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Global Warming/Climate Change Super Thread

Kirkhill,

I believe you have it exactly right. We DO pay "carbon tax".
We just need to call it a "carbon tax"

I for one wouldn't mind a tax on stupidly large mega big- a$$ pickups.
It seems every third vehicle in Alberta is a 4 wheeled monster
looking to devour your kids. It's getting surreal.  Or maybe I need to
get my meds tweeked.  ;)
 
Flip said:
Kirkhill,

I believe you have it exactly right. We DO pay "carbon tax".
We just need to call it a "carbon tax"

I for one wouldn't mind a tax on stupidly large mega big- a$$ pickups.
It seems every third vehicle in Alberta is a 4 wheeled monster
looking to devour your kids. It's getting surreal.  Or maybe I need to
get my meds tweeked.  ;)
Those "stupidly large mega bi- a$$ pickups" already cost a fortune to buy, fuel maintain and insure.  Do you REALLY think that a "relatively" small carbon tax would act as a deterrence?  Also, where would the "carbon tax" funds go?  How would that help cut CO2 emissions?

 
Those "stupidly large mega bi- a$$ pickups" already cost a fortune to buy, fuel maintain and insure.  Do you REALLY think that a "relatively" small carbon tax would act as a deterrence?  Also, where would the "carbon tax" funds go?  How would that help cut CO2 emissions?

No, of course not - I'm just bitching.  ;D
Many of the trucks I'm talking about are company vehicles anyway.
I'm seriously against a "carbon tax", I can remember the NEP and
It's effects on the Alberta economy.

As for CO2 - wouldn't change a thing!
 
I wasn't suggesting that we institute a Carbon Tax to actually do anything.  It won't.  The market has already imposed its own "taxes" many times over since 1973.  There are more cars and trucks the world over now than there were then.... and the demand increases despite gas heading from 1.00 to 2.00 to 3.00 per gallon (US) over the last 5 years.

No, the suggestion was simply to put the issue to bed politically and, at the same time, leave open a window to exploit any appropriate technologies that might actually make a difference and reduce taxes to boot.
 
No surprise here; notice they slam the leader of the British Conservative party, rather than arch polluter Al Gore......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml;jsessionid=41E3IPVKOJZ15QFIQMFCFFWAVCBQYIV0?xml=/earth/2008/01/13/eagreens113.xml

Survey shows eco-warriors are worst polluters

Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 13/01/2008

A survey of travel habits has revealed that the most environmentally conscious people are also the biggest polluters.

"Green" consumers have some of the biggest carbon footprints because they are still hooked on flying abroad or driving their cars while their adherence to the green cause is mostly limited to small gestures.

Identified as "eco-adopters", they are most likely to be members of an environmental organisation, buy green products such as detergents, recycle and have a keen interest in green issues.
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But the survey of 25,000 people, by the market research company Target Group Index, found that eco-adopters are seven per cent more likely than the general population to take flights, and four per cent more likely to own a car. The survey found similar trends in France and the United States.

Geoff Wicken, the author of the report, pointed to David Cameron, the Conservative leader, as a classic eco-adopter because despite styling himself as a green warrior he also takes flights in private helicopters and planes.
 
Full article: http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=287279412587175

The Sun Also Sets
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Climate Change: Not every scientist is part of Al Gore's mythical "consensus." Scientists worried about a new ice age seek funding to better observe something bigger than your SUV — the sun.


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Related Topics: Global Warming


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Back in 1991, before Al Gore first shouted that the Earth was in the balance, the Danish Meteorological Institute released a study using data that went back centuries that showed that global temperatures closely tracked solar cycles.

To many, those data were convincing. Now, Canadian scientists are seeking additional funding for more and better "eyes" with which to observe our sun, which has a bigger impact on Earth's climate than all the tailpipes and smokestacks on our planet combined.

And they're worried about global cooling, not warming.

Kenneth Tapping, a solar researcher and project director for Canada's National Research Council, is among those looking at the sun for evidence of an increase in sunspot activity.

Solar activity fluctuates in an 11-year cycle. But so far in this cycle, the sun has been disturbingly quiet. The lack of increased activity could signal the beginning of what is known as a Maunder Minimum, an event which occurs every couple of centuries and can last as long as a century.

Such an event occurred in the 17th century. The observation of sunspots showed extraordinarily low levels of magnetism on the sun, with little or no 11-year cycle.

This solar hibernation corresponded with a period of bitter cold that began around 1650 and lasted, with intermittent spikes of warming, until 1715. Frigid winters and cold summers during that period led to massive crop failures, famine and death in Northern Europe.

Tapping reports no change in the sun's magnetic field so far this cycle and warns that if the sun remains quiet for another year or two, it may indicate a repeat of that period of drastic cooling of the Earth, bringing massive snowfall and severe weather to the Northern Hemisphere.


Tapping oversees the operation of a 60-year-old radio telescope that he calls a "stethoscope for the sun." But he and his colleagues need better equipment.

In Canada, where radio-telescopic monitoring of the sun has been conducted since the end of World War II, a new instrument, the next-generation solar flux monitor, could measure the sun's emissions more rapidly and accurately.

As we have noted many times, perhaps the biggest impact on the Earth's climate over time has been the sun.

