Perhaps this is the point where the politicians have simply reached their limit of exploitation, they got 90% vaccination, the battle for last 10% may be too hard fought (Not by politicians - but by our retail workers, police, and everyone else who actually deals with the general public day to day) and going down this road may have the potential to lead to even more civil unrest as we're beginning to see now.

The Left leaning sources seem to be trying to play this thing down, while on the right they're trying to play up the numbers to things that don't make sense (For example the early claims of 150,000+ trucks coming from the far-right sources). None of the bias is any surprise though, everyone knows different news sources have different biases, and probably most will agree we've seen these same media bias's with the BLM protests last year being portrayed in completely different ways by different sides of the political spectrum. I've been following this and I think the numbers of big trucks may end up being 1000 to 2000, with an additional 4000-6000 POMV (Pickups, cars, etc) but make no mistake, this is A LOT of vehicles and can easily jam up the entire city. Anyone who has been to Parliament Hill knows how much space a dozen touring buses takes there, so this is not an insignificant amount by any means and I think it could turn out to be a lot more vehicles than my personal prediction.

I'm seeing photos coming from Ottawa and the trucker "advanced party" is already jamming the place, there's non-stop honking, the police are apparently already requesting additional support, and the main body isn't arriving until tomorrow when I imagine the full extent of the event (err- chaos?) will unfold. As for when they're leaving? Nobody knows, some of the trucks are carrying small wooden shacks on them so it looks like they are planning to stay a while and set up shop. Some sources are saying they're going to have concerts, political stages will be set up, and they even plan on having aboriginal leaders on stage speaking out against Trudeau (This is according to event organizers - will it happen? Unsure. It will definitely be interesting if it does).

The Conservatives seem to be sort of concerned as well, it seems like because they don't know the outcome yet, a lot of them are really walking on eggshells trying to decide if they should be for or against it. O'Toole is flip-flopping, it seems like he's not fully confident in what to do right now or how to play this off yet, he could very easily make a mistake depending how this goes. JT seems to be firm on playing it down and trying to ignore it and further pissing them off, this is probably not good either. This is definitely unprecedented so who knows what the best stance on it actually is for each political party. Singh's brother-in-law donated $13,000 to the convoy so I can't see that working out well for the NDP either, so all of the big players are potentially at risk of making very big political mistakes that may effect them in the next election (If any of them are even still running based on their recent polls).

Anyone still trying to play this thing down saying stuff like "It's only going to be a couple dozen vehicles" needs to get more informed especially if you're currently in the NCR. Good, bad, or terrible, this massive rally is definitely happening and I don't think anyone right now can accurately say how it's going to end, or even when it's going to end, or how many people are actually going to be here in total. We'll only know once it's over.

I personally can't see this ending all that well. We know the organizers demands of "ending all lockdowns and mandates" probably won't work, and certainly won't have any immediate results. Is it realistic that JT will step down? Very doubtful he will do that. Best case for the truckers seems to be that they remain peaceful, make their point, and then head back home. Perhaps Doug Ford will try to win some support by loosening up the provincial regulations a bit more. If the movement is as big as the organizers think, they can vote out JT next election and they might gain some support as it certainly seems those opposed to these mandates are a lot more people than initially thought. There is also a lot of support from young people being shown in photos of the crowds, including parents bringing their young children to wave on the trucks as heroes. I'm not a psychologist but I'm just going to guess here that maybe exposing young children to confusing and polarizing politics they probably can't understand isn't a good thing, and they may end up taking that into the classroom with them when school resumes.

Let's hope this BS is over sooner than later, for me personally I mean the BS coming from all sides that poured fuel on this fire from the over the top mandates, JT further pissing them off with his attempts to alienate all opposed to his ways, the anti-science facebook idiots, the far-right idiots with agendas, the far-left idiots with agendas, the foreign influences helping fund this thing (How many of those donations are probably from Russia or China?) and everyone else who is contributing to turning Ottawa into a massive embarrassing traffic jam of pissed off citizens. I think this will have international consequences for other countries as well, last night Trump Jr. made a video saying "They should do something like this in America".

 

[daftandbarmy]

This seems to be unfolding into quite the situation in Ottawa. I can't imagine this protest will be a good look for Canada or our efforts in Ukraine.

