Homeless in Fort York Armouries

[winchable]

"The response would be overwhelming no doubt"


...the overwhelming response of people driving by and going "Get a job then" or "stupid hitchiker"
or "stupid bum"

Fact of the matter is, very, very, very few people are willing to do anything even when the cry for help is so blatant.

 

[girlfiredup]

Che, why don‘t you try it sometime. Place a sign on the side of the road and tell me how many contacts you get for job leads. I‘m willing to bet you would end up with a job by the end of the day.

There was someone here in Ottawa that did that a few years ago and the guy ended up getting a job in the IT field for $12 an hour around there. Mind you, he wasn‘t homeless but hey, he might have been if he CHOSE not to do anything about his situation.

 

[winchable]

So are you suggesting that every homeless person stands by the side of the road and does that?

If he wasn‘t homeless, and had the education to be able to have a job in the IT field, chances are once people followed him up on that sign they found all this out and hired him.

If I did that, they would find out that I‘m a highschool graduate, a university student, a private business owner, with a family, no history of mental defect, no physical defect and a serving member of the reserves.

If a homeless person (A real one mind you) were to do that, they MIGHT get an interview, where the employer will find out that the person has had no steady job, maybe a highschool graduate (although most likely not) might have a mental problem, physical defects (birth defect) history of abuse, no family and no prospects for the future.

I would end up with a job, a real homeless person, would not.

If you do not want to help people less fortunate then you that‘s fine, lots of people don‘t. However, as a soldier I think it‘s my duty in and out of uniform to help those who can‘t help themselves.

Earlier you said "Feed a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetimeâ ?
The problem is finding a teacher, which is where the government steps in and does their job.

 

[Evan]

Here in hawaii there are alot of homless people, most is due to addiction (ICE, it plagues hawaii), majority of murders and other crimes were comittted by criminals who were on ice.

after comining out of prison these people are rejected by society, would u want to hire a ex ice user? (for those who dont know, crystal meth aka ICE cause such side effects as schizophrenia, paranoia, and other mental problems.)

Alot of ex users who come out, helped and well tacken care of, hope to get jobs and start a new life, but when unable to do so they become homless and turn back to crime.
Currently Hawaii is fighting ice with everything they got, and the hawaiin ohana is starting to help the ex users, busnesses are starting to hire theses ex convicts to do manuel labor, and other light jobs.

And thats basicly what we have to do, no matter how hard it would be to get past the trust issue, there are people out on the streets who dont want to be there, but society has not helped them back on there feet, some of them might just fall back down but the few that stay standing maybe just the best workers there employer may have ever seen. :boring: n/m i forgot what was talking about anyways, this has probably been my bigest post yet

 

[girlfiredup]

Che, no I‘m not suggesting every homeless person stands on the side of the road looking for work but then again, if that‘s what it takes. What I meant is the homeless need to make a conscious (sp) effort to change and take advantage of the services available to them.

Also, as person who donates over $6000 to charities locally and internationally, I wouldn‘t say I am to be classified as one not willing to help out the homeless. If I had a few million, I would take them all in, clean them up, dress them up (they might start feeling a whole lot better after that) and get them educated/trained and then get them out in the real work world but my point is they have to be willing.

 

[winchable]

Well then we agree?

Back to the Fort York armouries, before the thread spins into oblivion.

Can someone who trains there, give a fairly detailed first hand description of the problem?

Also, has anyone sent a complaint up the chain?

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

ok, heres my take on this situation.

I‘ve been going downtown around FYA for some time now, with a larger group doing volunteer work. We hand out socks, food..anything the homeless people we meet along the way need.

I find the mantality of most of Toronto absolutely sickening. People stepping over these people, treating them like **** in the treads of their shoes, and I‘ve even seen people steal blankets from a persons set-up for kicks.

If FYA wants to house these people, good for them. its about time people realised they are people just like us, looking for a hand. Notice I didnt say "hand-out". I‘ve talked to ALOT of homeless people, and the majority want to work. They simply cant due to their current situation. They‘re in a rut, and its not hard to get out on ones own.

Yes, FYA IS an Armoury, and yes, its an inconvenience.

But how about people put their own petty issues aside, and open up to it. As a soldier, you have the duty to protect and serve your country (ALL citizens within). You dont pick and choose pending on your own inconvenience. But whats greater, as a human being, you have the obligation to help others.

