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FSA (Fin) positions / courses / training

CountDC

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hmmm - according to the CM shop no one is getting informed yet:

" know you are all anxious to find out when you will know what occupation you will be assigned to.  Well, I’m afraid we will have to wait a little longer.  I will repeat the same as the last update, the implementation plan (MES IP) is currently and still being reviewed at the higher level and not completely signed yet.  We are ready to fill Monitor Mass with your assigned occupation, but have been directed to wait until the plan (MES IP) is signed.  This plan also includes the establishment changes (ECs) for numerous positions across Canada and OUTCAN for APS 17, sooner. "

 
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stellarpanther

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For those who haven't heard yet, it was formally signed last week by the assistant CMP and will go into effect as of 31 Oct 16.  For those with Monitor Mass, you can check it there and it will tell you what your new trade will be.
 

Ostrozac

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stellarpanther said:
For those who haven't heard yet, it was formally signed last week by the assistant CMP and will go into effect as of 31 Oct 16.  For those with Monitor Mass, you can check it there and it will tell you what your new trade will be.

Not a lot of notice to sew on new trade badges for land uniform types prior to Nov 11 parades. I guess I was wrong about dress uniforms being the army's priority.

For curiousity's sake, once the new positions are announced, would somebody let us know which trade ended up with the bulk of the RMS Clerk OUTCAN billets? If they went strongly to one of the new trades then that trade is going to be a magnet for OT in the future. (If they went 50/50 then there's no real change from the current situation).
 

kratz

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It's a purple trade managed by CMP, so no. Dress uniforms are not high on the priority list.

The ratio for HRA and FSA nearly mirrors the old Admin / Fin ratio of 3:1. The posting opportunities have drastically changed,
along with the duties and responsibilities of the new Fin Svcs Administrators. Note: both trades are no longer formally clerks,
but administrators.
 
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stellarpanther

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I'm wondering how long it will take to start moving people around to the appropriate new trade?  I understand there is no money for additional moves and it is going to take a few years to get everyone in place, however there should be no reason they can't start moving people to their new positions within their geographical area IMO.
 

Lumber

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stellarpanther said:
I'm wondering how long it will take to start moving people around to the appropriate new trade?  I understand there is no money for additional moves and it is going to take a few years to get everyone in place, however there should be no reason they can't start moving people to their new positions within their geographical area IMO.

You shouldn't need to move.

If you were a QL5 qualified RMS Clerk, then you have all of the qualification for both Admin and Fin.

So, if your new trade is Fin, but you are presently serving in an Admin billet, then that's fine, because you have the necessary training and qualifications.

Everyone will get sorted out over the next 2-3 posting seasons, but really this won't be an issue until the new QL3s start graduating who really CAN'T be posted into the wrong billet.
 

CountDC

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Got FSA.

Last plan I heard from the clerk CofC (BSC/DSC) was that postings into the applicable trade billets would be done over a 5 year period.  Basics were any postings from APS17 on would be to trade positions as much as possible. The info presented then also indicated that almost all outcan would be HRA with very few for FSA as fin will mainly be at HQ and base levels. Be interesting to see the actual breakdown and MES IP. 
 
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stellarpanther

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Lumber said:
You shouldn't need to move.

If you were a QL5 qualified RMS Clerk, then you have all of the qualification for both Admin and Fin.

So, if your new trade is Fin, but you are presently serving in an Admin billet, then that's fine, because you have the necessary training and qualifications.

Everyone will get sorted out over the next 2-3 posting seasons, but really this won't be an issue until the new QL3s start graduating who really CAN'T be posted into the wrong billet.

Just because you were QL5 qualified doesn't mean you have all the necessary training. As an example, there are several RMS Clk's who have never touched pay or finalized a claim.  There are several positions in the RMS trade in which QL3 and QL5 don't cover.
 
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stellarpanther

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I've also heard that some units have been wrongly identified and they will need to sort that out still.
 

Lumber

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stellarpanther said:
Just because you were QL5 qualified doesn't mean you have all the necessary training. As an example, there are several RMS Clk's who have never touched pay or finalized a claim.  There are several positions in the RMS trade in which QL3 and QL5 don't cover.

News Flash: there a ton of position in the military for which no formal training is provided. Take mine for example: AdminO. I received ZERO training in anything to do with Admin, and yet here I am in charge of the entire admin section of a unit. I'm overall responsible for all military pay and claims, and ensuring my division is adhering to all rules and regs with respect leave, the central registry, releases, security clearances... and I've learned it all on the job. This doesn't cover any of the other things I'm required to do that don't specifically fall under the admin section's prevue, such as all outgoing correspondence, reports and returns, inspections and audits, event and exercise planning...

You know what I learned on my trade's training courses? How to navigate and fire missiles.

So, your QL3/5 may not teach you how to do every task involved with your position, but it prepares you in a lot of other ways.

