Going back to St Jean

[dangerboy]

But yes George, that's definitely dumb of me to say because I'm so involved with writing the curriculum for BMQs that I ought to know better. It should be common sense to me that there is no standard amount of times for doing the OC. Or, common sense would suggest that there's always some sort of standard, so to assume there is one in this case is logical.

Sorry to detract from the thread but one quick question; are you saying you are involved with writing the TP for BMQs or am I misunderstanding what you wrote?

 

[George Wallace]

No.  He was just being an ass.  I would just let it pass.  He has a long way to go and perhaps CAP will sort him out.  Maybe not.  If he manages to get through that and the following training, then he can try to get on his Platoon WOs good side and then perhaps go on a Writing Team and write the BMQ TP.  Until then, looking at his profile; he is an ocdt.

 

[Kat Stevens]

We only did the OBSTACLE COURSE four times on my basic training, once at the end of the stroll back from Granville, the week before grad.

 

[Lil_T]

George, I'm sure anyone with DIN access and a desire to waste the time searching could look up the PO/EOs for the Obstacle Course, if any of us remember once the break is over.  Though as far as the number of classes dedicated to it, I believe there is one, maybe two.  Just prior to running through the course.  Will have to confirm with my compatriots.

Don't be too hard on ballz George, I'm sure he'll be a great staff officer in a cubicle up here in Ottawa.  Why, I bet he could make an entire career out of it. 

 

[Brasidas]

...PO/EOs for the Obstacle Course, if any of us remember once the break is over. ..

My take was that he was kidding, Tanya; never heard of a PO or EO for the obstacle course.

 

[Lil_T]

Yes, and I was being sarcastic... Sad that it doesn't translate well over the interwebs. 

 

[Celticgirl]

That should have been posted in "Whats the dumbest thing you heard said today?" thread. 

There is NO standard as to how many times someone runs through the Obstacle Crse.

From what our course staff told us, this is absolutely correct. Completing the Confidence Course is not a PO. It is considered a PT class (or two, depending on how much time is slated for it, ours were usually 2 PTs). The number of times a platoon goes to the CC depends on what Standards has scheduled for that particular platoon. Sometimes, they can't fit in many visits, so a platoon will only go once or twice. Yet in other cases, there are lots of 'free' periods in which they can fit in visits to the CC, so a platoon might go half a dozen times in 14-15 weeks. Ergo, we can infer that going once or going half dozen times equates to the same thing, and that most recruits/candidates get a chance to go through the CC at least once, which is the goal, I would think. Even if they do not go - due to missing class because of illness, for example - it does not affect their standing on BM(O)Q at all. It's simply an exercise. Ditto rappelling. If you miss it, it's just a missed PT. Speaking of rappelling, we only do that once in basic training...why not 4, 5, or 6 times? I don't know anyone who was injured while rappelling, so what is the rationale of doing that once while doing the riskier CC multiple times? Both are physical activities meant to instill confidence, after all.

We lost 22 recruits on our course due to various reasons, including injuries. Most of them were not "plugs", either. One would think that Standards would want to increase the chances of recruits staying on platoon, whilst still maintaining the same standard for training across the board. Throwing in extra trips to the Confidence Course is simply adding unnecessary risks. No one is arguing that the BFT be abolished or that we don't have sleep dep exercises in the field. Those things result in injuries, too, but we are not subject to them arbitrarily. They are planned activities that take place at very specific points in the course. Can you imagine doing four 13k ruck marches in BM(O)Q, though? How many fewer graduates would we have then?

By the way, did you know that the Confidence Course in Borden has somewhere around 24 obstacles? Other than the few that were off limits due to needing some repair, my platoon did all of the obstacles each of the 4 times we visited the CC. JBoyd's platoon, on the other hand, got to try 4-5 obstacles on their first visit and then their second visit was cancelled. They may or may not have another period on the CC before grad. So where is the standardization there? (That's a rhetorical question, for those who may not catch it.  ;D)

 

[KingofKeys]

Why are you guys/gals bashing each other? Lets stick together, especially since you may all be working together one day. Anyway, I have a question: Can someone give me a summary of the obstacle course? Like exactly what you have to do from start to finish? Thankyou.

 

[ballz]

No.  He was just being an ***.

And what were you being? The kettle or the pot? :

EDIT: My opinion on this is clear, as is everybody else's, and there's really not much to debate or argue over. I'm out of this before it becomes a s**t slinging contest. George, if you've got anything to say to me you know where my inbox is.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

And your responses? They aren't gems either.

I would suggest that you sit back and reflect on your posts. Remember some of the members here have been in uniform longer that you have been walking the earth..... and might end up being staff for your CAP Course especially since its done at the "school of cool"

MILNET MENTOR

 

[Lil_T]

All negativity aside, I want to thank everyone who has offered and continues to offer their support to me while I'm dealing with my injury.  The words of encouragement do help.  Every day I try to overcome my fears and succeed a little more at a time.  I have my good days and my bad days - and I'm very lucky that my good days are outnumbering the bad. 

