Griffon Helicopters, INGRESS and Kandahar [Udate: Deployment officially announced!]

[The Bread Guy]

MSM version here, with the usual disclaimer....

The Canadian Forces is expanding its presence in the skies over Afghanistan with it's own air wing that will serve under the auspices of the NATO command.  Canada's battle group moved into southern Afghanistan in 2006 without any helicopters, unlike the British, U.S., and Dutch forces.  The lack of air assets forced the Canadians to rely heavily on road convoys which has proven dangerous for troops because of improvised explosive devices and suicide bombers.  Brig.-Gen. Denis Thompson, the commander of Task Force Kandahar, said this is the airforce "equivalent of committing a brigade" to overseas operations.  The wing will have at its disposal six new civilian Mi-8 helicopters, used U.S. Chinooks to be delivered next year and unmanned surveillance aircraft.  The aircraft will be part of a NATO pool but the air wing will give Canada more leverage in the struggle for the use of air assets.

CBC Radio reports on this focus on air assets (first time a CAN Air Wing has deployed since WW2), link to Manley recommendations, and the fact that this is an increase in the number of troops.

 

[PanaEng]

MSM version here, with the usual disclaimer....CBC Radio reports on this focus on air assets (first time a CAN Air Wing has deployed since WW2), link to Manley recommendations, and the fact that this is an increase in the number of troops.

Is it just that my AF terminology is lacking or didn't we deploy AF assets for the Balkans and Iraq?

 

[Gasplug]

Is it just that my AF terminology is lacking or didn't we deploy AF assets for the Balkans and Iraq?

PanaEng,

The helos in VK were a only a detachment.  I seem to remember that there were 4 but I could be wrong. So it looks like the difference is in numbers of deployed airframes.

Gasplug

 

[Old Sweat]

Is it just that my AF terminology is lacking or didn't we deploy AF assets for the Balkans and Iraq?

We weren't in Iraq. However if you are referring to the First Gulf War, we had a large CF18 squadron based in the Gulf.

 

[GDawg]

And the bombing campaign in Kosovo.

 

[rampage800]

KJ

I'll take a quick stab at that one, the Griffons might fly top cover for a CASEVAC bird but doubt they would do it themselves. If they were they'd have to have it configured at all times(with an escort) plus flight medics on so I just don't see it being feasible. That being said in dire circumstances I'm sure they will/would.

Thats just my opinion

 

[Sf2]

There are no flight medics on CASEVAC.  That's the difference between CASEVAC and MEDEVAC

 

[Cleared Hot]

You sure about that? I'm pretty sure that CASEVAC is removal of a combat casualty from the battlefield while MEDEVAC is movement onward or not from a combat zone.

I.e. From the battlefield to KAF = CASEVAC.  From KAF to Landshtuhl (sp?) Germany = MEDEVAC.

 

[rampage800]

Pretty sure there is medics/PJs on CASEVACs, unless it changed in the last little bit but a 15-20 min ride is a long way to go for a casualty with a FE who knows basic FA.

 

[Cleared Hot]

Either way, it doesn't matter.  As the article says the aircraft/crews will go into a pool.  We will bid for missions based on requirements and will get the most appropriate airframe/capability for the mission as available.  Just because we now have airframes over there does not mean we will only be flying in Canadian ones, it just means that we are no longer having to settle for the scraps.  The Griffon is not the best med/casevac bird over there so they will leave that task to the experts.  As for one allocated for something else and being re-tasked in the middle of the mission because we take a casualty, I don't think so.  It sounds good and patriotic here without the bullets flying, but aircraft are controlled at the highest levels and the reality is not so simple especially when we own but don't control them and oh by the way, there is already a very robust system to deal with casualty extraction.

 

[Run away gun]

  As for one allocated for something else and being re-tasked in the middle of the mission because we take a casualty, I don't think so.  It sounds good and patriotic here without the bullets flying, but aircraft are controlled at the highest levels and the reality is not so simple especially when we own but don't control them and oh by the way, there is already a very robust system to deal with casualty extraction.

That is the way it works. MEDEVAC is the number one priority in theatre.

 

[Cleared Hot]

Yes it is, but if you are the supported commander (let's say a dismounted Coy commander) don't think for a second you will be able to order your armed recce bird to land in a hot LZ and pick up a casualty.

 

[Run away gun]

Roger, I thought you were saying that birds would not be re-tasking from another location to pick up casualties. My bad.

 

[rampage800]

To the best of my knowledge the only helos that p/u casualties are ones solely dedicated to CASEVAC, I'm sure there has been the odd exception but very few and far between, other choppers are just not equipped to deal with it nor do they seldom have the expertise on-board at the time to keep lets say a Pri 1 Cas alive long enough to make it back to the Role 3. Totally understand that CASEVAC is Pri 1 over there and it has to be  but I believe they are talking about the escorts and not the medical bird itself

 

[Spr.Earl]

I have just returned from a TAV where we have built the infrastructure for 408 for the Chinook's and UAV's.
Now it is up to 408.
Yes all is not complete but they have the basic's to perform thier job.

 

[Strike]

I have just returned from a TAV where we have built the infrastructure for 408 for the Chinook's and UAV's.
Now it is up to 408.
Yes all is not complete but they have the basic's to perform thier job.

But my office isn't done yet!  ;D

 

[Nfld Sapper]

And they are in theater now,

Canadian-made Griffon helicopters arrive in Kandahar
Last Updated: Saturday, December 20, 2008 | 3:08 PM ET CBC News

The first of Canada's armed CH-146 Griffon helicopters arrived at Kandahar Airfield on Saturday.

The six helicopters, and two more that are expected to be deployed early next year, will provide escort and protection for the larger U.S. CH-47D Chinook transport helicopters also being used by Canadians based in southern Afghanistan.

The lumbering Chinooks are more vulnerable to attack by ground fire and rocket-propelled grenades, so they typically travel with smaller, armed escorts like the Griffons.

The smaller craft have been given extra sensors and Gatling guns on top of their existing side-door machine-guns and armour plating, military officials say.

The Griffons will give air cover to ground convoys and will be on standby to evacuate battlefield casualties, they say.

The commander of Canada's air wing, Col. Christopher Coates, said the Griffons may also be used to spot roadside bombs, which have killed more than half of the 103 Canadian soldiers lost in the Afghanistan mission since it began in 2002.

 

[Loachman]

...armour plating...

Snort.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Snort.

Hey I don't write it, I only post it  ;D

 

[rampage800]

Oh good, just what Canada needs over there, another full Colonel

Its great that we have our own organic assets but we as a TF are way way too top heavy.