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Griffon Helicopters, INGRESS and Kandahar [Udate: Deployment officially announced!]

GAP

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GRIFFONS ONE STEP CLOSER TO KANDAHAR
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The Griffons are one step closer to their deployment to Afghanistan as well as in support of 2010 Olympic security.

This came in from the government the other day (I edited it for space):

“Christian Paradis, Minister of Public Works and Government Services Canada and Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence announced the government has awarded a contract to L-3 Wescam Inc., Burlington, Ontario, for an electro-optical and infrared sensor system to be installed on the CH-146 Griffon helicopter. This procurement has a value, including options, of $25.9 million.

The equipment procured through this project will enable the Griffon helicopter with the capability to provide escort and surveillance support to land operations.

Known as the Interoperable Griffon Reconnaissance Escort Surveillance System (INGRESS), the project involves the procurement of a common electro-optical/infrared sensor system that can be installed on the CH-146 Griffon along with equipment that will allow for the operation of the sensor for Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) and Escort tasks. A formal Request for Proposal (RFP) for INGRESS was issued on MERX, the government's electronic tendering service, on April 16, 2008. The RFP closed on May 23, 2008. The evaluation of bids was concluded on June 2, 2008.”

So…..I’m told the INGRESS project will acquire 19 electro-optical/infra-red sensor systems to be installed on the helicopters. The project will also see the procurement of a door-mounted gun system, most likely a mini-gun.

“This will give the Griffon a sensor capability for domestic operations and a sensor and weapons capability for force protection, for ground mobility and tactical air mobility,” Canadian Air Force spokesman Major Jim Hutcheson said a few months ago.

Sixty-four Griffons would be modified to carry the equipment.

The first delivery of the systems would be in November. The final delivery would be by the summer of next year. Bell Helicopter in Mirabel would be installing the systems on board the Griffons.

The sensors would be configured to allow for easy installation and removal and the modification of existing Griffon avionics would not be required.

The program would produce two types of upgraded Griffons, according to Hutcheson. There would be the intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance configuration and an escort configuration Griffon. Both would use a common EO/IR sensor.

The ISR configuration will be able to detect, recognize and identify objects as small in size as a human being and transmit video imagery via a data link. A laser system will also be available for ranging and marking.

The escort configuration would consist of cockpit-mounted sensor controls, imagery and a multi-functional digital moving map display but would not include a data link. Up to four sensor packages for the ISR configuration will be procured and up to 15 packages for the escort configuration will be required.

The project is also calling for a door-mounted crew-served weapon for the escort configuration.

The Air Force is considering sending some of the modified Griffons to Afghanistan to accompany the Chinook helicopters it hopes to acquire at some point.

“The modified Griffon, the INGRESS, would be eligible to go to Afghanistan sometime after 2009 when the Chinooks would go,” Hutcheson said.
More on link

INGRESS: New Eyes for Canada’s Griffon Helicopters
15-Jul-2008 14:17 EDT
Article Link

In December 2005, “Canada Purchases $200M in Equipment for Operation ARCHER in Afghanistan” noted the issues created by Canada’s complete lack of integrated in-theater helicopter support. Worse, the Canadian Forces faced an equally complete lack of options. Canada had never operated attack helicopters, so there were none to be had. Its heavy lift CH-47s had been sold to the Dutch in 1991, and the program to belatedly replace them cannot deliver before 2011-2012. The navy’s Sea King fleet was dangerously old and needed for maritime roles, and their replacement CH-148 Cyclones/H-92 Superhawks have yet to be delivered. New CH-149 Cormorant/EH101 search-and-rescue helicopters are non-military versions that are needed along Canada’s huge coastlines, and the helicopters have encountered serious and long-running reliability issues during their short lifetimes. Finally, other Army helicopters like the CH-146 Griffon/ Bell 412 lacked the carrying capacity required to operate as true utility helicopters in Afghanistan’s performance-sapping high altitudes and hot temperatures.

Outside organizations like the Canadian-American Strategic Review (CASR) had looked at this problem, and proposed a pair of solutions. One option involved buying, leasing, or trading for Mi-17 helicopters used by Afghanistan’s air force and by several NATO countries. Faced with a Parliamentary threat of forced withdrawal unless it produced transport helicopters in a timely manner, the Canadian government finally signed a contract in April 2008 to buy 6 used CH-47Ds instead, and have them delivered by 2009. The other CASR proposal looked at the Bell 412’s strengths and limitations. It argued that CH-146 Griffons could be turned into armed reconnaissance helicopters that would emulate the US Marines’ UH-1Ns by providing overwatch, escorting transport helicopters, and even performing limited casualty-evacuation duties.