For instance, researchers at the Max Planck Institute for Solar Research in Germany report the sun has been burning more brightly over the last 60 years, accounting for the 1 degree Celsius increase in Earth's temperature over the last 100 years.

R. Timothy Patterson, professor of geology and director of the Ottawa-Carleton Geoscience Center of Canada's Carleton University, says that "CO2 variations show little correlation with our planet's climate on long, medium and even short time scales."

Rather, he says, "I and the first-class scientists I work with are consistently finding excellent correlations between the regular fluctuations of the sun and earthly climate. This is not surprising. The sun and the stars are the ultimate source of energy on this planet."

Patterson, sharing Tapping's concern, says: "Solar scientists predict that, by 2020, the sun will be starting into its weakest Schwabe cycle of the past two centuries, likely leading to unusually cool conditions on Earth."

"Solar activity has overpowered any effect that CO2 has had before, and it most likely will again," Patterson says. "If we were to have even a medium-sized solar minimum, we could be looking at a lot more bad effects than 'global warming' would have had."

In 2005, Russian astronomer Khabibullo Abdusamatov made some waves — and not a few enemies in the global warming "community" — by predicting that the sun would reach a peak of activity about three years from now, to be accompanied by "dramatic changes" in temperatures.

A Hoover Institution Study a few years back examined historical data and came to a similar conclusion.
 
When the "solution" turns around and bites you in the ass:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/08/science/earth/08wbiofuels.html?_r=2&ei=5088&en=d14752df7318551d&ex=1360213200&oref=slogin&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

February 8, 2008
Biofuels Deemed a Greenhouse Threat
By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL

Almost all biofuels used today cause more greenhouse gas emissions than conventional fuels if the full emissions costs of producing these “green” fuels are taken into account, two studies being published Thursday have concluded.

The benefits of biofuels have come under increasing attack in recent months, as scientists took a closer look at the global environmental cost of their production. These latest studies, published in the prestigious journal Science, are likely to add to the controversy.

These studies for the first time take a detailed, comprehensive look at the emissions effects of the huge amount of natural land that is being converted to cropland globally to support biofuels development.

The destruction of natural ecosystems — whether rain forest in the tropics or grasslands in South America — not only releases greenhouse gases into the atmosphere when they are burned and plowed, but also deprives the planet of natural sponges to absorb carbon emissions. Cropland also absorbs far less carbon than the rain forests or even scrubland that it replaces.

Together the two studies offer sweeping conclusions: It does not matter if it is rain forest or scrubland that is cleared, the greenhouse gas contribution is significant. More important, they discovered that, taken globally, the production of almost all biofuels resulted, directly or indirectly, intentionally or not, in new lands being cleared, either for food or fuel.

“When you take this into account, most of the biofuel that people are using or planning to use would probably increase greenhouse gasses substantially,” said Timothy Searchinger, lead author of one of the studies and a researcher in environment and economics at Princeton University. “Previously there’s been an accounting error: land use change has been left out of prior analysis.”

These plant-based fuels were originally billed as better than fossil fuels because the carbon released when they were burned was balanced by the carbon absorbed when the plants grew. But even that equation proved overly simplistic because the process of turning plants into fuels causes its own emissions — for refining and transport, for example.

The clearance of grassland releases 93 times the amount of greenhouse gas that would be saved by the fuel made annually on that land, said Joseph Fargione, lead author of the second paper, and a scientist at the Nature Conservancy. “So for the next 93 years you’re making climate change worse, just at the time when we need to be bringing down carbon emissions.”

The Intergovernment Panel on Climate Change has said that the world has to reverse the increase of greenhouse gas emissions by 2020 to avert disastrous environment consequences.

In the wake of the new studies, a group of 10 of the United States’s most eminent ecologists and environmental biologists today sent a letter to President Bush and the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, urging a reform of biofuels policies. “We write to call your attention to recent research indicating that many anticipated biofuels will actually exacerbate global warming,” the letter said.

The European Union and a number of European countries have recently tried to address the land use issue with proposals stipulating that imported biofuels cannot come from land that was previously rain forest.

But even with such restrictions in place, Dr. Searchinger’s study shows, the purchase of biofuels in Europe and the United States leads indirectly to the destruction of natural habitats far afield.

For instance, if vegetable oil prices go up globally, as they have because of increased demand for biofuel crops, more new land is inevitably cleared as farmers in developing countries try to get in on the profits. So crops from old plantations go to Europe for biofuels, while new fields are cleared to feed people at home.

Likewise, Dr. Fargione said that the dedication of so much cropland in the United States to growing corn for bioethanol had caused indirect land use changes far away. Previously, Midwestern farmers had alternated corn with soy in their fields, one year to the next. Now many grow only corn, meaning that soy has to be grown elsewhere.

Increasingly, that elsewhere, Dr. Fargione said, is Brazil, on land that was previously forest or savanna. “Brazilian farmers are planting more of the world’s soybeans — and they’re deforesting the Amazon to do it,” he said.

International environmental groups, including the United Nations, responded cautiously to the studies, saying that biofuels could still be useful. “We don’t want a total public backlash that would prevent us from getting the potential benefits,” said Nicholas Nuttall, spokesman for the United Nations Environment Program, who said the United Nations had recently created a new panel to study the evidence.

