Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Furniture]

The appointed should determine the mandate of the elected? That's not far off what some of the protesters demanded of the GG.

I'm also not clear on the whole 'forcing with consent' angle. The House decides if the government has its confidence to govern.

The government forced consent by threatening to trigger an election, an election nobody but the LPC and CPC could likely afford to run. That pretty much ensures the NDP will "play nice", and do what the LPC want.

 

[Kirkhill]

The appointed should determine the mandate of the elected? That's not far off what some of the protesters demanded of the GG.

I'm also not clear on the whole 'forcing with consent' angle. The House decides if the government has its confidence to govern.

WRT the GG. She is the adjudicator according to Canadian law, as I understand it, and she was selected by the PM as HM's representative. He agreed to be supervised by her. Again, as I understand it.

WRT the Senate - my understanding of their role is one of sober second sight. They are granted the power to send legislation back to the Commons for them to have a rethink. And, again, these are people selected by Prime Ministers to review their work based on that understanding.

If the elected PM gets sufficiently offside that his own personally cadre of adjudicators feel the need to call him on it, how can he complain.

And, in fact, I don't have a problem with a counter to the "elected", especially if the public at large, including the malcontents, perhaps especially the malcontents, know that they have other avenues by which their grievances can be presented for consideration.

The power still lies where it is supposed to lie, in the hands of the elected. But I don't think it is wrong that the elected be tasked with resolving the things that make them feel uncomfortable as well as those they support.

 

[lenaitch]

WRT the GG. She is the adjudicator according to Canadian law, as I understand it, and she was selected by the PM as HM's representative. He agreed to be supervised by her. Again, as I understand it.

WRT the Senate - my understanding of their role is one of sober second sight. They are granted the power to send legislation back to the Commons for them to have a rethink. And, again, these are people selected by Prime Ministers to review their work based on that understanding.

If the elected PM gets sufficiently offside that his own personally cadre of adjudicators feel the need to call him on it, how can he complain.

And, in fact, I don't have a problem with a counter to the "elected", especially if the public at large, including the malcontents, perhaps especially the malcontents, know that they have other avenues by which their grievances can be presented for consideration.

The power still lies where it is supposed to lie, in the hands of the elected. But I don't think it is wrong that the elected be tasked with resolving the things that make them feel uncomfortable as well as those they support.

Not sure I'd use the word "adjudicator" - that's the role of the judiciary. More of a limited check. Attached re 'reserve power of the GG':

Governor General of Canada: the Role, the Myth, the Legend - Centre for Constitutional Studies

www.constitutionalstudies.ca

I concur the Senate can send bills back, but I was disagreeing with the suggestion that the Senate should be able to force an election or change of government.

 

[Kirkhill]

Not sure I'd use the word "adjudicator" - that's the role of the judiciary. More of a limited check. Attached re 'reserve power of the GG':

Governor General of Canada: the Role, the Myth, the Legend - Centre for Constitutional Studies

www.constitutionalstudies.ca

I concur the Senate can send bills back, but I was disagreeing with the suggestion that the Senate should be able to force an election or change of government.

I agree with you on the Senate. But I have no problem with the Senate making the life of the Government of the Day difficult and putting a little bit of grit into the system. A well functioning brake is always necessary in any good control system.

WRT the GG however

For me the clue is in the word Powers, as in "Reserve Powers". Like any good Reserve they can't be used easily or often. They are diminished every time they are used and take a long time to rebuild.

However the powers are no less real for all that. And I am glad they exist. Especially in times like these. Times that are demonstrating the truth of the aphorisms "A week is an eternity in politics" and "Events, dear boy, events." Sometimes it may be necessary to move faster than is possible under our five year electoral cycle, if the government gets offside with Canadians.

There is a debate to be had about legitimacy and the legitimate use of the powers, and the fora for that debate exist in parliament, both houses, the courts and the press, as well as in social media, the public square and pubs. I suggest that the PM of the day would be hard pressed to argue the powers used are illegitimate given that he has appointed the person that possesses those powers. If he gets offside with his own appointed "brakeman" I think he would find it difficult to argue she doesn't have a right deploy the brake.

Under these circumstances democracy has to mean something more that rescheduling Valentine's Day because a circus rolled into town.

 

[OceanBonfire]

...

While the demonstration started as a way of protesting against COVID-19 vaccine mandates and other public health measures brought about by the pandemic, it was quickly co-opted into an anti-government movement and became anything but peaceful, said Earle.

“When the leaders merged with the intent to usurp the government and openly preached about what they believe to be white genocide…your grassroots protest on COVID mandates ended,” she said. “I just could not remain friends with someone who stood by that as it evolved.”

...

Since the COVID-19 pandemic began, Valerie Andruszkiewicz said she and her siblings have been in constant conflict over the virus. After having been infected with COVID-19 herself, Andruszkiewicz said she faced skepticism from family members who doubted that she contracted the virus at all.

...

“Seeing the damage to the statues and monuments, to me, was so disrespectful,” she wrote. “I brought this to my brother’s attention. He, in turn, called me an ‘idiot’ for being so upset over something so insignificant.”

...

Kristen Harper, a registered nurse, has faced a similar kind of skepticism from her relatives, with family members who “believe that COVID isn’t real [and] wholly support this trucker convoy.”

...

Based in Ontario’s York Region, Melanie Templeman said she has been having a tough time getting through to family members when it comes to discussing the science behind the COVID-19 virus and vaccines, particularly her in-laws. Even with an educational background in microbiology and virology, attempts to examine medical research and studies are met with misinformation, she said.

“I’ve wasted so much breath trying to explain the science,” she wrote in an email to CTVNews.ca on Feb. 10. “It falls on deaf ears that refuse to accept any information from a legitimate scientist or news outlet as anything but ‘fake news.’”

