General Hillier in Esquimalt

[K. Ash]

Hey, for any of the guys in Esquimalt, I was just wondering if you were going to the CDS's speel about Canadian Military's future.

 

[FSTO]

I was there, he gave a very informative and funny presentation. Looks like we have a real go-getter here with a lot more drive and operational focus then some of the previous ones (Baril comes immediatly to mind). His plan looks like it has the support of the current government and it has a lot of aspects that are drawn right out of the Conservative Defense Statement, so if Martin falls and Harper is elected, we shouldn't miss a beat.
Some highlights:

The 5,000 extra reg force is just the start of the increase in pers;
We are going to get new kit and will drop some things that are not operationaly important (vauge on what that was)
Navy will get C3 ships, Amphib Ship and most important to the Navy, seperate AOR replacement (JSS Light?)

The rest is available on the DND web (which is down today)

 

[Cloud Cover]

The 5,000 extra reg force is just the start of the increase in pers;
We are going to get new kit and will drop some things that are not operationaly important (vauge on what that was)
Navy will get C3 ships, Amphib Ship and most important to the Navy, seperate AOR replacement (JSS Light?)

This sounds good, although I am tempted to leave it at that, I have to ask ... it sounds like an LPD 17 or 2 is coming sooner rather than later, no?

Where will the "marines" for the amphib come from? Will the Army retask a couple of battalions (or whatever they call their formations these days), or are all Army pers. going to be expected to embark on board the amphib?

 

[FSTO]

This sounds good, although I am tempted to leave it at that, I have to ask ... it sounds like an LPD 17 or 2 is coming sooner rather than later, no?

Where will the "marines" for the amphib come from? Will the Army retask a couple of battalions (or whatever they call their formations these days), or are all Army pers. going to be expected to embark on board the amphib?

Yep, the army, airforce and Navy will train together. He envisions 1 task group at high readiness, 1 travelling about the world training with other nations, and a 3rd at rest and refit. I wanted to ask when was my posting to the Gator Navy was coming!  ;D

 

[Sub_Guy]

I know my bro who is RCR did some exercies down with the marines back in 00.  I forget what ship he was on, all really remember is that he loved the amphib landing (LCAC's)  but hated the fact that there were no divders between crappers................USS Gunston Hall

 

[Cloud Cover]

  but hated the fact that there were no divders between crappers................USS Gunston Hall

Don't worry, the thrones in the Can. Navy are single seaters and they are usually so clean that the Pope himself would be proud to take a dump aboard ship. Juts for fun one time, we jokingly put a seat belt around one for rough weather excursions.

That being said, any ship with a good sized crew with hundreds of army passengers is going to be mighty cramped for space once all the kit is loaded and stored aboard. I can see these ships being nominally dry ships except for special events.

 

[civvy3840]

This Hillier guy seems to be pretty good. Lets hope he follows through with what he says he's going to do. Here are his Future plans for the forces:

Future Tasks of the Canadian Forces
To support Canada's role in contributing to international peace and stability, the Canadian Forces, with the addition of 5,000 Regular and 3,000 Reserve personnel, will be able to sustain the continuous deployment of up to 5,000 personnel around the globe.

In terms of specific contributions to international operations, the Canadian Forces will be capable of performing the following tasks.

With respect to national assets, the Canadian Forces will be able to:

sustain for up to six months the command element of the Standing Contingency Task Force, either land- or sea-based, capable of multinational lead-nation status in peace support operations; and
sustain indefinitely the national command element of a Mission-Specific Task Force overseas. It will also be capable of multinational lead-nation status in peace support operations for more limited periods.
With respect to special operations forces, the Canadian Forces will be able to:

sustain for up to six months the deployment overseas of the Special Operations Group;
provide special operations elements to support the Standing Contingency Task Force or another Mission-Specific Task Force in order to enhance their covert surveillance and other capabilities;
provide an enhanced Joint Task Force 2 to conduct operations such as the evacuation of Canadians and other non-combatants from areas of conflict; and
provide an enhanced Joint Nuclear, Biological and Chemical Defence Company for overseas operations, including as part of NATO missions.
The Maritime Forces will be able to:

sustain indefinitely the deployment overseas of two ships (one from each coast) with embarked maritime helicopters, or a submarine and a ship, for operations in direct support of the Special Operations Group or as forward elements of the Standing Contingency Task Force anywhere in the world;
sustain for up to six months a task group of up to four combatant vessels with the capability for a national or multinational command component for operations abroad. This task group will be capable of precision fire and support to forces ashore and will be used as an integral element of the Standing Contingency Task Force or in support of other national objectives; and
deploy a second task group for up to six months, either as a follow-on force to the Standing Contingency Task Force or as part of a separate Mission-Specific Task Force.
The Air Forces will be able to:

provide assured airlift to support international operations;
provide a globally deployable special operations aviation capability to the Special Operations Group;
sustain indefinitely the deployment overseas of two embarked maritime patrol helicopters (one on each coast) and one Aurora maritime patrol aircraft as the forward element of the Standing Contingency Task Force anywhere in the world;
provide for up to six months an Air Expeditionary Unit as an integral element of the Standing Contingency Task Force. This unit would be comprised of:
up to two Aurora maritime patrol aircraft to support land- and sea-based elements,
up to six maritime helicopters for deployment with the naval task group, and
up to six medium-to heavy-lift helicopters to support land operations;
sustain indefinitely overseas an Air Expeditionary Unit as an integral element of a deployed Mission-Specific Task Force. This would consist of:
up to six medium-to heavy-lift helicopters to support land operations;
deploy for up to six months to a prepared base in a secure location an Air Expeditionary Unit as an integral element of a Mission-Specific Task Force. This would consist of:
one Airbus configured for air-to-air refueling, and
six CF-18 aircraft for air-to-ground missions.
The Land Forces will be able to:

