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FSA (Fin) positions / courses / training

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stellarpanther

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CountDC said:
each location putting their own spins on CFTDTI's is getting harder though as more policy inspections are done and they get slapped for not adhering.  With FSA it will become even harder for local policies as the official policies will hopefully be taught on the courses.

Funny thing about claimsx - it is supposed to be a user system but as typical the military in its wisdom has turned it into a clerk system.  Even the online booking tool is supposed to be the members but again it is the clerks in most locations doing the bookings.  Was excited about claimsx initially because along with users doing their own claims they would be able to do them as they travelled.  Highly disappointed when it came out and could only be done on a dwan system. So much for completing my claim as I travelled.

As you learn quick dj then come work for me, always need quick learners.  ;D

What I've seen was that bigger units such as CJOC HQ and some of the other HQ's with RMS Clk's of all levels and who also have Admin O's with an actual background in Fin and HR will insist claims are done my the mbr with the clerks doing the section 32 and 34 after.  The info though is done my the mbr and the clerk will review for accuracy.  In smaller units when there may only be a Pte/Cpl or MCpl and maybe a Sgt, high ranks in the unit will simply say they want the clerk to do it and that's the way it is.  There is no one with a high enough rank to push back and tell them it's not the clerks job to do their claim or book their flights etc. 

A couple of years ago at CJOC, I recall an MWO come in to the OR telling one of the clerks that he had a letter to be mailed out and handed, the clerk the papers and the address.  Luckily the RMS Clk WO just happened to be walking by and told him that it not the clerks job to do that and he could lick his own envelopes.  In a smaller unit, the Cpl or even MCpl probably would have simply did what he was told.
 

PuckChaser

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CountDC said:
Funny thing about claimsx - it is supposed to be a user system but as typical the military in its wisdom has turned it into a clerk system.  Even the online booking tool is supposed to be the members but again it is the clerks in most locations doing the bookings.  Was excited about claimsx initially because along with users doing their own claims they would be able to do them as they travelled.  Highly disappointed when it came out and could only be done on a dwan system. So much for completing my claim as I travelled.

Man would I love to be able to do my own claims. Waited over a year for one, because former unit didn't release ClaimsX privledges, and 6 months for another, because the ROR was swamped. Should be no reason I can't do my own data entry from the TD Itinerary sheet, and submit for review to the Fin Cell to approve.
 

dapaterson

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My pet peeve is entering my own claim, with the data, signing the claim & sending it for S34, and being told I have to do an itinerary sheet - hello, the claim contains the itinerary.

There are also some clerks who resist/resent people doing their own bookings / doing their own claims - sometimes, it takes gentle persuasion to get them to give up control.
 

CountDC

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unfortunately I am located in a place where I am the only Reg F Clk  :(

Agree fully that at some smaller locations (such as reserve units) people often abuse the rank.  Once had a Lt try to get me to type his university report because someone told him to bring it to me.  He left when I laughed and told him in certain words that there was no way I was typing it.  Mind you I also once automatically blurted out to a command chief that the whole reason for claimsx was so that mbrs could do their own claims - not sure if he did it or found someone else to do it but never heard about it again.  Thinking I got real lucky that day. ;D

I will happily give access to anyone to go in and do their own claims while ensuring they know to look in CFTDTI for the regulations and feel comfortable asking the clerks for assistance.  Eventually they will reach a point that they are as good as many of the clerks in completing them.  I have taken the time to sit down with troops and walk them through claimsx so they know what to do including pointing out that there is a nice box called msg from claimant to sect 32 or sect 34 (depending on stage)that they can use if not sure of something or need to explain something.  I have had to show that to most clerks also as for some reason they don't know about it.

Will never understand the mentality of not giving the access.  Create a potential good system and then handicap it.  Some clerks feel it is better to do the claims as the member is just going to mess it up and we will have to fix it anyway.  I think better to let member try and then show them what they did wrong so they learn after all the clerks had to be taught, why not teach everyone else.
 

Lumber

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CountDC said:
unfortunately I am located in a place where I am the only Reg F Clk  :(

CountDC said:
Funny thing about claimsx - it is supposed to be a user system but as typical the military in its wisdom has turned it into a clerk system.  Even the online booking tool is supposed to be the members but again it is the clerks in most locations doing the bookings.  Was excited about claimsx initially because along with users doing their own claims they would be able to do them as they travelled.  Highly disappointed when it came out and could only be done on a dwan system. So much for completing my claim as I travelled.

