g-wagon crew commander

[Shamrock]

AVAM has two POs - operate mounted TCIS and conduct vehicle movement, neither of which are really made redundant by other training.  It requires three training days.

Operate mounted TCIS could be added to ATCIS - that course is already over 40 days, so what's one more?  Unfortunately, that also requires each ATCIS serial to have sufficient vehicle mounts.  Conduct vehicle movement could be included as part of D&M.  However, it would be reduplicated in each successive serial the soldier takes.

AVCC has four POs, none of which are a duplication of AVAM. It has a duration of 9 days.  As a prerequisite, it requires completion of PLQ.  It would be ideal if this were captured as an additional two weeks of PLQ-A; however, this places greater burden on those training centres - not only in instructor and student hours, but also for vehicles and crew.

I just want to point out we shouldn't get caught up in the armoured part of AVAM as G-Wagen are included as A-Vehs.

Edit: I missed some very good points raised by McG.

We operate in a chiefly mechanized environment, and it only makes sense AVAM would be part of DP1.  However, not all infantrymen are employed as armour operators - a case could thus be made to keep qualification responsibility at the units.  Armour has captured AVAM as part of its DP1. 

A read of IODP`s QS reveals a prerequisite for loading on DP1.2 requires LAV APC Commander (competency AIEV).

 

[Robert0288]

but the PRes has no use for AVAMs as they have no armoured vehicles.

Some do.  And in past years used them fairly regularly.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Some do.  And in past years used them fairly regularly.

What PRes unit currently has armoured vehicles on their TO&E and what are they?

 

[Journeyman]

What PRes unit currently has armoured vehicles on their TO&E and what are they?

Some do.  And in past years used them fairly regularly.

        op:

 

[Robert0288]

EW Bisons.  But I'm fairly sure when they got reabsorbed into 21EW a little while ago, the bisons disappeared as well.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

:backpedalling:

Bisons disappeared from the PRes as soon as they dropped the ramp and the Regs looked inside. There was no intent from the beginning to let the PRes have them, even though that was the stated purpose to get them purchased. PRes had use of a few of them, as well as Cougar and Grizzly, for awhile through MTCs.

Also, AFVs being on loan, or crewed by PRes, does not constitute ownership or entitlement by those personnel's unit.

 

[PuckChaser]

EW Bisons.  But I'm fairly sure when they got reabsorbed into 21EW a little while ago, the bisons disappeared as well.

Reserve EW Sqn has never had Bisons on its entitlement, only temp loan from 2 EW. They now belong to 21 EW, and are very rarely loaned to the Res Sqn as they are either being repaired, on exercise, or VOR'd.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Just like how I got qualified CC and T-LAV driver in the early 2000's and haven't touched them since...no real need for them in PRes...

 

[Journeyman]

See kids?  That's why you don't post stuff out of your butt on military topics.  Someone is sure to call your BS.  :nod:

 

[Robert0288]

Ok thank you for clearing up that up.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Um hello? G-Wagons are "Armoured" recce vehicles.. therefore, armoured vehicles...

All your points are invalid.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Um hello? G-Wagons are "Armoured" recce vehicles.. therefore, armoured vehicles...

All your points are invalid.

:nana:

;D

 

[medicineman]

When I got to 2RCR, I was told  "You're the CC for the Bison amb...here's a quick course on how to use the TCCCS.  Your toggle switch goes this way to talk to your driver, this way to talk to the rest of the world, and don't leave it engaged like that while you're slagging down the CSM, OC, CO etc.  The vehicle is very big, so you have to make sure you know where it is in relation to everyone else around you.  Your driver will show you how to refuel and help with maintenance.  They'll also help out a bit with tactical and admin movements.  They'll also show you how to start it up, shut it down and how to get in and out (that part I already knew - had to learn how to get broken people out of the things).  There, you're good to go."  That was AVAM and AVCC for me.

