Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[Colin Parkinson]

These are not things that could be fixed with a new rank group. Compensation problems will not be solved with a new rank class. Imposing of career development requirements (courses & postings) beyond core technical competencies will not go away with a new rank class. Commanders ignoring technical expertise will not stop because of a new rank class. Crappy HR systems and practices will not go away with a new rank class. Some of these problems are even likely to be exacerbated.

We have doctors who think they should have access to more GSO jobs through careers to build competitiveness for access to more GOFO jobs at the end of their careers … because that’s just fair. If elements of the medical community can lose focus on why they exist to that degree, we are not insulting other specialists from the same mistakes.

Create a US style WO class and our egalitarian views will quickly decide that they should have access to CO positions because they are capable of doing the job so it is fair that they should have a path to do that (and, the template US WO class already has that path). But then that path becomes core to the occupation, and we start pulling people away from the technical functions for which the occupation exists so they can attend courses and experience jobs to one day be ready to fill a position that does not require the exquisite competencies that the individual actually embodies (and for which they an appropriate paycheque).

Maybe the Navy can do the same Army's 'best kept secret' floats

 

[FJAG]

Maybe the Navy can do the same Army's 'best kept secret' floats

Took a tour on one of those in the late 70s at Ft Eustis. An interesting concept. At the time the US Army had several "Terminal" battalions which are used to unload ships to shore including over the beach operations.

Each boat is skippered by a US-style WO/CWO. Each boat had two bunk rooms - a larger one and a smaller one. As a result, they can operate with mixed crews.

 

[Maxman1]

Why does "new rank class" have to solve so many problems? I can see the point of bringing in helicopter pilots or physician's assistants or IT/comm/EW geeks with no expectation that they will ever "command" much beyond a small team. No commission needed. Waste of years to advance from Pte(R) to whatever NCM rank is thought to be competitive for compensation.

Whether or not some people might in future agitate for additional responsibilities isn't relevant; it's just made-up fear. The universe of made-up fears is approximately infinite. Which do we allow into the estimate, and which are excluded? Is the institution incapable of saying "No, the lane for this rank class is what it is"?

How about a rank of Technical Sergeant with about a dozen or more pay levels.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Maybe the Navy can do the same Army's 'best kept secret' floats

Had some drinks with those folks at the Avalon in Chania, Crete (Souda Bay). Good lads!

 

[GK .Dundas]

I suspect it lacks the personal for a full CMBG anyway.

The more I think about it and the more I read I get the rather serious apprehension that even in an emergency.
We'd either be unable to deploy a CMBG or basically break the Army in the process .
And to be quite honest there are times that I suspect that trying to deploy a Battle Group wouldn't do much the same.

 

[RangerRay]

The Army needs to focus on where and how to generate operational outputs. Units in the part time force need proximity to training areas and support for their assigned roles. This means revisiting and changing roles for units. Perhaps artillery is a bad for for Sault Ste Marie and they could be made an infantry platoon. Maybe the BCD should be a transportation company. And so on through the units to identify meaningful, realizable roles.

Re-roll the Dragoons into infantry and merge them with the Rocky Mountain Rangers, rename them the “British Columbia Rangers” (BC Rang), done!

I’ll accept my consulting fee in cash or cheque.

 

[dapaterson]

Re-roll the Dragoons into infantry and merge them with the Rocky Mountain Rangers, rename them the “British Columbia Rangers” (BC Rang), done!

I’ll accept my consulting fee in cash or cheque.

Too many combat arms in the Army Reserve. Need a lot more support - truckers and MMTs and cooks.

 

[Furniture]

Re-roll the Dragoons into infantry and merge them with the Rocky Mountain Rangers, rename them the “British Columbia Rangers” (BC Rang), done!

I’ll accept my consulting fee in cash or cheque.

Dragoons are mounted infantry, so keep the names as battalions of the Western Infantry Regiment.

 

[ytz]

Pay and bennies is most certainly part of the solution. Not the whole, but I would argue a 1/3 of the solution.

The retiree club on fully indexed pensions here: "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas."

I think the retirees should give up inflation indexing. Just like the troops they want to throw under the proverbial bus.

 

[FJAG]

Too many combat arms in the Army Reserve. Need a lot more support - truckers and MMTs and cooks.

All trainable through the Community College System with a short Mil specific conversion course. Truckers and Cooks (and their trucks and kitchens) are a particularly good ARes fit. MMTs to an extent but we really need more as full-timers. Maybe train them up as reservists, give them a two year Class B contract to be basic labour and apprentices then on Class A reserve status for 3 mandatory years.