Also, I was curious about your response so I just talked with my Clerks Administrators, and they all indicated that they learned CCPS and Claims on their 3s, and more advanced Claims (like international travel) on their 5s, so I don't know what they taught you on your course, but.... 
 

deskjockey43

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Why then is the recruiting site still coming up with RMS clerk positions as hiring? I suppose they are taking time to implement changes.
I have put in for RMS clerk anyway, though I believe it is HRA that deals with payroll admin.? I have my certification through the Canadian Payroll Association, therefore, that is what I would prefer. My experience also includes a/p, a/r, coding invoices, etc.
 

Lumber

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deskjockey43 said:
Why then is the recruiting site still coming up with RMS clerk positions as hiring? I suppose they are taking time to implement changes.
I have put in for RMS clerk anyway, though I believe it is HRA that deals with payroll admin.? I have my certification through the Canadian Payroll Association, therefore, that is what I would prefer. My experience also includes a/p, a/r, coding invoices, etc.

Correct. Pay is a HR function, not a Fin function.

You really don't need any previous qualification to do the job though. Right now my pay clerk is a Reg Force Pilot awaiting a VOT, and he's doing an amazing job.
 

deskjockey43

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I'm sure some experience does help, though, yes? Even if it's only for merit list standings  ;)
 

CountDC

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Perhaps the recruiting site is till advertising because the trade change doesn't take effect until after end Oct - we are still RMS Clks until then.

Don't expect CPA certification to really matter for doing military pay nor will it matter for merit listing. In fact the few bankers, accountants or payroll people that I worked with in the past were just about driven crazy with the military pay system.

QL3 and QL5 will be RQ Cpl and QL6 will be RQ Sgt.  There will also be a bunch of SQ (specialty quals) and EQ (experience quals?) that will require either courses or experience to be granted. Some off the top would be Cashier, Releases and AVPOL.  Hopefully they will start to run auditor (Policy Compliance) courses again.

Interesting to note that we will have 2 career managers for the trade.

Still waiting to see what they produce for a delta course.  Maybe I can go to Borden for a week to learn claims again. At least this time with the new policy changes I might actually learn something new.
 

Lumber

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CountDC said:
Still waiting to see what they produce for a delta course.  Maybe I can go to Borden for a week to learn claims again. At least this time with the new policy changes I might actually learn something new.

Why bother? Every base and unit seems to interpret CFTDTIs just a little differently.
 

PMedMoe

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I used ClaimsX and did all my own claims (for the most part).  My clerk loved me...  ;D
 

George Wallace

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PMedMoe said:
I used ClaimsX and did all my own claims (for the most part).  My clerk loved me...  ;D

That was the policy at our unit, and then they changed it and only the clerks in to OR could do it.
 

deskjockey43

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I learn quick and I already knew military pay would be different. I look forward to it. Assuming I get in, that is.
 
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stellarpanther

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Lumber said:
News Flash: there a ton of position in the military for which no formal training is provided. Take mine for example: AdminO. I received ZERO training in anything to do with Admin, and yet here I am in charge of the entire admin section of a unit. I'm overall responsible for all military pay and claims, and ensuring my division is adhering to all rules and regs with respect leave, the central registry, releases, security clearances... and I've learned it all on the job. This doesn't cover any of the other things I'm required to do that don't specifically fall under the admin section's prevue, such as all outgoing correspondence, reports and returns, inspections and audits, event and exercise planning...

You know what I learned on my trade's training courses? How to navigate and fire missiles.

So, your QL3/5 may not teach you how to do every task involved with your position, but it prepares you in a lot of other ways.

Also, I was curious about your response so I just talked with my Clerks Administrators, and they all indicated that they learned CCPS and Claims on their 3s, and more advanced Claims (like international travel) on their 5s, so I don't know what they taught you on your course, but....

Well, I have another news flash:  It's only been the last couple of years that they started teaching claims X on the courses in Borden, prior to that it was learn yourself or have someone show you.  Although I would admit, it's not that tough of a program to learn.  The problem will be with things like helping with budgets or DRMIS, things that aren't taught at Borden on RMS courses, this is a FSA trade.
 

CountDC

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each location putting their own spins on CFTDTI's is getting harder though as more policy inspections are done and they get slapped for not adhering.  With FSA it will become even harder for local policies as the official policies will hopefully be taught on the courses.

Funny thing about claimsx - it is supposed to be a user system but as typical the military in its wisdom has turned it into a clerk system.  Even the online booking tool is supposed to be the members but again it is the clerks in most locations doing the bookings.  Was excited about claimsx initially because along with users doing their own claims they would be able to do them as they travelled.  Highly disappointed when it came out and could only be done on a dwan system. So much for completing my claim as I travelled.

As you learn quick dj then come work for me, always need quick learners.  ;D
 
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