MM

 

[Rick Goebel]

:backpedalling:

Bisons disappeared from the PRes as soon as they dropped the ramp and the Regs looked inside. There was no intent from the beginning to let the PRes have them, even though that was the stated purpose to get them purchased. PRes had use of a few of them, as well as Cougar and Grizzly, for awhile through MTCs.

Also, AFVs being on loan, or crewed by PRes, does not constitute ownership or entitlement by those personnel's unit.

The Calgary Highlanders had eight Bisons on unit charge for at least two years in the early 90s.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The Calgary Highlanders had eight Bisons on unit charge for at least two years in the early 90s.

Read my above about the Bisons.

We're talking about now.

The Windsor Regiment had Shermans on its charge, late 50's & early 60's.

Doesn't mean anything to this thread though does it?

 

[Shamrock]

When I got to 2RCR, I was told  "You're the CC for the Bison amb...here's a quick course on how to use the TCCCS.  Your toggle switch goes this way to talk to your driver, this way to talk to the rest of the world, and don't leave it engaged like that while you're slagging down the CSM, OC, CO etc.  The vehicle is very big, so you have to make sure you know where it is in relation to everyone else around you.  Your driver will show you how to refuel and help with maintenance.  They'll also help out a bit with tactical and admin movements.  They'll also show you how to start it up, shut it down and how to get in and out (that part I already knew - had to learn how to get broken people out of the things).  There, you're good to go."  That was AVAM and AVCC for me.

MM

Call me new fashioned, but I like the idea of training our soldiers for the jobs they have to perform.  We've abandoned too much over the past 15 years and we really need to return to our roots as a professional, highly trained, competent force rather than the good-enough cowboys we are fast becoming.

 

[medicineman]

Call me new fashioned, but I like the idea of training our soldiers for the jobs they have to perform.  We've abandoned too much over the past 15 years and we really need to return to our roots as a professional, highly trained, competent force rather than the good-enough cowboys we are fast becoming.

When I was Ops Sgt at the Clinic in Gagetown after leaving the Batallion, I was actually trying to get as many people as possible onto an AVAM course whenever the Armour School ran one, so that if/when some poor soul ended up going to Afghanistan and being tossed into one, they'd have some more schmick than I had...of course, as that was a logical thing, I was told it wasn't important and we ( the unit) were too heavily tasked to lose people for an "unimportant course".  What they forgot was we had a Bison amb on the pad in PV for field evacuations  :.

MM

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I was told it wasn't important and we ( the unit) were too heavily tasked to lose people for an "unimportant course".  What they forgot was we had a Bison amb on the pad in PV for field evacuations  :.

With every type of light ever made hanging off of it... ;D

 

[Shamrock]

When I was Ops Sgt at the Clinic in Gagetown after leaving the Batallion, I was actually trying to get as many people as possible onto an AVAM course whenever the Armour School ran one, so that if/when some poor soul ended up going to Afghanistan and being tossed into one, they'd have some more schmick than I had...of course, as that was a logical thing, I was told it wasn't important and we ( the unit) were too heavily tasked to lose people for an "unimportant course".  What they forgot was we had a Bison amb on the pad in PV for field evacuations  :.

MM

Yeah, I hear that drum beaten often.  Too busy to prepare and train properly.  We'll make it up on the fly.

I recall hearing ages ago that the Americans didn't have a specific gunnery course for their LAV-2 - gunners were given a picture of the reticle and were just expected to learn it from there.  I laughed at the idea.  Yet, here we are in Canada telling commanders to just wing the commanding stuff...

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Yeah, I hear that drum beaten often.  Too busy to prepare and train properly.  We'll make it up on the fly.

I recall hearing ages ago that the Americans didn't have a specific gunnery course for their LAV-2 - gunners were given a picture of the reticle and were just expected to learn it from there.  I laughed at the idea.  Yet, here we are in Canada telling commanders to just wing the commanding stuff...

Correct me if I'm wrong but the US LAV-25 has a "point and shoot" fire control system.  All you would really need to know is that the crosshairs is where you want the bullets to go.