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Harper in Afghanistan on unannounced visit

Hunteroffortune said:
So, do the troops really get forced to eat greasy bacon and greasy eggs and stale bread?   :eek:

I hope the chefs serve those greasy reporters that greasy food, and let the troops eat the healthy food I'm sure they usually eat. Well, I hate to admit it, but I like bacon and eggs.  ;D

- Bin Reg'lar Army thirty years now, and I believe our Army to be the best fed Army in the world.  Maybe not the best equiped/trained/led/paid, but certainly the best fed.

- Perhaps said reporter should be thankfull that we don't put naptha in our coffee anymore.
 
I'd hold on the pay part....the CF has always been the envy of other forces, especially in combat zones. Check out the bonus you receive and compare it to the US combat pay...you would be amazed.
 
When you look at a pay and benefits passage, you have to consider the whole picture: GI Bill.  GI college fund.  Subsisdized food and housing.  Prefered hiring.  Re-up bonuses, etc.
 
TCBF said:
- Bin Reg'lar Army thirty years now, and I believe our Army to be the best fed Army in the world.  Maybe not the best equiped/trained/led/paid, but certainly the best fed.

+1

Gawd, I miss army grub sometimes! (Mess hall, field kitchen, hay boxes, sometimes even some IMPs)

Damn, now I'm hungry!

End of hijack!  Good on the PM!  :salute:
 
TCBF said:
- Bin Reg'lar Army thirty years now, and I believe our Army to be the best fed Army in the world.  Maybe not the best equiped/trained/led/paid, but certainly the best fed.

- Perhaps said reporter should be thankfull that we don't put naptha in our coffee anymore.

Okay, being a non-army person, what's naptha? If it's like a truth serum, maybe we should put it in reporters coffee, would be interesting to actually get the real news for once!
 
Naptha is a product of crude oil, much like gasoline only a lot finer and lighter. Sometimes called white gas, it is highly flamable and used in camping stoves and lanterns, which is how we employ it. There was an incident in Bosnia in the 1990's when a senior NCO who was disliked by his troops had Naptha slipped into his coffee, he eventually went blind from it. Although it is not truth serum, I still wouldn't mind it being slipped into a few journalists Tim Hortons cups!
TCBF, I could not agree with you more, having had the oppurtunity to eat at a few different nations dining facilities, i can say without a doubt that when Canadian Military cooks are in the kitchen weather it is in the feild or not, we are very well off. KBR, not so much.
For those not familar with KBR, here is a little history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kellogg,_Brown_and_Root
 
I'd make a joke about Naptha being exacly what those reporters need. Well, I guess I just did.

Anyways, Naptha, or white fuel, is a petroleum product that we typically use to fuel coleman stoves and lanterns. It evaporates relatively quickly.
 
The Librarian said:
If the media thought the soldiers comment was anything more than an aside...they'd have been all over him looking for details to add to his soundbite. Who's to say his comment wasn't  followed by a "when I have real work that needs to happen," after all the only context the CBC has choosen to give us here is their very own "the troops left early spin" which obviously did not occur. No, the troops began to leave when the PMs speach was over. They contradict even themselves. Once again, it's the media spin...and based upon their own contradictory "setting" and "context" of troops leaving early/after the speach... I'm willing to give the soldier the benefit of the doubt...because I am one and understand where he's coming from.

By the way, leaving the PMs speach after it's over, in no way insinuates that one doesn't support him. I think your last sentence reflects the fact you bought the media spin the CBC has thrown into the mix on this one.

Sorry have to completely agree with the good Cpl. Knowing there was press present the comment should not have been said, even if it was followed with a plausible explanation. Especially since it was the CBC with their "agenda" of portraying the PM in the worst possible light.

Of course all have felt this way about most of the parades we attend. :eek: Just be careful about what you say, when you say it, where you are and who might be listening.
 
2 Cdo said:
Of course all have felt this way about most of the parades we attend. :eek: Just be careful about what you say, when you say it, where you are and who might be listening.

Now there is probably some of the best advice one can learn...........you never have to explain, and no one can turn them around, as long as they only stay thoughts.
Once they exit the trap,.........
 
This appears to be the right thread to add this from Mr.Travers:

http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/217066

PM trying to rewrite the Afghan narrative
TheStar.com - opinion - PM trying to rewrite the Afghan narrative

May 24, 2007
James Travers

Who can argue when Stephen Harper says Canada is doing a lot for Afghanistan? A mission now costing a fortune in blood and money is making that country marginally safer, more stable and modern.