 

[Furniture]

All trainable through the Community College System with a short Mil specific conversion course.

Except, those people want full time employment, not a few weekends a year, and some "training" nights.

I spend a fair amount of time talking to people in the food service industry... None of them want a "part-time" job with the CAF on top of their three other jobs. Imagining otherwise is just militia myth fantasy.

 

[FJAG]

Except, those people want full time employment, not a few weekends a year, and some "training" nights.

I spend a fair amount of time talking to people in the food service industry... None of them want a "part-time" job with the CAF on top of their three other jobs. Imagining otherwise is just militia myth fantasy.

I'm not a fan of "training nights." I am of a weekend a month and two weeks in the summer focusing on active military skills. I want just enough payback to allow them to have a proper civilian career with minimal interference from the military. I'm looking for a base of people who can be mobilized in a hurry in the event of a major crisis.

I don't want them looking at the ARes as a "part-time" job. I want them to look at having a full-time civilian job with "part-time" military adventure that you don't get as a civilian - firing rifles, "camping in the woods", throwing grenades, learning combat casualty care etc. - with a bit more pay, a modest pension at the end, and some additional education benefits further on in their career.

I plan to get them in the door by offering to pay for their tuition for their full-time civilian career, offering them full-time paid summer employment in between semesters as they convert their civilian skills to military ones, and keeping them for a few years after that by way of obligatory service of such a mild nature that it isn't a problem for them or their employers and families. I plan to keep some around after that by offering a modest reenlistment bonus that's just enough to be interesting for a bit more obligatory service, pension and education benefits.

For those in special categories where we have a full-time need I would offer some full-time service in their field after DP 1 training is completed which allows them to build a resume, gain experience and earn some cash before again keeping them on a part-time service while they go off to develop a full-time civilian career.

Just looking at "food services." I'm looking at am army structure that would have some 48 hybrid battalions of all natures. That's roughly 130-150 ARes company-sized sub-units of all natures. At roughly 3 cooks per sub-unit that means we're looking for 400-450 ARes cook positions across the board. It's hard to get numbers but some that I've seen indicated there are some 20,000 students in food service programs including apprenticeships at any given time. Based on an obligatory service program I expect that after 4 years, The ARes will probably keep one in three, have one in three go RegF and lose the third one outright. That means we need to have a replacement rate of roughly 300 per year across the country. I do not see that as a major challenge if we run the system right instead of having the haphazard shit show we have now.

 

[Furniture]

I'm not a fan of "training nights." I am of a weekend a month and two weeks in the summer focusing on active military skills. I want just enough payback to allow them to have a proper civilian career with minimal interference from the military. I'm looking for a base of people who can be mobilized in a hurry in the event of a major crisis.

I don't want them looking at the ARes as a "part-time" job. I want them to look at having a full-time civilian job with "part-time" military adventure that you don't get as a civilian - firing rifles, "camping in the woods", throwing grenades, learning combat casualty care etc. - with a bit more pay, a modest pension at the end, and some additional education benefits further on in their career.

I plan to get them in the door by offering to pay for their tuition for their full-time civilian career, offering them full-time paid summer employment in between semesters as they convert their civilian skills to military ones, and keeping them for a few years after that by way of obligatory service of such a mild nature that it isn't a problem for them or their employers and families. I plan to keep some around after that by offering a modest reenlistment bonus that's just enough to be interesting for a bit more obligatory service, pension and education benefits.

For those in special categories where we have a full-time need I would offer some full-time service in their field after DP 1 training is completed which allows them to build a resume, gain experience and earn some cash before again keeping them on a part-time service while they go off to develop a full-time civilian career.

Just looking at "food services." I'm looking at am army structure that would have some 48 hybrid battalions of all natures. That's roughly 130-150 ARes company-sized sub-units of all natures. At roughly 3 cooks per sub-unit that means we're looking for 400-450 ARes cook positions across the board. It's hard to get numbers but some that I've seen indicated there are some 20,000 students in food service programs including apprenticeships at any given time. Based on an obligatory service program I expect that after 4 years, The ARes will probably keep one in three, have one in three go RegF and lose the third one outright. That means we need to have a replacement rate of roughly 300 per year across the country. I do not see that as a major challenge if we run the system right instead of having the haphazard shit show we have now.

