Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[daftandbarmy]

Having been in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is easy to find people who want to fight for their freedom. The issue is that we can go home at anytime, and they get left holding the bag.

As @brihard has pointed out, it is entirely one thing to risk one’s own skin, but when you risk those you love, it becomes a different equation, and our history of support is not exactly stellar.

Hopefully one of our lessons learned is that 'War Tourism', as a strategy, hasn't proven to be a great way to do COIN or defeat terrorism, and the systemic intimidation that is a key feature of well organized and motivated terrorist movements...

About acts of terrorism​

While declarations, resolutions and universal “sectoral” treaties have articulated some distinct conditions and core elements, no standardized definition of terrorism exists. In the absence of an internationally agreed definition of acts of terrorism, the High Commissioner for Human Rights calls upon States to be guided by the key elements of acts of terrorism provided in Security Council resolution 1566 (2004) and the model definition developed by the Special Rapporteur. As a minimum, Terrorism involves the intimidation or coercion of populations or governments through the threat or perpetration of violence, causing death, serious injury or the taking of hostages.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/terrorism#:~:text=As%20a%20minimum%2CTerrorism%20involves,or%20the%20taking%20of%20hostages.

 

[Brad Sallows]

But the question remains. It's very hard to resist your oppressor, but do you draw the line at killing, or supporting the killing of, foreigners as an outlet for your problems?

 

[brihard]

But the question remains. It's very hard to resist your oppressor, but do you draw the line at killing, or supporting the killing of, foreigners as an outlet for your problems?

Does that question in fact remain? Is there a single person here on this site who is supportive or forgiving of that, in the context of Israel/Gaza? Sorta seems like a straw man.

 

[KevinB]

But the question remains. It's very hard to resist your oppressor, but do you draw the line at killing, or supporting the killing of, foreigners as an outlet for your problems?

I suspect for many it’s the mob mentality that takes over. Some cheer for the actual action, more cheer so they don’t draw attention, and the cycle progresses to a point where everyone is cheering, and it gets easier and easier to accept.

Not saying that it is right, but…

 

[Brad Sallows]

Does that question in fact remain? Is there a single person here on this site who is supportive or forgiving of that, in the context of Israel/Gaza? Sorta seems like a straw man.

I posed the question rhetorically with respect to people living under Hamas's government. How many of them really aren't effectively going along (ranging from grudging silent tolerance to open enthusiasm) with killing Israelis as part of the price for their own security?

 

[brihard]

(ranging from grudging silent tolerance to open enthusiasm) with killing Israelis as part of the price for their own security?

Huge difference between these two when you and/or your family’s lives are at stake.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Huge difference between these two when you and/or your family’s lives are at stake.

Yes. But you can shift context to the US or Canada. Have we tolerated killing foreigners for the sake of our own security? Were our reasons good enough? How many objected, considering the low risk of retaliation from governments? How did people in general react to the principled anti-war activists, never mind the governments?

 

[brihard]

Yes. But you can shift context to the US or Canada. Have we tolerated killing foreigners for the sake of our own security? Were our reasons good enough? How many objected, considering the low risk of retaliation from governments? How did people in general react to the principled anti-war activists, never mind the governments?

This is the Israel/Hamas thread, so no, I’m not shifting contexts away from where political dissent is life-endangering. That pulls the discussion out of relevance for me.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Not sure how they managed to get pagers to do this, but if true it is epic!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1836061232433930309

 

[brihard]

Not sure how they managed to get pagers to do this, but if true it is epic!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1836061232433930309

What an op.

It’s not yet clear how many are injured, but I’ve seen reports of hundreds. I can’t see Hezbollah taking this lying down. I mean, those now in need of a hip replacement might- but there’s gonna be major reprisal.

God damn though. That’s a hell of a hit to command and communications.

BBC’s take: Hezbollah says exploding pagers kills three in Lebanon

 

[dapaterson]

I seem to recall cell phones with high explosives in the past as well.

"Hello, is this Terrorist Leader?"

"Yes, who is calling?"

"Goodbye."

 

[Cloud Cover]

Been around for a very long time. It’s one of the reasons that waaayy back BlackBerry had to invent the crypto battery (besides acting as an anti eavesdropping measure).

 

[OldSolduer]

I seem to recall cell phones with high explosives in the past as well.

"Hello, is this Terrorist Leader?"

"Yes, who is calling?"

"Goodbye."

I recall that too.

IF this pager thing is true.....its spectacular.

 

[QV]

A modern day version of the tampered munitions caches left for the Viet Cong to find.

The implications are quite scary.

 

[captloadie]

I wonder what Israel's end game is with actions like this and some of the recent strikes on "safe havens"?

From an outside perspective, it seems like the intent is to incite the other side to take greater action, to see how far they can get the other side (and here I mean nation states, not the puppet regimes running Gaza and Lebanon) to change where that line is. What happens when they eventually push to far and, say Iran for instance, decides to respond in kind?

I ask this because I'm not sure how many of Israel's traditional allies are going to step up and rush to defend it. The US is in an election cycle and likely not going to commit, and I don't see other Western nations stepping in if the US doesn't take the lead.

I guess if Israel thinks they can win another war against its neighbours, there is no down side for them.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Such an incredibly effective weapon of opportunity.

• Perhaps someone at Hez had discovered it just immediately prior and so Israel just initiated the kill chain command onto the network; or
• Hez was on the cusp of initiating an op and Israel decided to pre-empt it;
• it was ND by command line;
• 3rd party hackers
• Iran did it

So many possibilities!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

This would be the perfect op, hours before your troops cross the border. So I think it was either to disrupt a major Hezz attack or a use before you lose it thing.

 

[Good2Golf]

Icing on the cake would be using Huawei pagers….

 

[armyvern]

Begin Operation Circumcision in 3, 2, ...

 

[armyvern]

I recall that too.

IF this pager thing is true.....its spectacular.

It's certainly going to go down in the pagers of history.