• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Haitian leaders must all agree before Canada would lead a potential military intervention, Trudeau says

U.S. has suggested Canada could lead a multinational force in Haiti

Dylan Robertson · The Canadian Press · Posted: Nov 20, 2022 1:27 PM ET

A potential Canadian military intervention in Haiti can't happen unless all political parties in the troubled nation agree to it, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Sunday.

Speaking from Tunisia on the final day of the two-day Francophonie summit, Trudeau announced $16.5 million to help stabilize Haiti, where gangs are strangling access to fuel and critical supplies amid a worsening cholera outbreak.

About half the money is going toward humanitarian aid, and some of the rest is intended to help weed out corruption and prosecute gender-based violence.

But Haiti's government has asked for an international military intervention to combat gangs who have strangled access to fuel and critical supplies in the middle of the outbreak.

The United States wants Canada to lead any military intervention.

Trudeau said Sunday that Canada is working with CARICOM, the organization of Caribbean governments, along with "various actors in Haiti from all different political parties" to get a consensus on how the international community can help.

"It is not enough for Haiti's government to ask for it," he said. "There needs to be a consensus across political parties in Haiti before we can move forward on more significant steps."

He did not rule out eventually establishing a Canadian military mission on the ground in Haiti.

"Canada is very open to playing an important role, but we must have a Haitian consensus," Trudeau said in French.

New sanctions on prominent former officials
A Global Affairs Canada assessment team sent to Haiti to establish some understanding of what is happening and what could help has already returned and provided a report at meetings Trudeau said he attended.

He said the response is complicated because many "political elites" and "oligarchs" in Haiti have used the country's humanitarian crises "to enrich themselves on the backs of the Haitian people."

"So that is why our approach now is not about doing what one political party or the government wants," Trudeau said. "It's calling for a level of consensus and coherence from all actors in Haiti to call for solutions that we can actually get behind and lead on as an international community."

On Saturday Canada expanded its economic sanctions freezing the Canadian assets of Haitian political elites to now include former president Michel Martelly and former prime ministers Laurent Lamothe and Jean-Henry Ceant.

Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly accused the trio of helping gangs undermine Haiti's current government and called on international partners to follow Canada's lead.

"Our goal is to make sure that these people that are profiting from the violence, that are part of a corrupted system, are facing accountability," she said.

Haitian Foreign Affairs Minister Jean Victor Geneus said the new sanctions put real consequences on those causing a "nightmare" in his country.

"These sanctions will have a dissuasive impact," he said in French, while seated between Trudeau and Joly.

Geneus said gangs are raping women and girls, preventing children from attending school and not letting sick people through roadblocks when they seek medical treatment. That means refugees are leaving for neighbouring islands.

"If the necessary conditions for safety are not re-established in a fast and urgent manner, a humanitarian catastrophe is possible in Haiti," he said in French.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-haiti-intervention-sanctions-1.6658254
 
The WHAT is the easy part. If Haiti were a stable a prosperous nation, there would be no refugees.

HOW we do that is the hard part. 🤷‍♂️
Mind you, refugees from all over the world are appearing on Canada’s doorstep. We can’t police every country with political instability. Sending financial, food and other types of aid usually ends up in the hands of some gangs or warlords. Not sure what the answer is but what I do know is that what we have been doing isn’t doing much good.
 
LOL -

Canada sending two small, slow naval ships to Haiti: Here's what they might do there​


Naval defence experts said Friday the Glace Bay and Moncton — part of Canada’s Kingston class of coastal defence vessels — should be able to map “pattern of life” on the waters surrounding the country, watch out for illicit marine activity by gangs and monitor for unsafe boatloads of refugees.

1)
Map pattern of life: "The people that we can see onshore look to be very poor, infrastructure looks to be poorly maintained and lacking. We do not recommend any attempt at landing."

2) Watching out for illicit marine activity: "We observed many illicit marine activities but lack the legal mandatory or military capabilities to do anything but observe."

3) Monitor boatloads of refugees: "We observed many boatloads of refugees attempting to make their way towards the US. We did not allow them to tie up along side for fear of being overrun." "We attempted to throw as many water bottles at them as possible to ensure that they stay hydrated during their crossing to Florida." "Shouts of 'Bon Chance!' was heard from a large number of the crew."

Overall we achieved all that was asked of us and of what we were capable of achieving.

