Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[daftandbarmy]

Having been in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is easy to find people who want to fight for their freedom. The issue is that we can go home at anytime, and they get left holding the bag.

As @brihard has pointed out, it is entirely one thing to risk one’s own skin, but when you risk those you love, it becomes a different equation, and our history of support is not exactly stellar.

Hopefully one of our lessons learned is that 'War Tourism', as a strategy, hasn't proven to be a great way to do COIN or defeat terrorism, and the systemic intimidation that is a key feature of well organized and motivated terrorist movements...

About acts of terrorism​

While declarations, resolutions and universal “sectoral” treaties have articulated some distinct conditions and core elements, no standardized definition of terrorism exists. In the absence of an internationally agreed definition of acts of terrorism, the High Commissioner for Human Rights calls upon States to be guided by the key elements of acts of terrorism provided in Security Council resolution 1566 (2004) and the model definition developed by the Special Rapporteur. As a minimum, Terrorism involves the intimidation or coercion of populations or governments through the threat or perpetration of violence, causing death, serious injury or the taking of hostages.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/terrorism#:~:text=As%20a%20minimum%2CTerrorism%20involves,or%20the%20taking%20of%20hostages.

 

[Brad Sallows]

But the question remains. It's very hard to resist your oppressor, but do you draw the line at killing, or supporting the killing of, foreigners as an outlet for your problems?

 

[brihard]

But the question remains. It's very hard to resist your oppressor, but do you draw the line at killing, or supporting the killing of, foreigners as an outlet for your problems?

Does that question in fact remain? Is there a single person here on this site who is supportive or forgiving of that, in the context of Israel/Gaza? Sorta seems like a straw man.

 

[KevinB]

But the question remains. It's very hard to resist your oppressor, but do you draw the line at killing, or supporting the killing of, foreigners as an outlet for your problems?

I suspect for many it’s the mob mentality that takes over. Some cheer for the actual action, more cheer so they don’t draw attention, and the cycle progresses to a point where everyone is cheering, and it gets easier and easier to accept.

Not saying that it is right, but…

 

[Brad Sallows]

Does that question in fact remain? Is there a single person here on this site who is supportive or forgiving of that, in the context of Israel/Gaza? Sorta seems like a straw man.

I posed the question rhetorically with respect to people living under Hamas's government. How many of them really aren't effectively going along (ranging from grudging silent tolerance to open enthusiasm) with killing Israelis as part of the price for their own security?

 

[brihard]

(ranging from grudging silent tolerance to open enthusiasm) with killing Israelis as part of the price for their own security?

Huge difference between these two when you and/or your family’s lives are at stake.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Huge difference between these two when you and/or your family’s lives are at stake.

Yes. But you can shift context to the US or Canada. Have we tolerated killing foreigners for the sake of our own security? Were our reasons good enough? How many objected, considering the low risk of retaliation from governments? How did people in general react to the principled anti-war activists, never mind the governments?

 

[brihard]

Yes. But you can shift context to the US or Canada. Have we tolerated killing foreigners for the sake of our own security? Were our reasons good enough? How many objected, considering the low risk of retaliation from governments? How did people in general react to the principled anti-war activists, never mind the governments?

This is the Israel/Hamas thread, so no, I’m not shifting contexts away from where political dissent is life-endangering. That pulls the discussion out of relevance for me.