That's not only as it should be, it's the least to expect. When foreigners topple a local government they assume the burden of cleaning up the mess.

Measured today, the price of that effort is 55 Canadian lives and more than $6 billion. So the Prime Minister has a sizable stake in the progress telegraphed home this week.

Those messages are important to Harper.

Afghanistan hasn't been good to Conservatives lately and the Prime Minister needs the sweet smell of a success to wash away the bad taste left by careless controls over the treatment of prisoners.

To that end, history will footnote Harper's second Afghanistan trip as markedly different from the first.

Gone is jarring U.S. jingoism, replaced by a typically more modest and soothing Ottawa narrative about "helping the country to build a democratic, economically viable future of lasting peace and prosperity."

Up to a point, the Prime Minister has a point.

Given the inherent advantages enjoyed by insurgents everywhere, the military is doing well in countering the Taliban while even the much-maligned Canadian International Development Agency is playing a useful role in, among other things, providing the micro-financing that makes poverty a little less grinding.

But the overarching question for this government, and ultimately this country, is where do these bits and pieces fit in the complex puzzle of a fissured and, in many ways, still feudal state? As clearly as it is in Harper's political interest to boast that the export of Canadian values is booming, Afghanistan remains trapped by opium economics, regional politics and a culture steeped in violence.

The distance between our values and their reality is enormous. To bridge it will require resources and compromises that will test Canadian patience as well as generosity.

It's those demands – along with the pressing need to re-energize a flagging party – that took Harper to Afghanistan this week. Wisely or not, this Prime Minister chose to make a Liberal mission his own and now is stuck with convincing an ambivalent nation to stay what promises to be a long and torturous course.

What makes that so difficult is what made it so easy to "sell" the first operation to a country reeling from 9/11. Bringing down the Taliban made obvious sense to Canadians who then knew even less about Afghanistan than they do today.

True, a minority still cling to the lingering war-to-end-all-wars fantasy of a clear-cut military victory. But many more now grasp that factors beyond Canadian, NATO and even U.S. control will decide Afghanistan's future.

Two stand in particular relief. One is Pakistan, the other, poppies.

There can be no lasting or even temporary peace without the blessing of Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf or his successors. And there will be no meaningful development as long as warlords, a corrupt central government and peasant farmers profit most from an economy high on narcotics.

Demonizing the Taliban and torching cash crops are feel-good Western reflexes that only exacerbate the problem.

So, too, are opposition proposals to fix a withdrawal date and to skew the three Ds of defence, diplomacy and development to the latter rather than the former.

Much more innovative political and economic remedies are needed if Afghanistan is to accelerate away from its dark past. Canada's part in that process is to improve the security that is both a chip in the inevitable power-sharing negotiations and a precursor to the long-term development that civilian agencies deliver so much more capably than armies.

Politicians dislike plunging voters into those layers of perplexing nuance as much as admitting that some events are beyond their influence. They prefer, instead, to speak in bromides while advancing anecdotal shards in the hope they will be mistaken for the whole story.

In reinforcing that pattern this week, Harper skimmed lightly over the hardest truths for his government and for Afghanistan. A ruling party that now "owns" the mission has no alternative than to point to modest successes and shout loudly about creating a model state from chaos.

Canadians have done a lot for Afghanistan and the Prime Minister is right to recognize the human sacrifice and good works.

But that's a far cry from having the political permission to stay as long as necessary to do what may not be possible.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Travers's national affairs column appears Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. jtraver@thestar.ca.




 
I agree, broadly, with the thrust of Travers’ story – not the spin.

First, he’s right that Harper is trying to create a new narrative.  He needs one because the media has its own – see Ruxted’s ”A new political narrative” published about two months ago.

I think it’s important to understand why the media created their new narrative: the old one was boring.

The media needs controversy to sell advertising – which is why the media and journalists exist … period, full stop.  When the news is dull the viewers switch over to American Idol or some other such mindless pabulum – the advertisers measure, carefully measure, viewers and readers, when the viewers switch the advertising revenue for e.g. The National goes down, along with Peter Mansbridge’s pay packet, one suspects.  That’s what matters – advertising revenue.  Journalists are slaves to it – earning it is how they feed their families; it is their only productive function.  The old narrative – ‘agreed,’ more or less, by interim Liberal Leader Bill Graham and Prime Minister Harper was free from interesting controversy; it was boring; it wasn’t selling soap.  The media made up a new story.  That it was founded on  a tissue of lies and rubbish made no never mind – it created some controversy.  When that didn’t create enough controversy the media concocted the detainee story –which worked for a while.

