Future Canadian Airborne Capability and Organisation! Or, is it Redundant? (a merged thread)

[ParaMoe]

Is it not funny how a bunch of crap hats tell us how much we need the airborne?
Only a true AIRBORNE soldier knows the capabilities of an airborne unit. Sure some officers up at NDHQ might have thier wings on thier uniform but two months under the beret does not make you a paratrooper.
Money is not a option, effectiveness is. The keener non-JTF troops are in the Paras, though it may seem like elitetism but the facts are true. More heart, more guts, more skill, and an ego that is hard to break which make paratroopers the world over a force to recon with no matter the size.
Take away the AIRBORNE, PARACHUTE COYS or whatever you want to call it, then watch out carrer manager you‘re gonna get a lot of troops getting out.

L.G.o Ps will mess up your day. :mg:

 

[sgtdixon]

I Know this is a late reply as I have been quite busy prep‘ing for my Six Wekk Survival instructors course (for which I Leave on the 6th). Every since i was a kid living on base in the PMQ‘s in Greisbach and my father came home after an ex‘ resplendant in his maroon beret I was mystified and since then I have wanted to follow the same path as my father,(he was an MSE Op with SvcCdo),i was amazed by the camariadie that the Airborne had, and i was inspired by my fathers stories about how on his Mountaineering course he was the only Tradseman there and everyone else was an Infanteer, and he outran ‘em all cuz he was gonna let "no f(*)ing grunt!" run him into the ground, and for the first time when the Airborne was disbanded i saw my father weep, for the orginization that had helped him become a soldier was no more, but there was light because there were still the Pars coys,And now i plan on in one year enlisting and becoming a member of that brotherhood. So the to Generals, dont kill the para coy‘s for political reasons, do what an officer is supposed to do, be there for your troops and prove that the upper echelons still know there is a need for these Jump Coy‘s.

 

[the patriot]

With the recent events surrounding September 11, 2001 in New York and the performance of our paratroopers in Afghanistan, it would make complete sense to see the CAR returned to the orbat. 3 PPCLI‘s deployment proved that there is still a need for rapidly deployable and capable soldiers that can perform in any environment.

-the patriot-

 

[Linc]

Don‘t think that just because recent gov‘t policy has been to effectively limit the Canadian Forces to peacekeeping and disaster relief, that those are the only military ‘jobs‘ left to do in the world. Nor should you assume that just because Canada likes to deploy troops in small ad-hoc battle groups that this is the standard depolyment force required in any future operations.

Afghanistan proved that there is still a need to field an effective combat force. Airborne infantry provide a heavily armed, highly mobile force that can quickly deploy to and around a combat theatre. Airborne troops would be a ‘first in first out‘ unit. An example of an ideal para mission in the modern age might be dropping a force to seize an airfield in a land-locked country, such as Kandahar airfield in Afghanistan, and securing the surrounding area allowing allied transport planes to land allowing regular infantry troops to deploy from the airfield and continue the campaign. This could even be used in "peacemaking" operations such as those in the early 90‘s in the Former Yugoslavia, where NATO allies had to basically force thier way into the country to establish a presence. Also can be used as a rapid reaction unit to reinforce peacekeepers in a deteriorating pecekeeping mission.

Aid and releif are done by DART, as this is not a combat unit, but should be expanded to provide more releif services. DART was successful in Turkey, and was on standby to go to New York after 9/11, and would be deployed in Canada in the even of a mjor emergency here. DART is definitely essential to Canadian interests and even the pacifist anti-military types seem to support it.

 

[combat_medic]

OK, first things first:

Elite forces = soldiers who are trained above and beyond a "normal" level of soldiering, while still employing the tactics of conventional warfare and therefore still subject to the Geneva Convention (ie US Army Rangers, British Airborne etc.)

Special Forces = soldiers trained in UNconventional warfare (anti-terrorism, hearts and minds ops, LRRP etc.) as well as conventional warfare who are NOT afforded the protection of the Geneva convention (SAS, Delta Force, Navy Seals, Spetsnaz)

now that we have that straight, in my reservist-REMF opinion, Canada seems to have no real elite forces any more with the probably exception of the para companies. While have a para-capable unit with the expectation of an op like Market Garden is not feasable, the ability to effectively deploy troops quickly is always going to be present, as has been in evidence in Afghanistan.

So, why not have an airborne/airmobile/light infantry battalion who is trained in desert/jungle/mountain ops, who can do a mass static line jump OR an air mobile operation. Make an elite force for the other troops to aspire to and have them all in same area, rather than spread out all over the country the way the jump companies are now. Does this make sense to anyone else?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Wow i just stumbled across this site and its great.
Should we have an airborne regiment? I would have to say with out a doubt yes. You can spend hours listing the tactical reasons why every army needs an airborne force. The idea of paratroopers dates back to michael angelo "Where is the king who can defend his castle against soldiers falling from the sky".

Will canada ever reform the regiment? I would have to say with out a doubt no. Canada is in love with the idea of peacekeepers. Critics do not believe paratroopers (who by training are arguably "agressive") make good representives of peece keepers. I served a peacekeeping tour with one of the jump companies in bosnia. While there a general addressed our company in a question and answer sitting and the question was asked if it was planned to get rid of the jump companies and the general said yes. I cannot quote him exactly but he basically said there is no real requirement for for airborne troops and even light infantry battalions and since canadians bought the new LAV 3s they want to see them used so the light infantry battalions will be made into mech battalions.