Are you at a reserve unit? I have 3 Clerks Administrators, one of whom is RegF, and they are all so over worked right now...

It honestly seems like 75% of their time (not exaggerating) is devoted to travel and claims. One of my Admins does nothing but travel and claims, one of the other Adminshelps him out a lot, and we bring in a Class A Admin for a full day twice a week to do nothing but claims.

So, it would be lovely if I could just get all of the Class A members to do their own claims, because we do a LOT of travel. But that's just my problem, they're all Class-A. They have 3 hours a week to do training and divisional work. If they have an org chart position, they have 6 hours a week to do training and admin, but they have just that much more admin because they're supervisors. Trying to get them to tack on doing their own claims would be a nightmare, especially when they often have only about two weeks notice before they travel.

(For those not experienced with the naval reserve, we travel A LOT)
 
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stellarpanther

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Lumber said:
Correct. Pay is a HR function, not a Fin function.

You really don't need any previous qualification to do the job though. Right now my pay clerk is a Reg Force Pilot awaiting a VOT, and he's doing an amazing job.

Are you telling me that you have a pilot with access to make changes in CCPS?  There are a lot of people that call people acting in an Admin position "Pay clerk" but they would be wrong?  I've heard on a few occasions someone getting view access who isn't an RMS Clerk but never access to make changes.  I should also add that most unit's with RMS Clerks don't have access to make any changes to pay and people would need to go to the BOR to have anything done.
 

dapaterson

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There is more than one military pay system, despite what CFLTC teaches on the 3s.
 

Lumber

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stellarpanther said:
Are you telling me that you have a pilot with access to make changes in CCPS?  There are a lot of people that call people acting in an Admin position "Pay clerk" but they would be wrong?  I've heard on a few occasions someone getting view access who isn't an RMS Clerk but never access to make changes.  I should also add that most unit's with RMS Clerks don't have access to make any changes to pay and people would need to go to the BOR to have anything done.

No, RPSR.
 

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CountDC said:
Funny thing about claimsx - it is supposed to be a user system but as typical the military in its wisdom has turned it into a clerk system.  Even the online booking tool is supposed to be the members but again it is the clerks in most locations doing the bookings.  Was excited about claimsx initially because along with users doing their own claims they would be able to do them as they travelled.  Highly disappointed when it came out and could only be done on a dwan system. So much for completing my claim as I travelled.

Even the old paper claims system was supposed to be completed by the member and submitted for payment.  It just never worked out that way.  People routinely screwed them up and so Claims sections simply got bigger so they could complete claims on behalf of members and ensure they were done properly.  In many cases, members actually go more than they expected because the claims clerks had a better understanding of entitlements.  It did lead to interesting situations though as clerks occasionally had to deal with wadded up, carbon covered papiér maché balls that had once been neatly completed CF99s (in triplicate, stapled together with carbon paper in between) and stacks of "mystery" receipts (or no receipts).  Never understood why some folks insisted on folding up their claims and shoving them in pockets.

Side Story:  I always figured that making three copies and stapling them together with carbon paper was unnecessarily messy and pointless, so I asked by Chief Clerk why we needed to send three copies with the member.  He, like I, could see no reason as the entire package had to stay together until the claim was finalized (i.e. all the requisite signatures), at which point, the claim could be photocopied and distributed to all the folks who need it.  So I had my Ship's Office start to prepare only one copy of claims and to forego the carbon paper.  It did not take long for an XO (5000 km away) to call me to inform me that one of my sailors showed up with ONLY one copy of his claim!  I asked him why this was a problem and his only response was that there were supposed to be three copies.  It was a short conversation...
 

Blackadder1916

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Pusser said:
. . .  I always figured that making three copies and stapling them together with carbon paper was unnecessarily messy and pointless, so I asked by Chief Clerk why we needed to send three copies with the member.  He, like I, could see no reason as the entire package had to stay together until the claim was finalized (i.e. all the requisite signatures), at which point, the claim could be photocopied and distributed to all the folks who need it.  . . .

