Has the Carney Liberals broken a vow with Veterans and First Right of Refusal by the Commissionaires?

[Jarnhamar]

The fact that we haven’t had a mass shooting with numerous fatalities at a CFB or PRes armoury is purely a product of nobody yet deciding they want to commit a mass shooting with numerous fatalities at a CFB or a PRes armoury. It’s certainly not because of actual force protection measures.

Very recently I drove on to a base and the Commissionaire waved me through after holding up my ID. When I went to put my ID away I realized it was a green debit card.

 

[Furniture]

Very recently I drove on to a base and the Commissionaire waved me through after holding my my ID. When I went to put my ID away I realized it was a green debit card.

When I was in Cold Lake the passes for the restricted area were similar enough in look to a pack of Players Light that if you forgot your pass the pack would work most times, particularly after hours.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

RCN wise we are also quickly approaching a time where the security they, the Commissionaires, provide is not considered up to par with what will be required to operate the RCD and AEGIS.

You can bet the other private security firms are even less so. Particularly as their main source of employees are PR or someone who is a ordinarily resident in Canada . My friend in the RCMP, question how diligent the Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General's Security Programs Division is considering how many security guards in Surrey can't speak English.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You can bet the other private security firms are even less so. Particularly as their main source of employees are PR or someone who is a ordinarily resident in Canada . My friend in the RCMP, question how diligent the Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General's Security Programs Division is considering how many security guards in Surrey can't speak English.

I don't see private security having much of a future for the RCN. I think the time is coming fast when we will be crewing gates with armed CAF guards 24/7/365.

 

[brihard]

I don't see private security having much of a future for the RCN. I think the time is coming fast when we will be crewing gates with armed CAF guards 24/7/365.

I’d see both. Civilian security for stuff like ID checks and pass control, and some sort of armed presence for actual threats. That also has the benefit of not getting your armed guys and girls sucked into looking at ID cards and getting distracted.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Very recently I drove on to a base and the Commissionaire waved me through after holding up my ID. When I went to put my ID away I realized it was a green debit card.

At Discovery I checked the ID and expiry dates, but the challenge is the OR can't issue new ID before it expires.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I don't see private security having much of a future for the RCN. I think the time is coming fast when we will be crewing gates with armed CAF guards 24/7/365.

In Germany they had Germans in uniform at the gates and armed Canadian as well. I can't recall if the Germans were armed or not?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’d see both. Civilian security for stuff like ID checks and pass control, and some sort of armed presence for actual threats. That also has the benefit of not getting your armed guys and girls sucked into looking at ID cards and getting distracted.

I see RCN bases looking like Norfolk.

 

[brihard]

I see RCN bases looking like Norfolk.

Never been. What’s that look like to someone showing up to drive in?

 

[Blackadder1916]

In Germany they had Germans in uniform at the gates and armed Canadian as well. I can't recall if the Germans were armed or not?

'Some' of the Germans were armed, just like 'some' of the Canadians (mostly dependent spouses) were armed (position related - most visible being the airfield main gate). After a few instances of the Canadians pulling guns on each other (typically because of sexual infidelity - both marital and extra-marital), they took the Canadians' weapons away.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Never been. What’s that look like to someone showing up to drive in?

Its a big base. Multi lane gates with strictly controlled access with armed guards pass control is off to the side outside the gates. Generally by the Master-At-Arms, an MOSID that does force protection, law and security for the USN.

https://cnrma.cnic.navy.mil/Installations/NAVSTA-Norfolk/Operations-and-Management/Force-Protection/

Master-at-arms (United States Navy) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Master-at-Arms provide waterborne and land security, aircraft and flight line security, strategic weapons and cargo security, maritime security and platform protection; conduct customs operations, corrections operations, detainee operations, and protective service operations; perform force protection, physical security and law enforcement; organize and train personnel in force protection, physical security, law enforcement, and weapons proficiency; develop plans for physical security and force protection enhancement of Navy bases, installations, property, and personnel; and assist commands in conducting terrorist threat analysis and implementing defensive measures

 

[AmmoTech90]

1990 the dependent guards were still armed.

 

[Blackadder1916]

1990 the dependent guards were still armed.

I was there 90-92, when I went up to Baden for a year to close that and returned to Lahr in 93 until closure in 94. I think they were still armed during the Gulf War (early 91 - increased security, including armed guards on the school buses, but that task was done by the Van Doos). The weapons may have been removed either later that year or maybe early 92 after (as the story goes) a couple of female guards at the main gate drew down on each other because they were jealous of the other sleeping with a third guard (male) who was screwing both. All three had other spouses. Guess they weren't satisfied with a OMO box in the window.

LB: Lahr Military Police Section

By Lieutenant-Colonel Paul Thobo-Carlsen (Retired) , CMPA Director of History & Heritage.

www.cmpa-apmc.org

CFE civilian guards were armed with 9mm pistols beginning in 1987

 

[AmmoTech90]

Sounds right, I was there in 89 for Fallex and 90 to support the Gulf War from Baden.

 

[Kilted]

You can bet the other private security firms are even less so. Particularly as their main source of employees are PR or someone who is a ordinarily resident in Canada . My friend in the RCMP, question how diligent the Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General's Security Programs Division is considering how many security guards in Surrey can't speak English.

You're really not going to get any better quality going with another company. The reality is that the overall quality will probably be worse. While they have been hiring civilians for 25 years now, they are still selective to a degree. There are still enough veterans in the organization to keep standards up. If there are concerns about particular guards, they should be reported. The Commissionaires, like any other organisation (including the CAF) do get deadweight. The difference is that it is a lot easier for them (the Commissionaires) to get rid of the deadweight.

 

[ArmyRick]

You're really not going to get any better quality going with another company. The reality is that the overall quality will probably be worse. While they have been hiring civilians for 25 years now, they are still selective to a degree. There are still enough veterans in the organization to keep standards up. If there are concerns about particular guards, they should be reported. The Commissionaires, like any other organisation (including the CAF) do get deadweight. The difference is that it is a lot easier for them (the Commissionaires) to get rid of the deadweight.

They were fired out of ATC-C Meaford in 2020 for being unable to man the last position they had. I won't speak for other bases but I have not heard flattering things.