 

[Futur_Para]

We I‘m a civi, My main goal in life as a teenager was to earn my wings and have the honour to wear the maroon beret and best of all The CAR cap brass. As a civi I noticed that the CF has been going down in moral and man power. Even the respect we used to have as one of the best trained militarys with the equipment we have.. No we are losing that. My father served 25 years in the AF and retired as a WO. He looks at the military today and tears come to his eyes as they do to mine. I know of over 50 people from all over Canada that wanted to join the CAR. It was there main goals. maybe 20 of them joined the Reg force after the disbannedment. 10 joined the reserves. And most just looked at the military as .... No comment. Many people I know say the CAR was the Last soul of the Military. I know many service men will not like that. People say the Airborne is dead. I think not. The spirit lives on in those who love the regiment. Like a sister or brother You love them no matter what they do.
I donno what else to say.
Airborne... You are not forgotten.

 

[para]

This is in ref. to GHOST778
I was at that meeting (in the ranks) and to my recollection what the General said was true however this little get together was about 2 - 3 weeks before 9/11 and I am sure that the top brass will (as always) change there stance on Light Infantry Battallions for the future.

"GO LIGHT OR GO HOME"
"JUST ME AND MY BLACK CADILLACS"

 

[Jarnhamar]

Hopefully they will see the wisdom behind light infantry battalions. Especially considering the state of our vehicles and equipment.
Afganastan was a perfect example; Light Infantry being moved around by helicopters and what not.

What i read in the books regarding armored vehicles and peacekeeping is that ‘Armored vehicles offer the soldiers a great deal more protection however large armored vehicles often anger crowds and insite them to violence.
ex-when nato ordered the banks closed down and how the crowd reacted to the APCs involved.

 

[coreybain]

OK, assume airmobile is the answer and the para option is out dated and unlikey because of lack of transport. What helos are we goin to use ? the Griffon? please, only six troops in winter conditions. (anyone else notice how promenent winter conditions are in Canada) Also we have no Attack/armed helos either, I know they are looking at arming some Griffons, but how effective are they going to be compared to an Apache? Airmobile or Para Canada does not have the equipment or the political will and money to get the equipement or set up such a unit (just my oppinion, and I hope I‘m proved wrong). Ideally I believe a light INF Regiment is what we need, two airmobile battalions and a Para battalion ie combine the existing Light INf battalions and Para coys, they exist already, and such a move i feasable if unlikey. As for equip only God knows!

 

[combat_medic]

I think that ALL of the previous ideas mentioned here are dependant on the CF receiving a higher budget (resurrecting the CAR, a light inf bn., airmobile etc.) Heck, we‘re going to need a larger budget just to maintain the airborne capabilities we have now.

 

[Jarnhamar]

We would have more cash if we wouldn‘t allow certain soldiers (to be polite and avoid finger pointing) to purchase $800 dollar toilet seats, $1200 dollar designer shower curtans and spend $200 on a can of helicopter wax or a few thousand dollars on a pair of binoculars.

What does the army suggest to save money?
Eliminate the rear right pocket and the parts at the bottom which you tuck into your boots to save 8 cents on each pair.

 

[Spr.Earl]

The Air Borne will return.
Why? All the western Armies are going
light and rapid.

If you notice we still have jump companies
with in the Reg.‘s and amongst the Sapper‘s we
still send boy‘s on thier jump course.

We were up there with the best and will be
again.

Have faith,I do.

 

[para]

WEST IS GOING HEAVY
EAST IS GIONG MED(LAVS)
CENTRAL(PETAWAWA)LIGHT>

 

[Jungle]

West is going MEDIUM, the rest are going light. Each Bde will have LAV-3 Batt(s) and a Light Inf Batt. 1 Bde will have all the Leos, M-109s and mech engineer eqpt. The Light Inf batts will develop a spec ops capability, with 2 year rotations as dedicated QRF. We will never see a heavy Bde in the Cdn Army.

 

[Student Sapper]

Northern Iraq. :warstory:

‘nuff said.

 

[Wilson601]

It does my heart good to say yes, but as it was put earlier, my brain says no.

I can see how the mystique really gets to a soldier, its rather disheartening to think a young soldier like myself will never get the chance to a part of something so great as the CAR. It would have been an attainable goal, for an aspiring young soldier to be the best. This is why (through the eyes of the soldiers at least) the Canadian Airborne Regiment will..HAS been greatly missed. and thats my opinion. :skull:

 

[Student Sapper]

A new Airborne unit is required. It is the only way o ensure that parchute force wil be garunteed the combat support required for a mission. You could designate te standard level of support required by a jump Coy (Say a Sect each of Recce, Mor, TOW, and HMG, and an Engineer Tp). It would not be enough, within a Bde, to only train the minimum number of sub-units to fill this task. What if the requirment for TOW is unusualy high? What if one of the setions is unvailable due to pers on courses, recent return form deployment, injuries, etc. To work, each Bde would have to train two of each of these units, or

A full Airborne unit could prvide the internal redundancy to support three rilfe companies. The unit would not have to train additional combat support groups below the Coy level, becuse of the Cb Sp Coy.

 

[51BNS]

Yes we need an elite in our army and the airborne regiment was this elite. Every countries in the world have large commandos forces ready for war, even freaking Poland have some and us?? just jtf2...is that enought to defend ourselves or attack? i dont think so. The only waste of money in the forces is the minister McCallum paycheck.

 

[Jarnhamar]

A special forces unit isn‘t going to defend us from attack. A well trained and equiped front line military will.
JTF is great but how effective would they be at taking and holding ground with out the artillery armored engineers or infantry?
We don‘t need an elite unit like the airborne. We need a well trained army which includes an airborne element.