Now the PMO is striking back – it is creating it’s own new narrative: combat operations worked; we are doing real, visible, measurable development work (which Canadians want) because we fought, killed and died, and drove the Taliban out of our area.

The journalists, who, by and large, heartily detest Harper and hate his press agent Sandra Buckler, need to strike back – quickly and hard - because Harper’s new narrative has one huge advantage: it’s believable.

Consider the current message, it is clear but has subtle bits, too: See, it says, that’s the PM, ‘outside the wire,’ where Canadians died just months ago – now it’s safe enough that we can bring the PM there.  It’s still a combat zone (he’s brave, too, isn’t he?  you’ll remember that, too, voters, won’t you? ) but we ‘won’ – now we're are securing the area and doing development.  The media cannot deny what Canadians can see with their own eyes; but they can try, they will try and, as Travers demonstrates, they are trying.

So, Travers and the rest of the anti-war media faction will now try to shift the focus away from Canadian success and towards new, more difficult problems.  He’s right: Pakistan and poppies are problems.  One, poppies, is relatively easy to solve - replace the stupid people doing poppy eradication with smart people doing what Ruxted suggests in the last paragraph of ”Ruxted’s Response to the Senate Committee’s Report”.  The other, Pakistan, is hideously difficult and no one in their right mind suggests that Canada can solve it – but that will not stop the media from blaming it on Prime Minister Harper and advancing Taliban Jack Layton’s agenda.
 
And, as if by magic, here(reproduced from today’s Globe and Mail under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act) is part of the counter-attack – predictably from Harper hater Lawrence Martin:

(My emphasis added)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070524.COMARTIN24/TPStory/specialComment/columnists
This little war of mine, I'm gonna let it shine

May 24, 2007
It's a hard sell, this terrorism stuff. When more people are dying on our side of the world from bathtub mishaps than terror outbreaks, you wonder how long the paranoia can linger.

To his credit, Prime Minister Stephen Harper hasn't tried to benefit by creating a culture of fear here like the Bush/Cheney crowd. In Washington, the effect is to send out a cowering message to the terror cells.

"We, with our $500-billion superiority in military spending, walk in angst."

Mr. Harper has been more sensible. Nonetheless, on the whole question of war and terrorism, he is caught up in dilemma; he is torn between allegiance to his conservative instincts and the past half-century of moderate Canadian tradition.

Where he will come down on this question may well determine his place in the next election and the history books. At the moment, indications are that his harder-line instincts are prevailing. In Afghanistan this week, the Prime Minister, who will not say a word in opposition to the calamity in Iraq, was full of jingoistic clichés very much in sync with Bush/Blair speak. He left the impression the Afghan mission was a long-term commitment, not a temporary departure - as was the Liberal plan - from our traditional peace-broker role. Though public opinion shows little appetite for it, the whole business of Canada as a permanent warrior nation seems to appeal to him.

Next month, he goes to the G8 in Germany, where global warming will be on the table as well as war. Indications are he will break with the majority of countries who want a Kyoto-oriented solution and side with America and Australia on a watered-down approach.

David McGuinty, the Liberal MP, recently summed up the situation rather bluntly: "It's the death of multilateralism and the beginning of an isolationist approach by Canada."

While that rhetoric is excessive, the sight of Mr. Harper cozying up to the coalition of the willing, when it is so discredited, might strike some as running rather counter to the Canadian essence.

On Afghanistan, for example, Mr. Harper seems hardly inclined toward diplomacy. Many in the government in Kabul say the route of negotiations is the way to go. Pakistan's President, Pervez Musharraf, this week told this newspaper the same thing. One would think our PM might be more interested.

In the spring of 2009, Canada will have fulfilled its commitment in Kandahar and it will be the turn of other NATO countries to pick up the slack. Instead of adhering to the deadline, as most Canadians want him to do, he hesitates. He's seemingly bent on a macho, no-compromise approach to show how tough he is.

Mr. Harper's patriot hyperbole knew no bounds this week. Our troops are "the finest men and women in uniform in the world," he said. He had the ever-pliant President Hamid Karzai at his side. The Afghan President is dependent on the NATO forces for his survival. He will say anything they want him to say, and so, on the question of torture of detainees in his country, he was denying any such thing.

The NDP's Dawn Black counted up the Afghan numbers this week and they showed that Canada is spending only a tiny fraction on aid, compared to combat expenditures - one dollar to every 10. One wiseacre columnist pointed out that Ottawa is spending more in sending over a stream of ministers for media-flattering photo ops than on aid to the chosen Kabul school where they stand for those ops.