provide light forces to support the Special Operations Group, capable of integrating with Joint Task Force 2 elements;
provide the land component of the Standing Contingency Task Force, capable of embarking and operating from a maritime platform;
sustain overseas for an indefinite period two land task forces, potentially in different theatres of operations, to form the land component of Mission-Specific Task Forces. While currently limited to approximately 700 personnel, these land task forces will increase to approximately 1,200 personnel. In addition, the land forces will be able to provide a smaller, third task force of approximately 1,000 personnel for a six-month period, either to reinforce a current operation or to mount a new short-term mission. Overall, the land forces will effectively double their capacity to undertake and sustain operations; and
provide a brigade headquarters, capable of commanding a multinational formation for a year, as part of a larger Canadian international effort.
In the area of humanitarian support and disaster relief, the Canadian Forces will, among other things:

provide an enhanced Disaster Assistance Response Team, or its component parts, for humanitarian assistance missions overseas.

I got this information from this link it has already been posted somewhere but incase you haven't seen it: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/reports/dps/main/toc_e.asp

 

[Sub_Guy]

Don't worry, the thrones in the Can. Navy are single seaters and they are usually so clean that the Pope himself would be proud to take a dump aboard ship.

I am aware of the crappers on CDN ships, I have sailed on every class except for the MCDV, but do those really count???  Anyway they are usually clean, but occasionally you get the phantom crapper who sprays poop all over the place....<---- Usually CPO's heads....WTF is up with that?  I don't mind cleaning, but when you are cleaning CPO's heads, you can bet there will be the one stall that has crap sprayed all over it.......USE THE TOILET BRUSH CHAMP

I was expressing concern if we picked up the LPD 17 class, if the crappers were not going to have dividers................

 

[Neill McKay]

I was expressing concern if we picked up the LPD 17 class, if the crappers were not going to have dividers................

Perhaps that would be addressed in the extensive "Canadianization" process that I assume would take place.

 

[FSTO]

I wouldn't assume a LPD 17 just yet, the General himself said that they would be pretty expensive and he talked about what the Dutch and Spain had been building.

Here is what I think we should procure;

http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/enforcer/

I think it has been linked here before

 

[Sub_Guy]

Nice ships, so what is the deal here, one amphib, and perhaps 2 RAS  capable ships.

As an amphib with RO-RO, combined with RAS seems a little complicated for me.


What is the C3 ship he was talking about

 

[FSTO]

He initially stated that there would be an Amphib complemented by the JSS. Now the original ALSC was envisioned to do both over the shore logistics AND Fleet replenishment. With the CDS vision that there will be a dedicated Amphib, the Navy can now use the JSS as a more modest (read; money saving) AOR with some over the shore capabilities.
If I had the authority, I'd get 2 (possible 3) Amphibs and 4 JSS.
He also committed the CF for a replacement for the 280's, likely as the common hull project.

 

[Sub_Guy]

The Danish navy has a pretty good deal going with thier common hull project. 

If we could cut back crewing size, manning shouldn't be a problem.  Just look at the Thetis class of ships compared to our CPF's, a CPF crew could almost man 4 thetis class vessels.

I just wish the the Department of National Defence had this vision years ago (AND MAINTAINED IT).  We are playing catch up, and I have this feeling that by asking for a lot, if we get some, it is still better than nothing.

I have no fear if this budget doesn't get passed, as the conservatives (IMHO) won't tinker with the defence plan, if anything they will improve on it

 

[Cloud Cover]

Here is what I think we should procure;

http://www.scheldeshipbuilding.com/enforcer/

I think it has been linked here before

You're talking about the 13000 or the 18000[ ] right?

 

[Allen]

Just look at the Thetis class of ships compared to our CPF's, a CPF crew could almost man 4 thetis class vessels.

The Thetis class are closer to OPV's than what we would consider a frigate. The normal weapons and systems fit is very basic; naturally crews would be smaller.

Having said that, the days of 200-man frigates are over. You'll see a lot smaller crew on the next generation of ship, but not as low as 80.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Having said that, the days of 200-man frigates are over. You'll see a lot smaller crew on the next generation of ship, but not as low as 80.

Funny...alot of people thought the aircraft carriers days were numbered as well with the emergence of the SSN.  :

 

[daniel h.]

The Thetis class are closer to OPV's than what we would consider a frigate. The normal weapons and systems fit is very basic; naturally crews would be smaller.

Having said that, the days of 200-man frigates are over. You'll see a lot smaller crew on the next generation of ship, but not as low as 80.

If our military were funded better, 200+ crews would be no problem.....more efficiency inevitably means loss of jobs as well.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Funny...alot of people thought the aircraft carriers days were numbered as well with the emergence of the SSN.   :

Dammit, Ex-Dragoon, I really wish you'd stop with your non-stop promotion of Aircraft Carriers.....



Matthew.  ;D

[Been busy, but had to come out of lurking mode to jump on that one....]