“There was an unfortunate effort to dress up biofuels as the silver bullet of climate change,” he said. “We fully believe that if biofuels are to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem, there urgently needs to be better sustainability criterion.”

The European Union has set a target that countries use 5.75 percent biofuel for transport by the end of 2008. Proposals in the United States energy package would require that 15 percent of all transport fuels be made from biofuel by 2022. To reach these goals, biofuels production is heavily subsidized at many levels on both continents, supporting a burgeoning global industry.

Syngenta, the Swiss agricultural giant, announced Thursday that its annual profits had risen 75 percent in the last year, in part because of rising demand for biofuels.

Industry groups, like the Renewable Fuels Association, immediately attacked the new studies as “simplistic,” failing “to put the issue into context.”

“While it is important to analyze the climate change consequences of differing energy strategies, we must all remember where we are today, how world demand for liquid fuels is growing, and what the realistic alternatives are to meet those growing demands,” said Bob Dineen, the group’s director, in a statement following the Science reports’ release.

“Biofuels like ethanol are the only tool readily available that can begin to address the challenges of energy security and environmental protection,” he said.

The European Biodiesel Board says that biodiesel reduces greenhouse gasses by 50 to 95 percent compared to conventional fuel, and has other advantages as well, like providing new income for farmers and energy security for Europe in the face of rising global oil prices and shrinking supply.

But the papers published Thursday suggested that, if land use is taken into account, biofuels may not provide all the benefits once anticipated.

Dr. Searchinger said the only possible exception he could see for now was sugar cane grown in Brazil, which take relatively little energy to grow and is readily refined into fuel. He added that governments should quickly turn their attention to developing biofuels that did not require cropping, such as those from agricultural waste products.

“This land use problem is not just a secondary effect — it was often just a footnote in prior papers,”. “It is major. The comparison with fossil fuels is going to be adverse for virtually all biofuels on cropland.”

Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company
 
There is one "upside" to the Biofuel debate.

It provides a "legitimate" method of burning surplus food stocks being produced by subsidized EU/Yankee/.... farmers.  That same surplus was keeping the external international price of foods down and discouraging Third World farmers from growing crops in unsubsidized environments.  With food prices rising, and shipping costs rising it seems likely that those Third World farmers will be better placed to invest - and with a decent price more likely to attract real investors.

Perhaps that it the real rationale behind the green/biofuel fiasco.  It is a way to shift all those subsidized farmers off the dole.  The French and the Spanish were already having to convert millions of litres of subsidized plonk with no market into industrial alcohol just to get rid of their surplus.
 
The French and the Spanish were already having to convert millions of litres of subsidized plonk with no market into industrial alcohol just to get rid of their surplus.

Sad really, I like "plonk" I'd love to have mine subsidized.  ;D
 
Since modifying the luminosity of the sun is beyond our abilities for the foreseeable future, here is an alternative technological solution. Since these materials can be tailored to absorb specific molecules, this has potential for real pollution control as well:

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/02/15/tech-carbon-capture.html

New materials can selectively capture CO2, scientists say
Last Updated: Friday, February 15, 2008 | 12:48 PM ET
CBC News

Scientists have created metal-organic crystals capable of soaking up carbon dioxide gas like a sponge, which could be used to keep industrial emissions of the gas out of the atmosphere.

Chemists at the University of California Los Angeles said the crystals — which go by the name zeolitic imidazolate frameworks, or ZIFs — can be tailored to absorb and trap specific molecules.

    An optical photograph of crystals of zeolitic imidazolate frameworks (ZIFs). The porous materials can be designed to soak up specific molecules, such as carbon dioxide, making them potentially useful to trap the greenhouse gas. (Omar Y. Yaghi/Science)An optical photograph of crystals of zeolitic imidazolate frameworks (ZIFs). The porous materials can be designed to soak up specific molecules, such as carbon dioxide, making them potentially useful to trap the greenhouse gas. (Omar Y. Yaghi/Science)

"The technical challenge of selectively removing carbon dioxide has been overcome," said UCLA chemistry professor Omar Yaghi in a statement.

"Now we have structures that can be tailored precisely to capture carbon dioxide and store it like a reservoir, as we have demonstrated. No carbon dioxide escapes. Nothing escapes — unless you want it to do so. We believe this to be a turning point in capturing carbon dioxide before it reaches the atmosphere."

Yaghi and his colleagues describe their findings in the Friday issue of the journal Science.
Little energy needed to create crystals

He said the crystals are non-toxic and would require little extra energy from a power plant, making them an ideal alternative to current methods of CO2 filtering. The porous structures can be heated to high temperatures without decomposing and can be boiled in water or solvents for a week and remain stable, making them suitable for use in hot, energy-producing environments like power plants.
Continue Article

The team of scientists created 25 ZIF crystal structures in a laboratory, three of which showed a particular affinity for capturing carbon dioxide. The highly porous crystals also had what the researchers called "extraordinary capacity for storing CO2": one litre of the crystals could store about 83 litres of CO2.

The researchers created all 25 crystals by combining their raw materials in thousands of chemical reactions, which they say is similar to the high-throughput methods used in pharmaceutical research.

As concern over climate change grows and its link to human-made carbon dioxide emissions becomes clearer, governments and businesses around the world are investigating carbon-capturing technologies.