I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas (or seasonally appropriate holiday) and  Happy New Year!  :christmas happy:

T

 

[jeffb]

I am surprised that they would run anyone through an Obstacle/Confidence Course in the winter.  Every Base I have been on, the Obstacle Crse has been closed as being unsafe, for the winter.

I did BMOQ starting in Jan.- I was on platoon with CelticGirl-  and I do not think doing the obstacle course was especially dangerous. To my best recollection, we did the St. Jean course twice (maybe three times) and the Farnham course once. The only obstacles that you could really get hurt on are the cargo ladder and the rope obstacle that has been closed. Yes, I guess you could technically run full speed into the 6 foot wall but at worst you'd be looking at a broken foot. Frankly, I think you'd have just as much chance of a critical injury on a hot July day from heat related injuries as you would on a sunny, January or February day.

At the time I went through BMOQ, I remember feeling that the challenge course presented a level of risk that I wasn't comfortable with. However, given a year of reflection and after spending some more time in the training system, I've come to realize the importance of the challenge course in increasing my risk threshold and well, confidence. I think that had I been injured on the challenge course I would have been quite bitter, mostly at being stuck in the Mega for longer then I needed to be, but I now think that a certain level of managed risk was important to help me transition from a relatively risk adverse civy life to a more CF style of thinking. I'm sure my opinion will change given more time but for now, that's where I stand. :2c:

On an quasi-related note,  to Lil_T for displaying a positive attitude towards getting back up and conquering that which defeated her.

 

[Celticgirl]

I did BMOQ starting in Jan.- I was on platoon with CelticGirl-  and I do not think doing the obstacle course was especially dangerous. To my best recollection, we did the St. Jean course twice (maybe three times) and the Farnham course once. The only obstacles that you could really get hurt on are the cargo ladder and the rope obstacle that has been closed. Yes, I guess you could technically run full speed into the 6 foot wall but at worst you'd be looking at a broken foot. Frankly, I think you'd have just as much chance of a critical injury on a hot July day from heat related injuries as you would on a sunny, January or February day.

Hi Jeff! Nice to see you posting. 

I respect your opinion re: obstacle courses on BM(O)Q. However, I do want to point out that there have been far worse injuries on these obstacles than a broken foot (how's yours by the way?).  I recall after our first trip to the obstacle course in January hearing of a female recruit who had broken her back falling off the cargo netting.  And when I was on PAR, I met a guy on PAT who had a broken collar bone (can't remember which obstacle he fell off, but I think it was the one we called the CF 98 - or "Rope of Death", lol). Also, on the platoon I just graduated with, one guy cracked several of his ribs trying to get over the 8 foot wall. He did actually succeed in getting over eventually, and I think was the only person to do so without assistance.    My point being that while there are more minor injuries than major ones, there are definitely some fairly serious injuries that occur. Even minor ones (like a broken foot) will put a candidate off the course. I would not have been happy if I'd had a broken arm, I can tell you. As you know, this has been a rather long and arduous journey for me.

On an quasi-related note,  to Lil_T for displaying a positive attitude towards getting back up and conquering that which defeated her.

Ditto that! It shows true grit and dedication sticking with it through all that. I hope she makes it!

By the way, Jeff, T. and I were talking about you the other day and saying we should all get together before I head back to ON for my next course.  :nod: I'll send you a msg on FB sometime in case you don't see this.

 

[Lil_T]

thank you both.  While I'm not going to chime in on the OC talk anymore, I just would like to say that I have my own issues I need to deal with - and really - that thing is the least of my worries.  I just hope that when the time comes I can put this whole shitty incident behind me and push forward.

 

[Lil_T]

Well.... looks like it's going to take a little while longer for me to get back on course.  Seems the proximal third of my tibia (by my knee) doesn't want to heal properly.  So no extra weight for the time being.  Which means no rucksacks, no FFO marches, no carrying anything heavier than a laundry bag, and definitely no lower body weight training.  FML.  Also means no chance in hell of getting back on course any time soon. 

I won't lie, I'm a little depressed over the lack of progress with the proximal third.... I thought for sure it'd be a bit better by now.  Instead, I get to go back AGAIN in 6 weeks and hope for the best.

Well, there's my update, I'm going to go wallow in a pile of chocolate cheesecake.

 

[Ksiiqtaboo]

awwe lil i was hoping to meet you on the feb 22nd BMQ but you got to take care of that leg can i have some cheesecake to?

 

[x512er]

Hang in there  T , sounds like your head is in the right place to succeed. Like the old saying goes "tough times never last, but tough people do"...........

 

[Lil_T]

Thanks . Trying to keep a good attitude about this shitshow of a situation is not easy. But I'm trying. Once again, I appreciate the support.

 

[Ksiiqtaboo]

well we all with you the best T keep positive

 

[mariomike]

Thanks . Trying to keep a good attitude about this shitshow of a situation is not easy. But I'm trying. Once again, I appreciate the support.

Lil-T. For what it is worth, you were injured in the Line of Duty. Critically Injured. That doesn't take away your pain, or loss of enjoyment. But, I have a lot of respect for any member who is injured while following orders.