Left or Right, it seems our country has become so divided over these mandates we simply can't continue to successfully exist in this form without a lot of people being really pissed off. Perhaps this is the point where the politicians have simply reached their limit of exploitation, they got 90% vaccination, the battle for last 10% may be too hard fought (Not by politicians - but by our retail workers, police, and everyone else who actually deals with the general public day to day) and going down this road may have the potential to lead to even more civil unrest as we're beginning to see now.

The Left leaning sources seem to be trying to play this thing down, while on the right they're trying to play up the numbers to things that don't make sense (For example the early claims of 150,000+ trucks coming from the far-right sources). None of the bias is any surprise though, everyone knows different news sources have different biases, and probably most will agree we've seen these same media bias's with the BLM protests last year being portrayed in completely different ways by different sides of the political spectrum. I've been following this and I think the numbers of big trucks may end up being 1000 to 2000, with an additional 4000-6000 POMV (Pickups, cars, etc) but make no mistake, this is A LOT of vehicles and can easily jam up the entire city. Anyone who has been to Parliament Hill knows how much space a dozen touring buses takes there, so this is not an insignificant amount by any means and I think it could turn out to be a lot more vehicles than my personal prediction.

I'm seeing photos coming from Ottawa and the trucker "advanced party" is already jamming the place, there's non-stop honking, the police are apparently already requesting additional support, and the main body isn't arriving until tomorrow when I imagine the full extent of the event (err- chaos?) will unfold. As for when they're leaving? Nobody knows, some of the trucks are carrying small wooden shacks on them so it looks like they planning to stay a while and set up shop. Some sources are saying they're going to have concerts, political stages will be set up, and they even plan on having aboriginal leaders on stage speaking out against Trudeau (This is according to event organizers - will it happen? Unsure. It will definitely be interesting if it does).

The Conservatives seem to be sort of concerned as well, it seems like because they don't know the outcome yet, a lot of them are really walking on eggshells trying to decide if they should be for or against it. O'Toole is flip-flopping already but that's not exactly a huge surprised. JT seems to be firm on playing it down and trying to ignore it and further pissing them off. This is definitely unprecedented so who knows what the best stance on it actually is for each political party.

Anyone still trying to play this thing down saying stuff like "It's only going to be a couple dozen vehicles" needs to get more informed especially if you're currently in the NCR. Good, bad, or terrible, this massive rally is definitely happening and I don't think anyone right now can accurately say how it's going to end, or even when it's going to end, or how many people are actually going to be here in total. We'll only know once it's over.

I personally can't see this ending all that well. We know the protests demands of "ending all lockdowns and mandates" probably won't work, and certainly won't have any immediate results. Is it realistic that JT will step down? Very doubtful he will do that. Best case for the truckers seems to be that they remain peaceful, make their point, and then head back home. Perhaps Doug Ford will try to win some support by loosening up the provincial regulations a bit more. If the movement is as big as the organizers think, they can vote out JT next election and they might gain some support as it certainly seems those opposed to these mandates are a lot more people than initially thought. There is also a lot of support from young people being shown in photos of the crowds, including parents bringing their young children to wave on the trucks as heroes (I'm not a psychologist but I'm just going to guess here that maybe exposing young children to confusing and polarizing politics they probably can't understand isn't a good thing).

Let's hope this BS is over sooner than later, for me personally I mean the BS coming from all sides that poured fuel on this fire from the over the top mandates, JT further pissing them off with his attempts to alienate all opposed to his ways, the anti-science facebook idiots, the far-right idiots with agendas, the far-left idiots with agendas, the foreign influences helping fund this thing (How many of those donations are probably from Russia or China?) and everyone else who contributed to turning Ottawa into a massive traffic jam of pissed off citizens. I think this will have international consequences for other countries as well, last night Trump Jr. made a video saying "they should do something like this in America".

The best way to 'control mobs' like this?

Bring up the food trucks and coffee wagons.

A little hospitality goes a long way to defusing tense situations like this. Seriously

 

[dimsum]

Perhaps Doug Ford will try to win some support by loosening up the provincial regulations a bit more.

Interestingly, ON is loosening regulations on 31 Jan. Indoor dining (50% capacity), indoor sports (same restrictions)...

Planned a month or more before this shitshow, of course, but I have 150% confidence that they'll say they had a part to play.

 

[mariomike]

The best way to 'control mobs' like this?

Bring up the food trucks and coffee wagons.