Canada sending two small, slow naval ships to Haiti: Here's what they might do there
 
The way I see it, it's a lose-lose-lose situation regardless of COAs:
  1. Send a force into Haiti, which would definitely not be spun into "invaders attacking poor black country" [insert eyeroll here] and make the 90s missions seem like a cakewalk. There are so many issues with this COA off the bat that I don't know where to start.
  2. Send a token contribution (the current option, it seems), where Canada will catch flak for not doing enough.
  3. Do nothing (overt, at least), which signals that not only Canada is unable (which is bad enough), but unwilling to help out poor countries effectively at our doorstep. I think that being unwilling is politically/diplomatically worse than being unable to do something.
To me, the current COA is the "least worst" of the options. COA 1 is really bad, obviously, and COA 3 is really bad but for different reasons.

Yes, COA 2 doesn't send anything of substance, but to me, it signals that Canada is at least willing to help.
 
The way I see it, it's a lose-lose-lose situation regardless of COAs:
  1. Send a force into Haiti, which would definitely not be spun into "invaders attacking poor black country" [insert eyeroll here] and make the 90s missions seem like a cakewalk. There are so many issues with this COA off the bat that I don't know where to start.
  2. Send a token contribution (the current option, it seems), where Canada will catch flak for not doing enough.
  3. Do nothing (overt, at least), which signals that not only Canada is unable (which is bad enough), but unwilling to help out poor countries effectively at our doorstep. I think that being unwilling is politically/diplomatically worse than being unable to do something.
To me, the current COA is the "least worst" of the options. COA 1 is really bad, obviously, and COA 3 is really bad but for different reasons.

Yes, COA 2 doesn't send anything of substance, but to me, it signals that Canada is at least willing to help.

Or we reinforce their police with training, weapons and equipment, kind of like we're doing with the Ukraine. Sounds like they could use it....


How do Haitian police deal with gangs while lacking body armor, weapons and ammunition​

When a bloody gang war erupted in a busy business district east of Haiti’s capital not far from the U.S. Embassy, Haitian police officers were forced to mount a military-style assault just to reclaim one intersection.

Armed with rifles and bulletproof vests, they marched in behind a bulldozer, clearing tires, wooden tables and even an overturned trailer used by the gangs to block the road.

But weeks later, holding the ground is a strenuous effort.

On a recent weekday, three officers in the specialized Motorized Intervention Brigade, or BIM, joined regular officers in checking passing cars at a checkpoint at the strategic traffic artery at Butte-Boyer 75 in Croix-des-Missions. The traffic-heavy intersection borders two gang strongholds on the eastern outskirts of metropolitan Port-au-Prince.

Dressed in camouflage, the rapid-reaction BIM officers were armed only with standard-issue 9mm pistols strapped around their legs. None wore bulletproof body armor, which like the ammunition for their guns is hard to come by.
Police fear it’s only a matter of time before members of the powerful 400 Mawozo gang, armed with U.S.-made assault-style rifles, retake this strategic intersection — or completely turn the vast Cul-de-Sac Plain of agricultural land, commercial businesses and private homes into a no-man’s-land of kidnappings, carnage and gang war like the southern entrance of the capital.

“We are not afraid,” a 20-year veteran of the force, Inspector Arne Vitto Georges, said about taking on the country’s powerful gangs. “But we are policing with our bare hands.”

As Haitian police struggle to reclaim this teeming capital’s streets amid rising gang violence and kidnappings, officers say they are badly outgunned and lack the basic equipment they need to keep order. Bulletproof vests, even work boots, are difficult to get. Ammunition? Nearly impossible. So are high-powered automatic rifles.


 
Or we reinforce their police with training, weapons and equipment, kind of like we're doing with the Ukraine. Sounds like they could use it....
That assumes that the HNP, judiciary, etc aren't corrupt as hell. Which I have no idea.

If it ends up being corrupt and we're aiding them, that's not exactly a good look either.
 
Send a force into Haiti, which would definitely not be spun into "invaders attacking poor black country" [insert eyeroll here] and make the 90s missions seem like a cakewalk. There are so many issues with this COA off the bat that I don't know where to start.

It's only an issue of "poor black country" to racists. If the country was white would our contribution change? I don't care what happens either way, Haiti needs to fix itself without foreign troops on the ground, but not doing something because Haitians are black, and western military forces are white, is racist in itself. I'm surprised the leftists haven't spun it around the other way by now - we aren't helping Haiti because they are black.
 
It's only an issue of "poor black country" to racists. If the country was white would our contribution change? I don't care what happens either way, Haiti needs to fix itself without foreign troops on the ground, but not doing something because Haitians are black, and western military forces are white, is racist in itself. I'm surprised the leftists haven't spun it around the other way by now - we aren't helping Haiti because they are black.
We’re fooked either way.
 