Now, a program called INGRESS is taking the first steps along very similar lines, in order to prepare Canada’s Griffons for front-line deployment…

The Interoperable Griffon Reconnaissance Escort Surveillance System program aimed to install surveillance and targeting turrets in Canada’s CH-146 Griffons, “along with equipment that will allow for the operation of the sensor for Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) and Escort tasks.”

INGRESS was let as a formal RFP on Canada’s MERX system in April 2008. Bids closed on May 23/08, and on July 14/08, the Canadian government announced that L-3 Wescam Inc. in Burlington, Ontario, Canada had won a C$ 25.9 million (about $25.8 million, includes value-added tax) contract.
More on link
 
From what I read - it looks like the EO/IR gear will be accessed up front.  The crew-served weapon will continue to be manned from the back (i.e. FE or GIB)
 
As much as I would love to see our guys over there flying providing escort to Chinooks,

I think I would prefer Apache's with much more armament.  I don't know how they compare in regards to distance, crew training in this aspect, etc so I won't comment on that.

(written this way to avoid my typical one liners)
 
GAP said:
(....)

This came in from the government the other day (I edited it for space):

(....)

And here's the rest of the news release.......

Government of Canada Invests in Equipment for the Forces, Contract Awarded for Surveillance System

For immediate release

GATINEAU, Quebec, July 14, 2008 — The Honourable Christian Paradis, Minister of Public Works and Government Services Canada and Secretary of State (Agriculture), and the Honourable Peter Gordon MacKay, Minister of National Defence and Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, today announced the Government has awarded a contract to L-3 Wescam Inc., Burlington, Ontario, for an electro-optical and infrared sensor system to be installed on the CH-146 Griffon helicopter. This procurement has a value, including options, of $25.9 million, including G.S.T.

“This contract will provide the Canadian Forces with an excellent surveillance system, while ensuring best value for Canadian taxpayers,” said Minister Paradis. “The equipment procured through this project will enable the Griffon helicopter with the capability to provide escort and surveillance support to land operations.”

"The government is committed to providing the men and women of the Canadian Forces with the best equipment," said Minister MacKay. "This system will ensure continued success on missions both in Canada and abroad, thereby safeguarding the rights and freedoms enjoyed by all Canadians."

Known as the Interoperable Griffon Reconnaissance Escort Surveillance System (INGRESS), the project involves the procurement of a common electro-optical/infrared sensor system that can be installed on the CH-146 Griffon along with equipment that will allow for the operation of the sensor for Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) and Escort tasks.

A formal Request for Proposal (RFP) for INGRESS was issued on MERX™, the government’s electronic tendering service, on April 16, 2008. The RFP closed on May 23, 2008. The evaluation of bids was concluded on June 2, 2008, in accordance with the plan detailed in the RFP to determine the winning bidder.

- 30 -
 
According to today's news (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/War_Terror/2008/07/26/6272556-cp.html) "Canada may expand its troop commitment in Afghanistan by almost 10 per cent in order to service the helicopters about to be deployed to the region, Foreign Affairs Minister David Emerson indicated Saturday. "  Note that the writer is speculating: He appeared to be referring to the half-dozen helicopters Canada expects to have in place by February."

It was previously reported (can't find the link) that if the Chinook purchase happens then the Griffons would go to act as escort aircraft.


 
I have thought about this for a while and do not understand why Canada has not thought of obtaining any Apache helicopters.?  Why is is that we only have transport helicopters and only now are upgrading the Griffen to do escort duty with new targeting systems.  Canada needs choppers that can protect our troops and other helicopters doing the job of transport.

I think that 40-50 of the Apache Longbow would do the job and some of them could be stationed up in the North Artic where the Dutch so nicly stuck their flag and said this is our land (by the way are they still there.?) and we will defend it.

If we had Apache's up there then it never would have happened.
 
mikhar said:
I have thought about this for a while and do not understand why Canada has not thought of obtaining any Apache helicopters.? 

We've had this discussion on here before, look it up.

in the North Artic where the Dutch so nicly stuck their flag and said this is our land (by the way are they still there.?) and we will defend it.

That was Denmark not the Dutch, look it up.

While the AH-64D would be very nice, i hardly think that Longbow (thats the millimetric radar that sits on top of the rotor mast) is not all that required in our context.
 
You will see there are plenty of threads regarding the pros and cons of various helicopter gunships including the Apache already.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
Oh, and it's Griffon, not Griffen.  I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to the name of my aircraft.
 
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2813
 
I don't know the difference in power between the Griffon and Kiowa Warrior, but from what I've read they're doing pretty well in Iraq and Afghanistan. This should be interesting to see. Honestly, its nice to see the Air Force in the game. Hopefully the pilots know what they're getting themselves into.
 