The recent “Freedom Convoy” has taken things to a new level, Templeman said, with relatives often sharing this misinformation online and expressing support for the protests.

“The mere fact that all their social media is ablaze with snarky memes, ridiculous misinformation and slanderous accusations against media and political figures has made me unfollow them,” she wrote.

...

During the protest, Confederate flags and Nazi symbolism were seen paraded by some demonstrators. Seeing this imagery in Ottawa, where she lives, was upsetting, Erika said.

“Some people say they're not racist but they’re supporting the use of those flags for this particular protest,” she said in a phone interview with CTVNews.ca on Wednesday. “It’s ironic to me that you're supporting something that represents oppression in the name of freedom.”

...

'I don't know him anymore': Canadians losing family and friends over trucker protests

While trucker convoy demonstrations across several Canadian cities are being cleared out, tensions between family and friends remain. Several Canadians wrote to CTVNews.ca about differences of opinion that have left family members divided and friendships strained, with some ultimately deciding...

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[QV]

'I don't know him anymore': Canadians losing family and friends over trucker protests

While trucker convoy demonstrations across several Canadian cities are being cleared out, tensions between family and friends remain. Several Canadians wrote to CTVNews.ca about differences of opinion that have left family members divided and friendships strained, with some ultimately deciding...

www.ctvnews.ca

I'm not sure CTVNews can be considered a credible news agency anymore.

"White genocide"?

Was there even one window broken by the protestors during the whole time?

 

[Remius]

I'm not sure CTVNews can be considered a credible news agency anymore.

"White genocide"?

Was there even one window broken by the protestors during the whole time?

They quoted that person who said “white privilege”. Not sure why them quoting someone fir their reasons to stop having certain friends is somehow not credible. I missed the part about white genocide.

Yes. There was.

 

[Furniture]

'I don't know him anymore': Canadians losing family and friends over trucker protests

While trucker convoy demonstrations across several Canadian cities are being cleared out, tensions between family and friends remain. Several Canadians wrote to CTVNews.ca about differences of opinion that have left family members divided and friendships strained, with some ultimately deciding...

www.ctvnews.ca

CTV really cherry picked some doozies.

I like how they tossed in one pro-protest person at the end, so they can claim to be impartial.

 

[Remius]

CTV really cherry picked some doozies.

I like how they tossed in one pro-protest person at the end, so they can claim to be impartial.

Pro protesters aren’t really interested in talking to the MSM. So you get what you get.

 

[Furniture]

Pro protesters aren’t really interested in talking to the MSM. So you get what you get.

I'm fairly certain they got more than one email...

I know why they did it, and I don't mind it, apart from the fact that the MSM likes to pretend they are neutral.

 

[Haggis]

Was there even one window broken by the protestors during the whole time?

Are you including Coastal Gas Link site protesters in that question "during the whole time" of the EA being in force, or just truckers?

 

[KevinB]

I'm not sure CTVNews can be considered a credible news agency anymore.

"White genocide"?

Was there even one window broken by the protestors during the whole time?

There where a few acts of vandalism - a window broken in an apartment building and a trash can set ablaze by protestors at the same site.
There where some hooligans there, it's important to admit that aspect of it, even thought the vast majority didn't do things like that.

 

[Good2Golf]

Are you including Coastal Gas Link site protesters in that question "during the whole time" of the EA being in force, or just truckers?

Pretty sure no one included the CGL terrorism in the calculus of the EA declaration…

 

[AKa]

I sincerely believe that calling the occupation "peaceful" is disingenuous at best. There was a constant implicit and often explicit threat of violence throughout. People and businesses were harassed and screamed at for wearing masks. People who stood up and resisted were threatened. The continuous noise was an aural assault. My friends who live downtown were losing their minds from the stress. I can't imagine what it was like for people who were vulnerable or already suffering from mental health issues.

The greater group of the occupiers cavalierly dismiss the fear and suffering of the downtown populace. They felt no threat to themselves so everything was hunky dory until the greater police presence moved in.

 

[Haggis]

The Ontario Ministry of Transportation has suspended a number of commercial licences of businesses involved in the Ottawa "protest".

 

[RangerRay]

The Ontario Ministry of Transportation has suspended a number of commercial licences of businesses involved in the Ottawa "protest".

Reap what you sow. Actions have consequences. I only wish other squats/blockades/occupations faced similar consequences.

 

[Scott]

Pat King's bail hearing continues to make for good Twitter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1497230385197072384

 

[QV]

Reap what you sow. Actions have consequences. I only wish other squats/blockades/occupations faced similar consequences.

The one sided application in this is just another point of friction that didn’t need to be, but speaks volumes.

 

[Furniture]

I sincerely believe that calling the occupation "peaceful" is disingenuous at best. There was a constant implicit and often explicit threat of violence throughout. People and businesses were harassed and screamed at for wearing masks. People who stood up and resisted were threatened. The continuous noise was an aural assault. My friends who live downtown were losing their minds from the stress. I can't imagine what it was like for people who were vulnerable or already suffering from mental health issues.

The greater group of the occupiers cavalierly dismiss the fear and suffering of the downtown populace. They felt no threat to themselves so everything was hunky dory until the greater police presence moved in.

It was largely free of violence, therefore it was "peaceful" as far as protests go.

peaceful

I have never seen peaceful used as a descriptor for a protest with the intended meaning being "quiet and calm".

 

[QV]

Are you including Coastal Gas Link site protesters in that question "during the whole time" of the EA being in force, or just truckers?

The CGL incident was an act of domestic terrorism. So no, I’m not including the two together when I refer to protestor.