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Hamas invaded Israel 2023

brihard said:
Well, last time about 80 years ago we had to defeat them militarily and occupy their country for a while. But part of that was also rebuilding said country (that we had done quite a number on- with good reason), prosecuting those guilty of war crimes, and reintegrating them into the developed world.

Not to say that Gaza is an analogous challenge to post-war Germany. Some aspects of it are much harder.

But when an entire population is essentially ghettoized and forgotten about at best or treated as totally worthless and disposable at worst, absolutely there is going to be an enduring challenge of angry young men growing up with little to live for. Then, they’re easily convinced they could have something to die for.

By invading and occupying, Israel has essentially taken on the responsibility to look after these couple million people, even as they weed out the evil and malevolent among them. I hope they have a plan. Gaza was already a hellhole, but now it’s so very much worse. And whether you like it or not, there absolutely are a lot of innocent civilians stuck in the middle of this. As you yourself point out, nobody will take them, so the few million can’t really help but be caught between the rock and hard place that is the IDF and some 30,000-odd Hamas fighters.
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Please don't forget that in order to achieve the above with Germany, we, the Allies, also ethnically cleansed Poland, (old and new territories), Russia (Konigsberg/Kaliningrad, Don Region, Volga Region), Rumania, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Bulgaria, of well over 97% of all Germans living in those territories. That cleansing, between 1945-1948 amounted to over 12 million people - the vast, vast, vast majority innocent civilians.

If the IDF kills off say 20,000 of the 30,000 odd Hama fighters, will the remaining 2 million Gazan's over throw the remaining 10,000 Hama fighters? Does the IDF have to kill off 25,000 Hama fighters for this to occur? What if the IDF kills off 28,000 of the 30,000 odd Hama fighters, will the 2million Gazan's chose a better form of government? Will they go back to Fatah?

Hat's off to the PLO/Fatah organization for keeping a pretty low profile during all of this current fight. Are they quietly biding their time to re-assert control over Gaza?
 
Czech_pivo said:
Please don't forget that in order to achieve the above with Germany, we, the Allies, also ethnically cleansed Poland, (old and new territories), Russia (Konigsberg/Kaliningrad, Don Region, Volga Region), Rumania, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Bulgaria, of well over 97% of all Germans living in those territories. That cleansing, between 1945-1948 amounted to over 12 million people - the vast, vast, vast majority innocent civilians.

If the IDF kills off say 20,000 of the 30,000 odd Hama fighters, will the remaining 2 million Gazan's over throw the remaining 10,000 Hama fighters? Does the IDF have to kill off 25,000 Hama fighters for this to occur? What if the IDF kills off 28,000 of the 30,000 odd Hama fighters, will the 2million Gazan's chose a better form of government? Will they go back to Fatah?

Hat's off to the PLO/Fatah organization for keeping a pretty low profile during all of this current fight. Are they quietly biding their time to re-assert control over Gaza?
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A broader population wide pacification program will likely be required to facilitate some kind of more comprehensive culture shift after they cull the herd, which should include dispersing the population in some way so the bad guys can't feed off, and hide amongst, the local population centres as easily. Separating the 'fish from the sea', as it were, along the lines of the Kampong strategy in the Malayan Emergency.

On a smaller scale, in Northern Ireland, this was done through demolishing the 'terrorist generating' big housing projects built after WW2, like the Divis Flats, and relocating social housing recipients into more community friendly housing estates that were easier to police effectively. This took billions of dollars and decades to do though.

Regardless, it sounds like the US has come out against that option.
 
Czech_pivo said:
Please don't forget that in order to achieve the above with Germany, we, the Allies, also ethnically cleansed Poland, (old and new territories), Russia (Konigsberg/Kaliningrad, Don Region, Volga Region), Rumania, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Bulgaria, of well over 97% of all Germans living in those territories. That cleansing, between 1945-1948 amounted to over 12 million people - the vast, vast, vast majority innocent civilians.

If the IDF kills off say 20,000 of the 30,000 odd Hama fighters, will the remaining 2 million Gazan's over throw the remaining 10,000 Hama fighters? Does the IDF have to kill off 25,000 Hama fighters for this to occur? What if the IDF kills off 28,000 of the 30,000 odd Hama fighters, will the 2million Gazan's chose a better form of government? Will they go back to Fatah?

Hat's off to the PLO/Fatah organization for keeping a pretty low profile during all of this current fight. Are they quietly biding their time to re-assert control over Gaza?
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Noticed that did ya?
 
Furniture said:
Likely with tacit support from the UN staff...

The UN is an institution that is in serious need of reform or dissolution.
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Your assuming anything that came out of reform would side with your view points.

Over half the world doesn’t agree with the West. That half is slowly growing in strength.

The only reason the UN doesn’t get to against the West’s viewpoint is the veto powers. Any meaningful reform would get rid of said powers (which is also why it will likely never happen).

Democracy means the viewpoints of all get represented, which means most our current western values would likely be rejected.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Your assuming anything that came out of reform would side with your view points.

Over half the world doesn’t agree with the West. That half is slowly growing in strength.

The only reason the UN doesn’t get to against the West’s viewpoint is the veto powers. Any meaningful reform would get rid of said powers (which is also why it will likely never happen).

Democracy means the viewpoints of all get represented, which means most our current western values would likely be rejected.
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Who said I wanted it to be a free democracy? It exists because the West made it, so the West should control it. If not, abolish it all together and let the poor countries get by without it...
 
Quirky said:
www.reuters.com

Australia, Canada, New Zealand back efforts towards Gaza ceasefire -statement

Canada, Australia and New Zealand support urgent international efforts towards a sustainable ceasefire in Gaza, the prime ministers of the three countries said in a joint statement on Tuesday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

I’m glad Canada finally made this statement, fighting should stop shortly.


View attachment 81760
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word from the Globe is that Canada will vote with all the rest calling for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire
 
Furniture said:
Who said I wanted it to be a free democracy? It exists because the West made it, so the West should control it. If not, abolish it all together and let the poor countries get by without it...
Click to expand...

The UN was a Western construct. It invited the rest of the world in the hope that it could be westernized. The 1947 resolution on Israel pretty much scotched that hope.

The next step is to accept the divided opinion and stand by to defend our "safe spaces".
 
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