 

[Derick Lewis]

I‘m very torn on this issue myself, I belive that the homeless need something, what that is I havent a clue. However my sticking point is this, we are a Military as such yes it is our job to "Protect" our country however our "service" stops at that barring the usual natural distaster clean up and such, we serve the people only in so much as to protect them to do what they deem is in their best intrest as a free society. It seems to me that a Military training area is not a place to house the homeless, it is where those members who have chosen to be in the military train for the day when they may be called upon to deffend the country and or its governments intrest. Seeing as how the homeless are at the least hindering or at the most stoping the use of the building for training, they should not be there. Also if they cause a disturbence such as swearing at the troops or interfering in activites they should be removed and banned. The issue is moot of course seeing as how they are leving the armoury soon, but I think it should be brought up through the chain that this situation isn‘t the best for the troops or the military in general, seeing as how it degrades from the areas reservist from meeting their training goals.

Just my 2c though perhaps I‘m wrong or my logic is flawed?

 

[armydrake01]

Not that I think all homeless are bums, there are legitimate problems out there that are in there situation from circumstances greater than them. However, I did read some time ago in a Reader‘s Digest an article by a journalist who had posed as a homeless man for a month to determine the extent of the problem and just how needy the people were. His analysis of the situation was this: the majority of those on the street were there by their choosing and were making more money than him by faudulent welfare activity, begging and "other means". The people that actually needed the help were the ones that couldn‘t ask for it or find it themselves. For your information he was in Toronto when he conducted this study. There are certainly people out there who need and deserve our sympathy and help, unfortunately, the laziness and selfishness of those who don‘t but are demanding it anyway is doing a great deal to keep them from getting it. I would suspect that the people yelling obscenities are probably those who do not really need the help and so don‘t appreciate it. Perhaps you should point out to the others that are behaving that their roommates are going to land them all back in the cold. Maybe they will sort the problem out themselves.

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

Originally posted by Che:
[qb] Also, has anyone sent a complaint up the chain? [/qb]

We have had a couple of briefings in the situation and what to expect, but even our CO doesn‘t like it anymore then we do. No one can do anything about it; it was a decision made higher-up (WAY higher-up) and that‘s that.

We were told if there were any specific complaints to send it up the chain and it would be dealt with (I‘m assuming someone would talk to the city staff working there, etc.)

 

[winchable]

Perhaps the larger situation cannot be fixed, but certainly specific problems such as rowdiness and interference can be sorted out at a low level by the city staff that are there.

As for the idea that some are simply mooching the system and abusing it, that is hard to deal with. But, are we to ignore the truly needy in order to avoid these people? It‘s unfortunate and quite ineffecient that there are people who abuse the system etc. but it‘s compassion and mercy like that that make Canada a good place to live.

However, If they only have a week left, really there isn‘t much point in getting all worked up over it.
Some situations can‘t be ideal, the only way to get through them is to grin and bear it.(think BMQ)

 

[GerryCan]

My opinion in the matter is that it may be an inconvenience to the soldiers that normally train at the Fort to have to go elsewhere to do so and have the place smell bad. But if it in no way interferes with training, than I think it is no big deal. If it DOES interfere with training than I think they should be sending them off somewhere else. We need all the training we can get, reserve or reg force, so I dont believe it should be put in our court in that sense. But like I said, if it‘s causing nothing more than a slight inconvenience well than I‘d rather see them there instead of dead on the street. Whether or not homeless people in Canada have an excuse? I have my opinions, but it‘s a topic that can be argued over for years on end if you‘ve got the right minds on each side, so I‘ll leave it at that.

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

This isn‘t the first time this has happened. Bases have been used in the past to house homeless and even refugees. Kosovar refugees were housed in a few bases just a few years ago. St-Jean was used during the Ice Storm as well. These were probably quite different than this but it shows that different levels of civil bureaucrats are willing to use these buildings for this sort of thing. I wonder if it is a sign of things to come. Besides the homeless people might come in handy if a PLQ is being run and you need a few extra bodies for a drill mutual.

 

[Harris]

My 2 cents:

Rant on.
In my opinion, more than %50 of the "homeless" people I‘ve talked to are there because they want to be there. For example I asked one guy who approached me for $ in Halifax, why he was begging and not looking for a job. His answer was that he had finished University and just needed some time to "find himself". I‘ve offered to buy a homeless person a meal instead of giving him $ and been refused. I admit that there are legitimate people out there who need our help, but I suspect the number is really low compared to the grand total of "homeless people". Personally I don‘t feel that using any armouries as a shelter is acceptable EXCEPT in an Emergency. Some may say that this is an emergency, but when an activity takes place year after year, I don‘t consider it an emergency. What about all the vacent Military housing that is located across Canada? Why not fix it up and work out some plan to help people move into these and become a productive member of society instead of tearing them down? Here‘s a suggestion I‘m sure will draw fire: Why not stop sending $ to other countries and use it instead for our own poor/handicapped/homeless/etc? If it is such a problem in Canada why are we helping others first?