Past estimates from United Nation's energy and climate experts have pegged the cost of capturing CO2 between $25 US and $60 US a tonne for conventional coal-fired plants.

Earlier this month, a task force established by the Alberta and federal governments issued a report calling for $2-billion to get five new carbon capture and storage facilities operating by 2015.
 
From this article: http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

Blog: Science
Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
Michael Asher (Blog) - February 26, 2008 12:55 PM




World Temperatures according to the Hadley Center for Climate Prediction. Note the steep drop over the last year.Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming

Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.
No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here.  The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to wipe out nearly all the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year's time. For all four sources, it's the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.

Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.

Let's hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans -- and most of the crops and animals we depend on -- prefer a temperature closer to 70.


Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.
 
As if you don't already know this has nothing to do with science and everything to do with control:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/02/here_come_the_green_carjackers.html

February 29, 2008
Here Come the Green Car-Jackers
By Marc Sheppard

No amount of energy efficiency will ever do the trick -- the only way to save the planet is to surrender your car altogether. That's the conclusion reached by a group of Australian energy experts from last week's partial release of Professor Ross Garnaut's long-awaited climate change report.

You may recall that this was the very analysis Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd told last year's Bali conference he must await before embracing specific targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions.  Well, the wait is over, the cherry-picked facts are in and the hysteria is in full bloom.  As reported by The Age:

    "Based on the latest science, the report warns that the world is speeding towards more dangerous levels of climate change than previously thought, levels that are a byproduct of increasing carbon dioxide emissions that are a consequence of unexpectedly high growth in the world economy, particularly China. This, [Garnaut] suggests, renders the Bali framework for tackling climate change inadequate and means that emission cuts will have to be deeper, and sooner. If nothing is done, it will be to the greater cost to Australia, and the world." [my emphasis]


Deeper and sooner seem to be the trend of late, as does the magic number 450 as the threshold we dare not cross.

But, based on the latest science?  And they refer to anthropogenic global warming skeptics as the deniers?

For the record, here's the latest science.

    Following a rapid rise between 1978 and 1998 corresponding to exceptionally high solar activity, global temperatures were flat between 1998 and 2006 and the planet has just experienced its coldest January in 15 years. China is suffering through its coldest winter in 100 years, the same winter which saw the first snow ever recorded falling on Baghdad.  Antarctic ice is currently at record levels.  New Englanders are digging out nonstop from record snowfall.  And similar signs of a cooling trend are being reported worldwide.


Adding empirical measurement to scientific observation, intrepid Meteorologist Anthony Watts recently compiled the results of four "major well respected indicators" to arrive at a global average temperature drop between January 2007 and January 2008 of 0.6405°C.  That figure represents the single fastest temperature change ever recorded in either direction.

And even though all of these "cooling" indicators coincide quite neatly with recently diminished solar activity, the Big Green Scare Machine continues its mission to control world economies by fomenting blind hysteria about manmade atmospheric CO2 concentrations.  Okay, that last part was part science, part analysis.

Nonetheless, Monash University Associate Professor Damon Honnery takes Garnaut's warning to limit carbon dioxide emissions to 450 parts per million (ppm) in order to achieve a 90% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by mid century, very seriously.  "The car is doomed," he explained to news.com.au:

    "People are going to have to fundamentally change the way they think about travel and make much more use of non-motorised travel such as cycling and walking."

Really? But surely motoring around in one of those cute little politically-correct greenie-adored hybrid cars would still be eco-dandy, right?  Not so fast, warns the professor:

    "Our calculations show that not even the best combination of fuel efficiency, hybrid and electric cars, alternative fuels and car pooling could provide the reductions needed to meet the 2050 targets for avoiding dangerous climatic change." [my emphasis]

But what about all those smug faces I'd see leering up at me from the seats of their Prius's - weren't they already doing their part to save the world from me and my SUV?  Are these selfless earth-savers to now be told that the sacrifices that the UN, Greenpeace and other fellow greenies worldwide insisted they accept were ultimately for eco-naught?

And what of us non-suckers?  Granted, some of these initiatives may ultimately pay off in consumer savings and "energy independence" down the road, but surely these are matters best left to market forces, not group-think fiat.

And yet we all pay for the disastrously wasteful "carbon debt" consequences of ill-planned eco-schemes the likes of ethanol initiatives.  Didn't recent studies predict that the release of carbon through conversion of forests, grasslands, and food cropland into biofuel cropland may take decades or, perhaps, centuries to offset through biofuel usage? What's the point if they'll soon want our keys, too? And then there's that little matter of food shortages in developing nations caused by governments coercing farmers to grow biofuel crops rather than food in the interest of greed and green geopolitics.

Of course, if they really want our hand before we've even offered a finger, even green believers should wonder when they might come for the arm. Might a similarly duplicitous incremental bait-and-switch be in play with regard to electric plants or other supposed GHG producers?  After all, the report repeats the tired dogma of blaming global warming on "unexpectedly high growth in the world economy."  Mightn't carbon taxes, cap-and-trade exchanges and forced investment in currently non-existent carbon capture-and-sequestration also be intentionally designed to fail, in favor of even harsher regulation and socialistic control?

Fear not, you say, for they're obviously targeting cars because citizens have a slew of alternate modes of transportation available - right?