A little hospitality goes a long way to defusing tense situations like this. Seriously

Sounds so simple. But, I believe you are absolutely right.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I didn't run into the convoy on the highway. I did pass by a lot of people parked on the side of the road and standing on overpasses waving Canadian flags.

I'm not really vested into the whole convoy stuff but seeing so many Canadians out in -20C weather supporting other Canadians was impressive. Especially when a lot of Canadians can't even get off their ass to vote.

The way the government is trying to vilify Canadians should be a big redflag for everyone.

 

[dimsum]

I didn't run into the convoy on the highway. I did pass by a lot of people parked on the side of the road and standing on overpasses waving Canadian flags.

I'm not really vested into the whole convoy stuff but seeing so many Canadians out in -20C weather supporting other Canadians was impressive. Especially when a lot of Canadians can't even get off their ass to vote.

The way the government is trying to vilify Canadians should be a big redflag for everyone.

Ironically, this will get more Canadians to vote next time.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"I am concerned by extremist elements that are spreading misinformation and attempting to turn the convoy into a Canadian version of the terrorist attacks on the US Capitol."

aka

"I have safety concerns"

How spineless.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I

That was nice.

Is that the one pushing for autonomous trucks?

​

Here, Let Me Google That For You

Passive-aggressively teach your friends how to Google. For all those people who find it more convenient to ask you rather than search it themselves. Not associated with Google.

is.gd

 

[The Bread Guy]

FYI, in case anyone wants to see the reported end state of the protests -- appears to be the signing of the attached by the GG and the Senate (source)

Also, this reportedly from the Sgt At Arms (source)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Rights have limitations otherwise your "Liberal Democracy" can't exist....

As do the powers of the various levels of government, our governments at all levels govern by consent, that consent is thinner than they realize and it's not hard to rub spots raw, particularly with the steady degradation of parliamentary powers in favour of the PMO (under the last 3 PM's)

 

[Mills Bomb]

The news about this convoy just keeps getting worse.

There's someone named Pat King that is coming to light and his views are very far-right. One video shows him getting a lot of attention and they are claiming he is the "real" convoy organizer.

I think a lot more is going to come to light as this unfolds and we realize the full details of what's actually happening. It's looking less and less likely this will remain peaceful at this point but given how unprecedented this we'll have to just wait and see what happens. Hopefully I'm wrong about that but apparently there's a lot of booze flowing at this event now as well.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Keep in mind that these are basic human rights that people are arguing for. Primacy of such rights are at the heart of Liberalism. They are not the same type of rights as the U.S.'s "right to bear arms".

I would argue the genius in the 'right to bear arms' is as Justin Trudeau put it 'citizens, not just governments, must play a role in ensuring that fundamental rights are defended'. Specifically by providing the means to the citizenry to allow them do defend their rights from a government overstepping its bounds.

It does amaze me in this pandemic how many citizens are actively arguing to limit peoples rights and freedoms as though it is a good thing.

 

[lenaitch]

I never mentioned The Charter specifically in that post, I was speaking about Liberal Democracy. Section 1 of the Charter "guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."

The key is that the limits must be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society. How are workplace mandates with little medical justification (see my other posts), made without parliamentary discussion, supposed to meet this standard? No, no cases have yet made it up to the appellate court but there are lawsuits in progress... they are just moving at the speed of justice, so no hearings for another few months.

As you brought up the U.S., you should note that Biden's widespread vaccine mandate was struck down by the courts... and this was a mandate that included reasonable accomodation for testing (unlike the mandates being enforced by the federal government in Canada).

"Little medical justification". Many if not most public health and epidemiologist experts, within and outside government, might disagree. I hear some folks on social media disagree.

"Without parliamentary discussion". True, but show me a democratic system that has every single government decision subject to debate. Otherwise, parliament would still be debating Wave #1. The regulations (mandates) are authorized by the Emergencies Act, which was passed in 1988 - by a Conservative government.

Civil lawsuits have no direct impact on the legislative authority of Parliament.

 

[mariomike]

It does amaze me in this pandemic how many citizens are actively arguing to limit peoples rights and freedoms as though it is a good thing.

Nothing new about "limit(ing) rights and freedoms" in Canada.

A public notice from the City of Kelowna, B.C. on Oct. 19, 1918:

In order to prevent the spread of Spanish Influenza all schools, public and private, churches, theatres, moving picture halls, pool rooms and other places of amusement, and lodge meetings, are to be closed until further notice. All public gatherings consisting of ten or more are prohibited.