It's not that the mission isn't valid. In many respects, it is. It isn't that the troops aren't doing good work. They are. But it may be that Mr. Harper is becoming too enamoured of this little war for his own good.

"He is tying his fortunes to the military and to law and order," said historian Michael Behiels. "There's no way he's going to identify himself with the tradition of Pearsonian diplomacy."

But if he presses the hard line, it's a huge political risk. The neo-con experiment, as undertaken by his ideological soulmates, has proved a failure. The world, whether our PM likes it or not, is tilting not in their direction but, on the issues of warming and war, in the direction of Al Gore.

lmartin@globeandmail.com

Of course the phrase “the Afghan mission was a long-term commitment, not a temporary departure - as was the Liberal plan - from our traditional peace-broker role” is rubbish – unadulterated BS, the creation of Eugene Lang – a former political aid to former Liberal cabinet ministers – which has been uncritically accepted, hook, line and sinker, by the lazy stenographers, like Martin who repeat the musing of Liberal press agents as though they had some basis in fact.

Martin tells us that Liberal MP David McGuinty’s rhetoric is ‘excessive’ but he repeats it, for effect, because it might do some damage to Prime Minister Harper.

Then he goes on to repeat Dawn Black’s illogical nonsense.

It’s all part the media’s response to Harper’s new narrative.

Lawrence Martin’s rhetoric is not just excessive – it is partisan political propaganda which, if the Chief Electoral Officer does his duty, will be billed to the Liberal Party of Canada.


 
What amazes me is how blatant the MSM has become, and nobody, but NOBODY is taking them to task....
 
I don't have a beef with TV or radio media on this,
but I'm going to have to go back on what I said
in terms of the PRINT media today.

They've been real knobs.

Harper can't say much without alienating them more.

The columnists are THEE ones in particular.
They can print whatever they want.
 
"The journalists, who, by and large, heartily detest Harper and hate his press agent Sandra Buckler,"

Well Harper appears to dislike the Capital Hill media and takes measures to go around them, and Buckler is just plain mean.
 
Baden  Guy said:
"The journalists, who, by and large, heartily detest Harper and hate his press agent Sandra Buckler,"

Well Harper appears to dislike the Capital Hill media and takes measures to go around them, and Buckler is just plain mean.

OK, but journalists tell us (although I don't believe them) that they want to present the news in a fair, balanced and unbiased manner.  If that's the case then it shouldn't matter if they like or hate the newsmaker, especially it shouldn't be obvious.

Canadian political journalists - the Parliamentary Press Gallery plus a few, by and large, in my opinion, fail the fairness test; they fail the balance test; they fail the unbiased test.  They fail to met the low standards they set for themselves.  Most are a waste of oxygen.
 
If many, if not most, members of the PPG were not so blatantly biased and partisan, then maybe the PMO would not have to get in a p!$$ing match with them.

Unfortunately, despite the growth in blogs, the mainstream media remains most peoples' source of news.  As such, the PM's message remains filtered by that biased source.
 
Perhaps there really was a security issue at hand. If the unit that the PM visited was preparing for Operation Hoover, the last thing that would be wanted would be media presence...
 
Emenince Grise said:
Perhaps there really was a security issue at hand. If the unit that the PM visited was preparing for Operation Hoover, the last thing that would be wanted would be media presence...

I agree, but the media are whining that they couldn't go along. Poor babies, if they didn't make up the news, maybe PM Harper would like them better.

The absolute worse case of bad/biased reporting was by Grahame from the Globe and Mail, when he interviewed, 30 out of less than 40 Canadian detainees, and they had all been tortured. Statistically it is close to impossible that he could even find 30 Canadian detainees (given that he can not roam the country freely), aren't they still looking for 3 of them with no luck, so, how did this reporter, just happen to interview 75% of Canadian detainees, who by the way were not in jail, and not one of them was one of the 3, the lawyers say were supposedly tortured and maybe disappeared, or were they?

Yet no one has held the Globe reporter to account, and he is still out in Afghanistan with our troops, I say boot the guy back home, he is doing more to hurt the cause then help it. His bias is hurting our troops, our government and our country. Freedom of speech is important, but lying to boost ratings should never be allowed. Interfering with our troops because of bad information and sleazy reporting is not freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech is what I have just exercised, I just gave my opinion on one reporter's  lack of integrity. Thanks to all the military people, past and present, who have made it possible for me to never fear for my life, because I have expressed an opinion.
 
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