Did I neglect to mention that Honnery's colleague, Dr Patrick Moriarty, asserts that even a "near-total shift from the private car to public transport" would still not represent sufficient sacrifice?  No, says he, in order to meet the emission targets recommended by Garnaut, we'll also need to put the kibosh on air travel:

    "An overseas trip might become a once-in-a-lifetime experience rather than an annual event."

So then, suppose in a media-induced effort to save the planet from the ravages of global warming, you dutifully went out and traded that old gas guzzler for a fuel efficient vehicle, then further lowered your all-important "carbon footprint" by joining a car pool.  You then happily switched to energy-saving appliances and light bulbs and resigned yourself to leading a happy, responsible, green life.  But now, despite continued data suggesting a sustained downward trend in global temperatures as atmospheric CO2 levels continue to rise, you learn that your efforts were simply not good enough.  You need to do more.  You need to give up your car and essentially forget about world travel.

And maybe that's enough - for now.

You still buying this?

Wake up, greenies -- you're being used as well-meaning pawns by those who have neither your's nor your planet's best interest at heart. 

Marc Sheppard is a frequent contributor to American Thinker.  He welcomes your feedback.

Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/02/here_come_the_green_carjackers.html at February 29, 2008 - 10:59:24 AM EST

The real problem may be far more serious:

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/view507.html#Friday

And on Global Warming, there is more ice in the Arctic this year than last, and Siberia, China, and northern Canada are covered in snow. Look out for Global Cooling.

Ice Ages are far more to be feared than warming. And I remind you, in the last Real Ice Age, Southern England and Belgium went from deciduous trees to a hundred feet of ice in about 100 years, according to lake sediments. That is a very rapid cooling indeed. And the ice reaches miles in depth in some places.

Warming gives longer growing seasons and better crops. Cooling does the opposite.
 
A Real scientist speaks out:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2008/mar/01/scienceofclimatechange.climatechange/print

'Enjoy life while you can'

Climate science maverick James Lovelock believes catastrophe is inevitable, carbon offsetting is a joke and ethical living a scam. So what would he do? By Decca Aitkenhead

In 1965 executives at Shell wanted to know what the world would look like in the year 2000. They consulted a range of experts, who speculated about fusion-powered hovercrafts and "all sorts of fanciful technological stuff". When the oil company asked the scientist James Lovelock, he predicted that the main problem in 2000 would be the environment. "It will be worsening then to such an extent that it will seriously affect their business," he said.

"And of course," Lovelock says, with a smile 43 years later, "that's almost exactly what's happened."

Lovelock has been dispensing predictions from his one-man laboratory in an old mill in Cornwall since the mid-1960s, the consistent accuracy of which have earned him a reputation as one of Britain's most respected - if maverick - independent scientists. Working alone since the age of 40, he invented a device that detected CFCs, which helped detect the growing hole in the ozone layer, and introduced the Gaia hypothesis, a revolutionary theory that the Earth is a self-regulating super-organism. Initially ridiculed by many scientists as new age nonsense, today that theory forms the basis of almost all climate science.

For decades, his advocacy of nuclear power appalled fellow environmentalists - but recently increasing numbers of them have come around to his way of thinking. His latest book, The Revenge of Gaia, predicts that by 2020 extreme weather will be the norm, causing global devastation; that by 2040 much of Europe will be Saharan; and parts of London will be underwater. The most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report deploys less dramatic language - but its calculations aren't a million miles away from his.

As with most people, my panic about climate change is equalled only by my confusion over what I ought to do about it. A meeting with Lovelock therefore feels a little like an audience with a prophet. Buried down a winding track through wild woodland, in an office full of books and papers and contraptions involving dials and wires, the 88-year-old presents his thoughts with a quiet, unshakable conviction that can be unnerving. More alarming even than his apocalyptic climate predictions is his utter certainty that almost everything we're trying to do about it is wrong.

On the day we meet, the Daily Mail has launched a campaign to rid Britain of plastic shopping bags. The initiative sits comfortably within the current canon of eco ideas, next to ethical consumption, carbon offsetting, recycling and so on - all of which are premised on the calculation that individual lifestyle adjustments can still save the planet. This is, Lovelock says, a deluded fantasy. Most of the things we have been told to do might make us feel better, but they won't make any difference. Global warming has passed the tipping point, and catastrophe is unstoppable.

"It's just too late for it," he says. "Perhaps if we'd gone along routes like that in 1967, it might have helped. But we don't have time. All these standard green things, like sustainable development, I think these are just words that mean nothing. I get an awful lot of people coming to me saying you can't say that, because it gives us nothing to do. I say on the contrary, it gives us an immense amount to do. Just not the kinds of things you want to do."

He dismisses eco ideas briskly, one by one. "Carbon offsetting? I wouldn't dream of it. It's just a joke. To pay money to plant trees, to think you're offsetting the carbon? You're probably making matters worse. You're far better off giving to the charity Cool Earth, which gives the money to the native peoples to not take down their forests."

Do he and his wife try to limit the number of flights they take? "No we don't. Because we can't." And recycling, he adds, is "almost certainly a waste of time and energy", while having a "green lifestyle" amounts to little more than "ostentatious grand gestures". He distrusts the notion of ethical consumption. "Because always, in the end, it turns out to be a scam ... or if it wasn't one in the beginning, it becomes one."