I love where you're coming from, but based on my very recent experiences talking to the kind of people we want, they don't want another burden/job.

When people are working 2+ jobs to keep the lights on, and a roof over their head, the reserves aren't even a consideration.

Until the GoC cracks the housing problem, the PRes problem is unlikely to be resolved, regardless of what ideas we come up with.

 

[FJAG]

Until the GoC cracks the housing problem, the PRes problem is unlikely to be resolved, regardless of what ideas we come up with.

I don't see the correlation between housing and the ARes.

My first four years in the army were in the Militia in Toronto and I lived at home while going to school. That's where I think our targets should be - young folks in school, unmarried and living at home in bigger cities.

We need to be geared to high volume turnover but should also have terms of obligatory service to get buy back for the training investment - that and retention incentives. Turnover is a way of life but that turnover needs to be managed. If we lose them after three or four years as they get married, get a more demanding job etc - that's okay. Enough will stick to become the next set of young officers and NCOs and quite a few move on to the RegF which is also okay.

The ARes should always be predominantly a pool of young folks. We don't need or want messes full of old retired LCols and RSMs. Use the RegF for that. And I do agree. If we want proper urban hybrid units then the CAF had better ensure that adequate PMQs are available in the cities at a reasonable subsidized rent for the RegF component of those units.

 

[Furniture]

I don't see the correlation between housing and the ARes.

My first four years in the army were in the Militia in Toronto and I lived at home while going to school. That's where I think our targets should be - young folks in school, unmarried and living at home in bigger cities.

We need to be geared to high volume turnover but should also have terms of obligatory service to get buy back for the training investment - that and retention incentives. Turnover is a way of life but that turnover needs to be managed. If we lose them after three or four years as they get married, get a more demanding job etc - that's okay. Enough will stick to become the next set of young officers and NCOs and quite a few move on to the RegF which is also okay.

The ARes should always be predominantly a pool of young folks. We don't need or want messes full of old retired LCols and RSMs. Use the RegF for that. And I do agree. If we want proper urban hybrid units then the CAF had better ensure that adequate PMQs are available in the cities at a reasonable subsidized rent for the RegF component of those units.

Again, I see what you're going for, but I don't think the current generation has an appetite for what you're offering. If the PRes can at best offer a crappy part-time job with a lot of expectations, why would anyone waste their time?

Why sign on for restrictions when you can live at home, working part time elsewhere, and have zero obligations?

 

[FJAG]

Again, I see what you're going for, but I don't think the current generation has an appetite for what you're offering. If the PRes can at best offer a crappy part-time job with a lot of expectations, why would anyone waste their time?

Why sign on for restrictions when you can live at home, working part time elsewhere, and have zero obligations?

Where else do you get to fire automatic rifles every year?

 

[Brad Sallows]

New recruitment/retention proposal. Slightly higher individual skill standards to be met, along with absolute attendance and fitness-for-deployment (at own expense). Meeting these requirements entitles any member under age 30 to cast one additional vote (probably by mail) in federal elections in a riding of choice.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Where else do you get to fire automatic rifles every year?

I like how you still know how the ammo budget really works….

 

[ytz]

I love where you're coming from, but based on my very recent experiences talking to the kind of people we want, they don't want another burden/job.

When people are working 2+ jobs to keep the lights on, and a roof over their head, the reserves aren't even a consideration.

Until the GoC cracks the housing problem, the PRes problem is unlikely to be resolved, regardless of what ideas we come up with.

Some people refuse to have perspective on how young and working class people live and are struggling and seem insistent on making sure enlisted in the CAF are in the same bind. All to live in the fantasy that the Reg F is bloated and irrelevant instead of the reality that the Reg F is largely emaciated, relative to tasks given.

Why the heck would a working class person struggling to make ends meet and get decent housing sign up for a part time job that doesn't pay exceptionally well and is very demanding on their time, and subjects them to random disruptive call ups that could actually mess up their real livelihoods?

 

[ytz]

Rumint around Ottawa says there are major changes coming to pay and benefits.

Notable amongst what I have heard.

1) Back to 20 yrs to qualify for pension. So they can encourage people are the end of the 12 yr mark of their first engagements to keep going till 20 yrs.

2) More generous pensions for those who stay longer. For example, going from 2% per year to 3% per year after the 20 yr mark. So that a lot more people stay 30 yrs and max out at 70%.

3) More leave after 20 yrs.

This is all aside from usual pay increase rumours. But first time I've heard real thought given to asymmetric pensions.