OH-58D Kiowa Warrior
General characteristics

Crew: 2 pilots
Length: 40 ft 8 in (12.39 m)
Rotor diameter: 35 ft 0 in (10.67 m)
Height: 7 ft 6 in (2.29 m)
Empty weight: 3,290 lb (1,490 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 5,200 lb (2,358 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Rolls-Royce T703-AD-700A or 250-C30R/3 turboshaft, 650 eshp (485 kW)
Fuel capacity: 110 US gal (454 L)

Performance
Maximum speed: 138 mph (222 km/h)
Cruise speed: 125 mph (201 km/h)
Range: 345 mi (556 km)
Service ceiling 20,500 ft (6,250 m)
Rate of climb: 1,615 ft/min (8.2 m/s)

CH-146 Griffon
General characteristics

Crew: Three (pilot, co-pilot & flight engineer)
Capacity: 12 troops or 6 stretchers
Length: 17.1 m (56 ft 1 in)
Rotor diameter: 14 m (45 ft 11 in)
Height: 4.6 m (15 ft 1 in)
Max takeoff weight: 5,355 kg (11,900 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6T-3D turboshaft engine, 900 shp (671 kW) each

Performance
Maximum speed: 260 km/h (139 knots, 160 mph)
Cruise speed: 220 km/h (118 knots, 136 mph)
Range: 656 km (354 nm, 405 mi)





 
Ottawa to send attack helicopters to Afghanistan
Updated Wed. Nov. 26 2008 3:47 PM ET The Canadian Press
Article Link

OTTAWA -- Defence Minister Peter MacKay told the House of Commons today that eight specially modified CH-146 Griffon helicopters will be sent to Kandahar in the new year to fly escort for the new CH-47 Chinook transport choppers.

The move represents an about-face for the Defence Department, which had asked NATO allies to fill that role.

The air force has wanted to send Griffons overseas since the start of the mission in 2006, but Gen. Rick Hillier, the former chief of defence staff, said no.

A small number of Griffon light utility helicopters have been adapted to carry missiles, a machine-gun and advanced sensors.

Big transport helicopters, such as the Chinook, rarely operate in combat zones without attack helicopters to protect them against ground fire.
More on link
 
Canada will arm Griffons to protect transport choppers in Afghanistan
Last Updated: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 | 6:10 PM ET Comments6Recommend4
CBC News

Specially modified helicopter gunships will escort Canada's new Chinook transport helicopters on operations in Afghanistan when they come into service in the new year, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said Wednesday.

The eight specially modified CH-146 Griffon utility helicopters will be equipped with large machine guns and sensors.

They will escort and protect six new CH-47 Chinooks, heavy-lift choppers already stationed at the Kandahar airfield.

"This is going to give us increased … aerial capacity, it will also save lives," MacKay said.

"If we have people not traveling on roads, being able to get to forward operating bases and other parts outside the wire, this is absolutely going to impact on our operational ability in theatre."

Big transport helicopters such as Chinooks are vulnerable to attack by ground fire and rocket-propelled grenades when operating in war zones and usually travel with smaller, armed cousins along for protection.

The military didn't indicate whether the Griffons will be outfitted with missiles, or if they'll be limited to an escort role.

"[The helicopters] can be used for other purposes as well, but that's its primary purpose," MacKay said.

Some, however, have raised concerns the Griffons could be used to launch aerial attacks.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai has repeatedly decried NATO's use of aerial bombings because of the high risk of civilian casualties, saying as recently as yesterday that such attacks by international military forces must end.

Liberal MP Ujjal Dosanjh also expressed concern Wednesday, calling on the military to rule out any attack role for the new choppers.

"We need to put absolute restrictions on these escort helicopters…they cannot be used for attack purposes. They should be purely for defensive purposes, for escorting," he said.

As many as 250 more Canadian troops will be sent to Afghanistan to maintain and fly the Griffons.

Previously, the Defence Department was planning to ask other NATO forces to fill the protection role for the transport helicopters, which cost $282 million.

The previous chief of defence staff, Gen. Rick Hillier, had rejected a role for the Griffons in Afghanistan, saying they didn't perform well in the hot and high-altitude environment.

The air force has long wanted to send the Griffons into battle, however.

So far, they have been used for transport, reconnaissance and rescue during the Saguenay and Winnipeg floods, the Quebec ice storm and international relief operations in Honduras and Haiti.

Hillier retired from his post in July and was replaced by Gen. Walter Natynczyk.

Its a good day for tac hel.
 
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