Somewhat unexpectedly, Lovelock concedes that the Mail's plastic bag campaign seems, "on the face of it, a good thing". But it transpires that this is largely a tactical response; he regards it as merely more rearrangement of Titanic deckchairs, "but I've learnt there's no point in causing a quarrel over everything". He saves his thunder for what he considers the emptiest false promise of all - renewable energy.

"You're never going to get enough energy from wind to run a society such as ours," he says. "Windmills! Oh no. No way of doing it. You can cover the whole country with the blasted things, millions of them. Waste of time."

This is all delivered with an air of benign wonder at the intractable stupidity of people. "I see it with everybody. People just want to go on doing what they're doing. They want business as usual. They say, 'Oh yes, there's going to be a problem up ahead,' but they don't want to change anything."

Lovelock believes global warming is now irreversible, and that nothing can prevent large parts of the planet becoming too hot to inhabit, or sinking underwater, resulting in mass migration, famine and epidemics. Britain is going to become a lifeboat for refugees from mainland Europe, so instead of wasting our time on wind turbines we need to start planning how to survive. To Lovelock, the logic is clear. The sustainability brigade are insane to think we can save ourselves by going back to nature; our only chance of survival will come not from less technology, but more.

Nuclear power, he argues, can solve our energy problem - the bigger challenge will be food. "Maybe they'll synthesise food. I don't know. Synthesising food is not some mad visionary idea; you can buy it in Tesco's, in the form of Quorn. It's not that good, but people buy it. You can live on it." But he fears we won't invent the necessary technologies in time, and expects "about 80%" of the world's population to be wiped out by 2100. Prophets have been foretelling Armageddon since time began, he says. "But this is the real thing."

Faced with two versions of the future - Kyoto's preventative action and Lovelock's apocalypse - who are we to believe? Some critics have suggested Lovelock's readiness to concede the fight against climate change owes more to old age than science: "People who say that about me haven't reached my age," he says laughing.

But when I ask if he attributes the conflicting predictions to differences in scientific understanding or personality, he says: "Personality."

There's more than a hint of the controversialist in his work, and it seems an unlikely coincidence that Lovelock became convinced of the irreversibility of climate change in 2004, at the very point when the international consensus was coming round to the need for urgent action. Aren't his theories at least partly driven by a fondness for heresy?

"Not a bit! Not a bit! All I want is a quiet life! But I can't help noticing when things happen, when you go out and find something. People don't like it because it upsets their ideas."

But the suspicion seems confirmed when I ask if he's found it rewarding to see many of his climate change warnings endorsed by the IPCC. "Oh no! In fact, I'm writing another book now, I'm about a third of the way into it, to try and take the next steps ahead."

Interviewers often remark upon the discrepancy between Lovelock's predictions of doom, and his good humour. "Well I'm cheerful!" he says, smiling. "I'm an optimist. It's going to happen."

Humanity is in a period exactly like 1938-9, he explains, when "we all knew something terrible was going to happen, but didn't know what to do about it". But once the second world war was under way, "everyone got excited, they loved the things they could do, it was one long holiday ... so when I think of the impending crisis now, I think in those terms. A sense of purpose - that's what people want."

At moments I wonder about Lovelock's credentials as a prophet. Sometimes he seems less clear-eyed with scientific vision than disposed to see the version of the future his prejudices are looking for. A socialist as a young man, he now favours market forces, and it's not clear whether his politics are the child or the father of his science. His hostility to renewable energy, for example, gets expressed in strikingly Eurosceptic terms of irritation with subsidies and bureaucrats. But then, when he talks about the Earth - or Gaia - it is in the purest scientific terms all.

"There have been seven disasters since humans came on the earth, very similar to the one that's just about to happen. I think these events keep separating the wheat from the chaff. And eventually we'll have a human on the planet that really does understand it and can live with it properly. That's the source of my optimism."

What would Lovelock do now, I ask, if he were me? He smiles and says: "Enjoy life while you can. Because if you're lucky it's going to be 20 years before it hits the fan."


 
see the graphs at the original site - entry for March 4th  (he's a Aussie)

http://antigreen.blogspot.com/

Tuesday, March 04, 2008

Global cooling predictions

An email to Marc Morano from Don Easterbrook below. Easterbrook is an emeritus professor of geology at Western Washington University. His bio is here. His email is dbunny@titan.cc.wwu.edu

What prompted me to send you some additional material was Revkin's NY Times article in which he

(1) quotes a bunch of CO2 dogmatists as saying the cooling is just a minor blip and we'll be back headed for toast very soon, and

(2) although he quotes you, he doesn't quote any scientists who have good data that what we're seeing is not just weather, but rather a fully expected change to a global cooling mode. So I sent you a bunch of data that I thought might be useful in responding to the global cooling deniers, namely:



1. We've been on a predicted cooling trend since 2002 (see above curve). The average of the four main temperature measuring methods is slightly cooler since 2002 (except for a brief el Nino interuption) and record breaking cooling this winter. The argument that this is too short a time period to be meanful would be valid were it not for the fact that this cooling exactly fits the pattern of timing of warm/cool cycles over the past 400 years and was predicted (see publications I sent earlier).