IMO, what is needed in Haiti atm is an Armed Intervention with a very clear and narrowly defined objective similar to Op SERVAL in Mali or Op SANGARIS in the CAR.

- Disrupt Gang Activity, Restore Law and Order and work in support of the HNP.

The force then needs to leave immediately and not stay any longer. A long term funding and support scheme needs to then be developed to build up the HNP just like what was done in Jamaica with the JDF & JCF.
 
The force then needs to leave immediately and not stay any longer. A long term funding and support scheme needs to then be developed to build up the HNP just like what was done in Jamaica with the JDF & JCF.
I know next to nothing about the Jamaican efforts, so are the two situations (except in scale) similar enough that the strategy used in Jamaica would work in Haiti?
 
Or we reinforce their police with training, weapons and equipment, kind of like we're doing with the Ukraine. Sounds like they could use it....


How do Haitian police deal with gangs while lacking body armor, weapons and ammunition​

When a bloody gang war erupted in a busy business district east of Haiti’s capital not far from the U.S. Embassy, Haitian police officers were forced to mount a military-style assault just to reclaim one intersection.

Armed with rifles and bulletproof vests, they marched in behind a bulldozer, clearing tires, wooden tables and even an overturned trailer used by the gangs to block the road.

But weeks later, holding the ground is a strenuous effort.

On a recent weekday, three officers in the specialized Motorized Intervention Brigade, or BIM, joined regular officers in checking passing cars at a checkpoint at the strategic traffic artery at Butte-Boyer 75 in Croix-des-Missions. The traffic-heavy intersection borders two gang strongholds on the eastern outskirts of metropolitan Port-au-Prince.

Dressed in camouflage, the rapid-reaction BIM officers were armed only with standard-issue 9mm pistols strapped around their legs. None wore bulletproof body armor, which like the ammunition for their guns is hard to come by.
Police fear it’s only a matter of time before members of the powerful 400 Mawozo gang, armed with U.S.-made assault-style rifles, retake this strategic intersection — or completely turn the vast Cul-de-Sac Plain of agricultural land, commercial businesses and private homes into a no-man’s-land of kidnappings, carnage and gang war like the southern entrance of the capital.

“We are not afraid,” a 20-year veteran of the force, Inspector Arne Vitto Georges, said about taking on the country’s powerful gangs. “But we are policing with our bare hands.”

As Haitian police struggle to reclaim this teeming capital’s streets amid rising gang violence and kidnappings, officers say they are badly outgunned and lack the basic equipment they need to keep order. Bulletproof vests, even work boots, are difficult to get. Ammunition? Nearly impossible. So are high-powered automatic rifles.


Sounds like they could use some TAPVs...
 
I know next to nothing about the Jamaican efforts, so are the two situations (except in scale) similar enough that the strategy used in Jamaica would work in Haiti?
Incredibly similar in some ways:


The JDF is the ace in the sleeve that keeps it under control though. The JDF was formed out of the remnants of the British Army's West Indies Regiment, is a strong National Institution that isn't considered corrupt.

Jamaicans generally hate the Jamaican Police (which was an oppressive colonial police force and has a bad reputation) but universally trust and admire the Jamaica Defence Force as a force of good.

We, along with the Americans and British, have been quietly cultivating the JDFs capabilities for 3 or 4 decades.


They are quite skilled at Urban Combat, and COIN Operations:




 
It's only an issue of "poor black country" to racists. If the country was white would our contribution change? I don't care what happens either way, Haiti needs to fix itself without foreign troops on the ground, but not doing something because Haitians are black, and western military forces are white, is racist in itself. I'm surprised the leftists haven't spun it around the other way by now - we aren't helping Haiti because they are black

The one main difference between Haiti and Jamaica is Jamaica has a government…
I will recommend you all listen to "Real Dictators" particularly the episodes about Papa Doc.

It is a good start to understanding WHY we as a nation need to keep this place at arm's length. Unless you want to be used as a pin cushion....
 
If Canada could come up with the resources. Raise and train a full regiment of light infantry but not in Canada. Go full Heinlein or Falkenberg Legion with the training. Train them in Jamaica one Battalion of Haitians one second battalion of other volunteers from the Caribbean, Canada etc. Also the RCMP could train up the police company.

Send them in with full kit. Get the US to supply the logistics. Disarm current Army and police and send back to barracks. They will need to be sorted. Maybe even shipped to the training center and retrained and watched.
 
Back
Top