I suppose that it may be a holdover from the days (and I remember them well) when the availability (and quality of reproduction) of photocopiers was not always sufficient.  But then, my clerk training (the medical clerks course was in two parts - the first being an abbreviated Adm Clk TQ3 at CFSAL) was in the days when you used carbon paper while typing up correspondence, and routine orders (and other high volume items) were mimeographed.  The three copies of a claim paled in comparison to what fellow students (at the US Army AMEDD OAC 1990) had to lug around - when the course completed and they were posted they had to have 100 copies of their orders and (as officers) it was up to them to arrange for the copies.
 

Pusser

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True enough.  The time in question though was when we had reached the stage where photocopiers were reasonably easy to use, unregulated and printed on regular paper - a far cry from the days when they used "photocopy/Xerox paper" and we had to enter the number of copies we made into a log, after getting permission to make them in the first place!
 

CountDC

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the good days.  Need 3 copies on the actual green forms from the pad - no photocopies.  Had a few arguments over the years on them.  First one moved us from needing to use the form for all 3 - we were allowed to photocopy and then place the carbon paper between the pages.  Even when the computers first came out we had to use the actual forms and carbon paper.  Eventually after enough arguing they allowed us to print them from the computer template I set up instead of using the form pad but of course still needed the carbon paper.  I think someone at the base claims section just had a weird fetish for carbon paper. Eventually we did them fully in house so one copy was good until the claim was fully completed.

Mimeograph was fun - always managed to get crap on me while cranking that handle.

Yep claims always were the members responsibility but in the pass I could understand not having them do it with the carbon paper copies we had. if they messed up too much you would end up starting all over from scratch (3 errors and you're out and no white out allowed). Now with claimsx there isn't a reason they can't as you can easily go in and make changes.

 

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You do realize that you are showing your vast (age) experience, right? I mean, a large number of these kids will not know what a mimeograph is. Some will not even have ever used carbon copies.  [:D
 

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deskjockey43 said:
You do realize that you are showing your vast (age) experience, right? I mean, a large number of these kids will not know what a mimeograph is. Some will not even have ever used carbon copies.  [:D
And that smell, that mimeograph smell...  ;D
 

Lumber

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deskjockey43 said:
You do realize that you are showing your vast (age) experience, right? I mean, a large number of these kids will not know what a mimeograph is. Some will not even have ever used carbon copies.  [:D

One year at RMC we were walking through the hall looking at some form we had to fill out, and I blurted out "What the heck is a facsimile?".

Of course, one of the UTPNCM students happened to be standing near-by. She scoffed and explained that it meant "fax"....
 

Pusser

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Lumber said:
One year at RMC we were walking through the hall looking at some form we had to fill out, and I blurted out "What the heck is a facsimile?".

Of course, one of the UTPNCM students happened to be standing near-by. She scoffed and explained that it mean "fax"....

I would say, not quite.  The word, "facsimile," simply means a copy or reproduction.  Does anyone else remember all those old TV ads that asked you to (snail) mail in a number of box tops or "reasonably hand-drawn facsimiles?"  I wondered if these companies had a panel of judges to determine whether they were "reasonably" hand-drawn?  The word, "fax," is a shortened form of "facsimile" and has come to refer specifically to the electronic copy sent over a telephone line.  In other words, "fax" is more specific than "facsimile."

It's interesting sometimes to see the words we still use to describe things, even though we have long stopped actually doing those things:

1)  When was the last time anyone actually "dialed" a phone?

2)  Other than pleasure craft, no one actually "sails" a ship or in a ship anymore.

3)  When was the last time anyone actually saw a piece of carbon paper, but how many of you "cc'd" (i.e. carbon copied) someone recently on an email?  NB.  "cc" is the notation used at the bottom of civilian letters to indicated a person who has received a "carbon copy" of that letter.  e.g. "cc: Dr Bloggins")  At one time, it literally meant that the indicated person received a copy of the letter that had been made using carbon paper.  It is roughly equivalent to the military "INFO" address list.

4)  It's been a long time since anyone actually "cut" an order.  This relates to the above mentioned mimeograph machines that used a paper stencil where the text was actually cut into the paper.  The mimeograph machine forced the ink through the stencilled holes in order to print copies.  Many typewriters actually had a third setting (between black and red) in order to cut stencils easier.  Interestingly, the paper "stencils" used in spirit duplicators were also called "stencils," even though they weren't.

5)  Speaking of typing, we still "type" things, even though very few people even have typewriters anymore.  Nor to printers set type...
 

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cavalryman said:
And that smell, that mimeograph smell...  ;D

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