2. We are entering a solar cycle of much reduced sun spots, very similar to that which accompanied the change from the Medieval Warm Period to the Little Ice Age, which virtually all scientists agree was caused by solar variation. Thus, we seem to be headed for cooler temperatures as a result of reduced solar irradiance.

3. Sea surface temperatures in the NE Pacific mirror the atmospheric observations of cooling since 2002.

4. Some glaciers are slowing their rate of retreat in response to the past 6 years of cooling. (They aren't readvancing yet because it takes awhile for a turnaround.

So what is the significance of the present globally icy winter and slight cooling for the past 6 years? By itself, it's weather and arguably not statistically important. However, when considered in the light of the past 6-year cooling trend, the continuation of that pattern is important because if we are to believe the IPCC's prediction of a 1o F warming by 2011, that will require warming of almost 1o F in the next three years!

The IPCC recasts its predictions every year to match actual conditions so they appear to stay `on-track.' However, they made finite predictions some years ago and if IPCC is to remain credible, those predictions need to be accountable.

In a nutshell, in 2001, I put my reputation on the line and published my predictions for entering a global cooling cycle about 2007 (plus or minus 3-5 years), based on past glacial, ice core, and other data. As right now, my prediction seems to be right on target and what we would expect from the past climatic record, but the IPCC prediction is getting farther and farther off the mark.



With the apparent solar cooling cycle upon us, we have a ready explanation for global warming and cooling. If the present cooling trend continues, the IPCC reports will have been the biggest farce in the history of science. Anyway, I wanted to provide you with real data to substantiate the concept that we have entered a period of real global cooling, not just a cold winter.

 
My 2Cents on this Super thread,  First I believe with what I have read in MSM, on-line and just my own observations that Global Warming is an abused topic with so many agendas built into it that frankly I don't trust it.  I do follow the proponents of our weather is caused mainly from cycles of the Sun.  The why has been answered more then a few times on this thread and other means.  But it boils down to the size of the Sun, its known cycles and how they corelate to changes in Earth's Temp.  Next there is the fact that the Earth has gone through climatic change as far back as we have been able to search.  Outside of major traumatic events such as known meteor strikes this has or should be accepted as the Suns fluctuations being the main culprit.  One thing that I believe and is back up by recorded weather history is there is no way Man caused them ( talking pre industrial revolution here ). 

Now I know people mean well and there is allot of data out there screaming that Man is causing Global Warming,  but now we are starting to hear about nope it is going to cool not get hotter.  Frankly I don't care for either.  This is the Planet Earth in its history there have been the rise of more then one dominate species during differant time periods.  So I am not on the Global warming bandwagon nor am I on the cooling bandwagon.  I am on the Earth is going to change weather we like it or not band wagon.  We just have to see if we are the unlucky ones who are going to be living in a time that there is a major climatic shift and see if we as a species have evolved enough to be able to handle the repercussions. 

Now having said all that.  I do believe in conservationism.  Lower pollution levels are a good thing, not releasing toxic substances in our current amounts and trying to get things back to a more manageable level.  But that is more for the fact that I like clean air, trees, wild life.  I have seen pollution changes with my own eyes not by the temperature that happens but by looking at the smog that happens from large concentration belts.  Our water should remain clean, our forest strong our wild life thriving.  But that does not preclude using those things in a wise manner. 

I could go on more and will with directed questions or statements but I think I have said my peace.  Sorry if this is not backed by facts or references.  Just my opinion based on the "facts" I have seen.
 
It has always been the Sun.  The Sun and its cycles. Yes there are other factors like planetary orbits, including Human factors(we are one of many species who are part of the climate system, impact the climate system, change the climate system - think also beavers and termites !).  This is not news - it was part of my education in 2nd year Geomorphology Program courses taken in the early 70's

The whole Anthropogenic GhG thingy was the Global Environmental Industry finally ( after failing with the Club of Rome, Population Crisis I & II, Depleted Ozone et al scares) seizing upon a public relations campaign that could be sold as legitimate fear.  The final straw was getting the Goreacle, a desperate politician really needing a rehabilitation gig, to be the mouthpiece - he's a really good orator.

The GEI had 20+ years to spin their case as temperatures coinciding with a naturally occurring up-tick in the period 1975ish - 2000ish, but their time is up and the debacle of the scientific community as the Great Fraud is exposed  (yes scientists are motivated by Grant Money)  their credibility in all matters of science will be in shreds.  What started as "Global Warming" had to be morphed into "Climate Change" as the current cooling phase kicked in 6-7 years.  The title "Climate Change"  is as ridiculous as saying "Water Wet".

But the concept that a highly complex, very chaotic system can be driven by microscopic changes in our atmosphere due to slight increases in a minor trace gas, is as ludicrous in its precept as it is bold in its public relations value.


A well reasoned assessment here . . 

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/McClenneyPart_I.pdf   

PART I OF V

WILLIAM F. MCCLENNEY, P.G. R.E.A.

When I first heard it, I believed it. It made sense. I could see it easily and clearly. And that was

a long, long time ago. It seemed counterintuitive that anyone could or would not believe it. It

was that seminal. Homo Sapiens would cause the earth to warm, we now call it the Greenhouse

Gas theory, and it is now a law (at least in California).

But it was just a few years ago as the real hype got going that I had my first cause to question the

legality of what would soon be a law. And it happened in the oddest of ways. That occasioned a

journey that took me from realization to epiphany to more realizations until I finally got it.

