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Harper willing to debate Ignatieff one-on-one

ModlrMike said:
It's convenient that you neglect to mention that it was the Liberals who opened that particular Pandora's box. "Guns in our streets" ring a bell?

The box was opened much longer than that, and never did I claim any one party didn't do it.  But hey, let's turn a statement about a particular thing into something bigger, why not?

Say, who was it that made the ads about Chretien's Bell's Palsy...? etc etc etc.

Or we could try to stick to more reasoned discussion.
 
I am a blue blooded, through, and true Conservative; but Harper IMHO will get stomped if he steps toe to toe with Ignatieff. His pedigree, eduction, and experiences (besides actually being PM) far out way Harper. Know your enemy, I have read pages and pages of his works. He is no dummy and won't come out swing wildly, they will deceive blows.

I saw picture of a CF member and Harper in Afghanistan and they were shaking hands. I asked that member "Weak hand shake?" and he replied "How did you know? Have you met him?" "Nope, it doesn't take a great judge of character to figure that one out."
 
dangles said:
Really? I'd love to know the context of that quote...very bizzare.
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SpecialEvent7/20051213/elxn_harper_speech_text_051214/

Redeye said:
--- Quote from: ModlrMike on Today at 13:22:43 ---It's convenient that you neglect to mention that it was the Liberals who opened that particular Pandora's box. "Guns in our streets" ring a bell?
--- End quote ---
The box was opened much longer than that, and never did I claim any one party didn't do it.  But hey, let's turn a statement about a particular thing into something bigger, why not?

Say, who was it that made the ads about Chretien's Bell's Palsy...? etc etc etc.

Or we could try to stick to more reasoned discussion.
Regardless of who started it, it's safe to say both parties have wandered down that road, to their discredit.
 
Rheostatic said:
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SpecialEvent7/20051213/elxn_harper_speech_text_051214/
Regardless of who started it, it's safe to say both parties have wandered down that road, to their discredit.

Exactly!
 
Redeye said:
It's a commercial - an attack ad - by a party that wants to go after him personally rather than issues, that's the simple answer.
Why's he leader?  Because the Liberal Party of Canada, through their process, chose him to be.

Ignatieff spent a long time out of Canada both in the United Kingdom and in the United States before returning to Canada and getting involved in politics.  Why this is spun as a negative is beyond me.  He's spent time in other countries, been exposed to other ideas and political systems, great.  It really makes no difference.

As for the "my America" quote -  that's a commonly used tactic called "quote mining" - extract a quote or soundbite from its context and use it to suggest something about the speaker that is not in fact true.  It's widely used and it's why you have to research such things.  I've not been able to find a complete transcript of the speech/source, but obviously it was directed at an American audience, and as a rhetorical device it's reasonable to assume that in the context the statement was made it made sense - if he's addressing, say, students at Harvard about something like political engagement - or really anyone in general, the statement's not an unreasonable one to work with.

The fact is petty attacks are the last resort of scoundrels, in general.   But they work on a lot of voters, which is why it's done.

The liebrals aren't lily white in this. Let's 'call a spade a spade'. Turning bull shyte spin and conjecture from the liebral press, but I suppose their supporters have some sort of excuse for saying it's OK for the liebrals because, it's not really the same, yada yada yada. ::) It's only a low life attack ad if it comes from the CPC right? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzoLVNs1eGI&feature=player_embedded
 
ballz said:
They should have the PM and the leader of the Opposition have a one-on-one debate every year, and then have a seperate debate with the major party leaders afterwards (and no, that does not include YOU Elizabeth you baby). The debate right now is just a bunch of ganging up on one person (usually the PM for most issues), people trying to get quotable sound clips that are always clearly pre-planned and scripted, and a bunch of noise.
I like this idea. There's no reason why we can't do both. Call the second debate a "rematch" if you need to jazz it up.

And I don't want to derail, but I hope they would include May (I think it was announced this morning that she was not invited). The Greens don't have a seat but they did earn a significant portion of the popular vote last time, and are the best argument for some kind of proportional representation.
 
http://thestar.blogs.com/davidolive/2011/03/a-chicken-and-a-liar.html

David Olive's Everybody's Business 03/31/2011

A chicken and a liar.

What on Earth possessed Harper yesterday to challenge Iggy to a duel? And less than 24 hours later refuse to show up? And then lie about the incident?

Here's Harper's "explanation" in Halifax today for why he's turning chicken in revoking his own challenge yesterday to Ignatieff for a one-on-one debate:

    We were open to all kinds of options. Our first preference was a direct debate with the leader of the coalition. Mr. Ignatieff insisted that his first preference was to have his coalition partners with him at the debate. That’s the format that was proposed. We’ve accepted it.

We've learned - or re-learned - these past few days how hard Harper has worked to rewrite the history of his many flirtations with a coalition of opposition parties including his own to deny power to the party winning the most seats. We've heard less about his climbdowns on writing to Ralph Klein with a brainwave on Alberta separatism (the scurrilous "firewall" letter of which Mr. H no longer speaks), and that Belgium, sight unseen by Harper, has a better form of government than Canada (still without a government a year after its most recent election, there's talk in Brussels of the country splitting up on ethnic lines as the former Czechoslovakia did); and JIm Flaherty's transports of admiration for a now-insolvent Ireland's ultra-low corporate-tax regime, which should be applied post haste to to Canada. The Tories forget all these things, and the MSM, appreciating that people change and ideas are in flux, hasn't dwelt on them.

And that, as an incident like this shows, was wrong. Since we've not challenged Harper on his past, we're all condemned to relive it. In the fake costing of 65 jet-fighter planes (Harper cost, $17 billion; real cost, $29 billion) to the non-costing of new and expanded prisons that would be required by Harper's proposed tougher sentencing guidelines. (The outside estimates are roughly $9 billion.) It was a vote on that contempt of the people's house, and not the budget, that brought this government down last Friday.

But this episode is astonishing, a Harper rewrite of events that unfolded just yesterday. To the question of how far Harper will go in insulting the voters, there is no apparent answer.

Soon after Harper suggested the notion yesterday of squaring off with Iggy alone in a televised debate, Iggy's immediate response in fact was:

    A one-on-one debate? Any time, any place.

Iggy tweeted that response to the world, aware of the consequences of backing out.

Harper or his war room quickly decided the leaders' hustings challenge of a one-on-one debate was not such a great idea. So within hours, Harper was pulling back his own idea, in the most disengenuous way.

Harper yesterday tweeted Ignatieff:

    Curiously, my team proposed 1:1 to TV consortium today; however, your team did not speak up.

That is, excuse me, horse dung. The "teams" take their orders from the leaders. If the teams were tied up in logistical knots about an agreed-upon mano-a-mano, they'd just have to figure it out. Because their leaders were on record agreeing to a duel, and voters give a rat's ass about logistics.

Each would invite accusations of cowardice if he backed down. So Harper has tried his best to depict Ignatieff as being the one to back out of a one-on-one debate.

And that's a lie.

Kinsella dumps all over Harper today as a "chicken."

It's worse. In this incident, Harper has shown himself to be cowardly and a liar.

I don't use either word lightly. I admonished Duceppe for his Day 2 labelling of Harper as liar for distorting the intent of the notorious 2004 letter signed by Harper, Duceppe and Layton, making themselves available for the G-G's consideration as a coalition government seeking to deny Martin the chance to lead a minority government. There's enough wiggle room in the wording of that document to make "liar" uncalled for.

The PM's conduct yesterday and today are different. The PM lied to Canadians. A bald-faced lie, and not about the actual intent of an arcane document seven years ago. But on the question of who said what when in recent hours about a challenge to a duel - something any voter can relate to.

I don't get it. Partisan sentiment aside, what Harper and Ignatieff said is on videotape and printed-out tweets. Common sense says you can't try the gambit of the cheatin' good 'ol boy of C&W songs, who, contronted by his wife, asks: "Who ya gonna believe, me or your cheatin' eyes?"

For the umpteeth time in a campaign not a week old, Harper has stepped on his own message. But it's Week 1 and no one's paying attention. At least that's one of the truisms of the game. I have a feeling, though, that this item has legs, as Variety would say.

If the folks at Grit ad agency Red Leaf aren't splicing up footage right now for ads running during the NHL playoffs they should be fired.

Update

No name yet for the Tory campaign plane. Scott Feschuk suggests Chicken Wings.
 
You typically won't find me jumping to Harper's defence, but I think David Olive needs to take a deep breath and maybe take some time to understand what actually happened.  My understanding of Harper's comment was that while the teams from ALL parties were discussing the televised debate format with the Broadcast Consortium the Conservatives floated the idea of a 1 on 1 debate between Harper and Ignatieff.  Harper stated that the Liberals didn't respond one way or the other AT THAT TIME to the suggestion...not that it would have mattered because frankly I can't see any way that the NDP, the Bloc, or the Broadcast Consortium would have gone for that set-up.

Harper's PUBLIC call for the 1 on 1 debate was AFTER the Broadcast Consortium (together with the teams from the various parties) agreed to the televised debate format.  The "proof" of Harper's cowardice apparently occured BEFORE Harper ever made the public challenge to Ignatieff!  :p





 
God, can the liebral 'Red' Star be any more over the top and sensationalistic? Can they not even read english? News of the World, here we come.

Harper was tossing out hypotheticals. "We'd be open to doing this, this, or this. Whatever people want'

There was no open challenge to the Count Iggy, as all the leftist screaming tin foil brigade claim.

Harper chicken and a liar? How childish and immature. He's shown more balls in the last five years than the whole other side of the house put together.
 
The truth shall not stand in the way. I think, as posted previously, that the media has influence way out of proportion to any of their human abilities.

I fear that the election may be lost (my preference) due to the hatred of the media to all things/anything Mr. Harper.
 
>I suspect they're all just marking time, waiting for Trudeau to become the party saviour.

I don't see how being Margaret Trudeau's son qualifies one for high office...


If I had to draw up a top 10 list of Liberal fart-catchers, I'd be hard pressed to decide between David Olive or Aaron Wherry for #1.
 
recceguy said:
The liebrals aren't lily white in this.

Never did I say they were.  Never did I even imply they were.
 
recceguy said:
"We'd be open to doing this, this, or this. Whatever people want'
Sounds like someone I want leading the country.
There was no open challenge to the Count Iggy, as all the leftist screaming tin foil brigade claim.
Is it Count or Prince? I'm getting confused by where he is on the rung. It might affect my ballot, so I really want to be informed by what Russian dynasty he's connected to and how many people it would take to die for him to be the next President. or Tsar. or something.
 
hold_fast said:
Sounds like someone I want leading the country.

Love the drive by one liners from you. Its simple to understand that the debates are not for the candidates, they are for the people. PM Harper being open to whatever format the majority of people are in favor of is a good thing.
 
hold_fast said:
Sounds like someone I want leading the country.Is it Count or Prince? I'm getting confused by where he is on the rung. It might affect my ballot, so I really want to be informed by what Russian dynasty he's connected to and how many people it would take to die for him to be the next President. or Tsar. or something.

Are you bored? Exams finished?

If you've got nothing constructive to add then don't post.

Staff
 
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