I will take you on that journey, if you think you can handle it. But be well advised that due to the

Nine Times Rule there is only an 11.1% chance you will be able to follow me. In an advanced

course in Psychology taken some 30 years ago I learned that the human being is nine times more

susceptible to rumor than it is to fact. That simple rule explains a dramatic amount of human

behavior. To prove this rule all one needs to do is accurately answer this simple question: Which

religion is the correct one?

That’s what I thought.

So if you want to take the journey I did, brace yourself well. My religion is geology, and this

journey is the ultimate heresy. If you make it all the way to the end, and understand it all, you

will be amongst a very rare breed, those that made the cut on the Nine Times Rule. And you will

know how this fundamental rule has been revised, may possibly be revised again downwards,

and why. Because this journey I took, and that you may take, started out about climate change

and ended up somewhere else entirely. It ended up as part of the theory of everything.

THE FIRST HERESY

I had been hearing it for some time without it really registering. The new ruckus about global

warming. I was already a believer in this latest of all man’s religions. I had the faith. But

something started to niggle at the back of my geologic mind. The Intergovernmental Panel on

Climate Change (IPCC) was predicting sea levels might rise something like 40-60 centimeters

(about 2 feet) by the end of this century. Al Gore upped that by an order of magnitude to 20 feet,

not bad for an exaggeration. And that was what started me on this journey. How could both

these august sources be so far off? Al is probably off by a factor of 5, and the IPCC by a factor

of 50. Because that niggling in the back of my brain was protesting loudly enough to make it to

my consciousness.
 
I'm not sure if it shoudn't go to a separate thread, to keep posts on the track of the thread...

Sierra Club throws a sucker punch

If you are the Sierra Club, what would you call a senator who:
a) voted against oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge;
b) introduced legislation to cut greenhouse gas emissions; and
c) co-wrote a 3.5 million-acre statewide wilderness bill?

Answer: the enemy.

In the past two weeks, the Sierra Club has sent out two news releases and four e-mails to its members attacking GOP presidential candidate Sen. John McCain.
It has urged members to "spread the word" by writing to local newspapers."Let's place thousands of letters in papers around the country," the club said. Two such
letters have appeared on the pages and in online editions of the Seattle P-I.

As a longtime admirer of the Sierra Club, and tactical acumen, I am disgusted and disillusioned. Recently, this column argued that McCain has received too many
accolades and too little scrutiny from our capital's punditocracy. The reverse also holds true. When self-interested interest group leaders throw sucker punches,
they need to be called on it.

McCain is one of the few Republican politicians who has sailed against the party's anti-environmental tide. He has, year after year, sought to cap and cut carbon emissions into the atmosphere.
 
Since they are preaching an ideology, facts don't need to be considered. Look below:

http://www.thepolitic.com/archives/2008/03/04/breadlosers/

Breadlosers

I have to give credit to the Left for finally finding a way to market their ideology besides simply spending more or involving more government in our lives through this new junk science called global cooling nee climate change nee global warming. In the process, they have found a way of recapturing their deceptive tactics of the mid-20th century of framing their cause in a way that no one disagrees with on the surface, but hides lethal devils in the details; no one is against improving the environment, or social justice, or human rights, after all!

But, like almost all things that liberalism gets behind, the devil is very much in the details. A series of articles went largely unnoticed back in mid-February when we were concerned with John Tory’s fate, the Alberta election or the federal government’s lifespan. In them comes news that bread, particularly the stuff its made of (grain) has tripled in price in just a matter of months. Two factors are being blamed:

a)the rapid emergence of a middle class in the combined 2 billion-large areas of China and India (serious question: would it be improper to refer to this as Chindia from now on?)

and b) the increasing demand for ethanol as an energy source

We have no right or basis to blame the first point on anyone (in fact, kudos to the Asians who are beginning to enjoy a better standard of living!), however we should look into that latter one. Ethanol is a fairly plentiful chemical in our ecosystem, and the hippies love it because it’s a fairly clean, albeit highly inefficient source of energy (although don’t tell them that its mass is composed of over 50% carbon!). Don’t get me wrong either: if nothing else, I’m pro-moving away from oil just so we can stick it to the Saudis and eliminate the threat they pose to western civilization, however not only is the ethanol energy craze the philosopher’s stone of the modern era, it’s also the next best way of socialism causing a famine in the land.

Demonstrating that they really don’t understand economic forces, the greenies of the world praised ethanol as a cheap and renewable source of energy. Yes, it’s definately renewable but cheap is only a temporal trait as the market is always changing. If you need 1000 pounds of wheat to feed your population per day, and request another 500 pounds for energy purposes, demand goes up, and the price with it. Things could eventually stabilize with either continued breakthroughs in agricultural chemistry to improve grain yield, or us just planting more fields with grains, however I remain skeptical as energy demands have steadily increased over the past 100 years and will continue to as our population and technology increases. In the meantime, we really need to ask ourselves if forcing a child to do without an extra meal is worth the dubious effort to remove carbon from our atmosphere.
 
That last highlighted statement is especially ironic, since the only benifit of ethanol is to releive the strain on the need for non-renewable resources.  They actually release more carbon in the atmosphere than traditional fuels.
 
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