If I were the King I‘d decree that all persons who were on welfare/homeless/etc or not otherwise employeed (except those with physical or mental issues) be required to work for their keep. Many examples have been given above but there are tons of jobs that no body wants to do that doesn‘t require University education.

Rant off.

 

[Infanteer]

There isn‘t many excuses for being homeless in the socialist paradise that Canada is.

I work hard enough as it is to have any sympathy for junkies and lazy bums.

 

[portcullisguy]

I‘m going to weigh in on this not because I know what‘s going on with the homeless at FYA, but because my prior job had me in contact with homeless people quite often.

I worked security a few years back at an office tower/mall complex in downtown Toronto. I saw many homeless come through the mall, and for the most part they were self sufficient but quite firm in their desire to stay in their situation.

At the time, the Public Guardian & Trustee‘s office was located at this mall, and for adults who were mentally ill, but not in a custodial situation, the PG&T would dole out their funds (regardless of the source) to the beneficiaries every weekday, Mon to Fri.

Oh what an assortment of people would show up! Such a rowdy bunch on Fridays, especially, that a paid duty police officer was required to keep order. And these folks were lining up for free money, in most cases. Some of them were on welfare, and the PG&T would give them their funds in small increments so that they had some left over to pay rent, etc. Some of these folks were heirs to fortunes, and would have their money given to them in small portions for the same reasons.

Within a few hours of them getting their cash from the kiosk, we would find them quite often in one of the building‘s stairwells, smoking up a crack rock. We couldn‘t ban them from the property, because they had a "right" to go back to the PG&T office for their money the next day.

Even the normal assortment of panhandlers I‘d watched over the months work the Yonge & Dundas area, easily half would scoot off the street as soon as they had their $20 for their rock. We used to see them exiting stairwells on the video cameras, and find the evidence (baggies and crack cans/pipes) where they had been. And they‘d be out again hustling for hand outs.

An unseen portion of homeless never came to our attention, I‘ll admit, because they‘d just pass through the mall without making a fuss, and without smoking any drugs. Good on them. But even these ones for the most part were mentally ill in some way (then again, I‘m no doctor).

One thing I do know for sure: If I found myself in the unfortunate circumstance of living on the streets, I would ensure the situation was remedied at the double-quick time. Food banks, hand outs, and shelters are nothing more than a temporary fix.

 

[Jeff Boomhouwer]

I train at FYA. Our guests of the city have added an interesting aroma to the parade square, shouted at us "Oakaaaa!!!" And have made going to the bathroom a pain in the ***. However, I have signed my name to defending citizens of this country in time of need. Not when it‘s covienient for me or interrups my training a little. You people that are complaining should re evaluate the reason you signed on.these people are in need. Yes some have cell phones. Have you thought that maybe that would be the way a potential employer may get a hold of them? I‘m sure there are a few that abuse the system or have their priorities out of whack. But the vast majority had a spell of bad luck or became ill or whatever you see my point. It‘s the few bad apples that stand out and ruin it for mass. Remember the Canadian Airborne Reg.? If I can help by giving a few hundred square feet of space in a building most of us go to 5 hours a week then so be it. I sure if your on course it sucks. Hey welcome to the army. Your the lowest on the totem pole. Suck it up troop or go home. If your crying already I don‘t want you in my unit.

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

Looks like the homeless will be out by Friday (plus it‘s no longer as cold as it was when the armoury was first opened as a shelter) so I guess this will pretty much become a non-issue, as it was only a temporary solution to the homeless problem.

Oh by the way the figure of 100 people a night is incorrect, that was only when it was much colder. I was there this week and there couldn‘t have been more then 30 people using the shelter.


Short reprieve for armoury shelter



Toronto â ” The Fort York Armoury will remain open as a homeless shelter until Friday as the city seeks alternate arrangements for the people who use it.

The armoury was temporarily converted to a shelter last month, but is now needed for military training exercises.

The city had arranged to use the facility as shelter for three weeks. After one extension, that arrangement had been set to end after today.

The temporary shelter has been used by about 100 people a night.

 

[jimbunting]

Some of you are missing the POINT.

There is a HOMELESS INDUSTRY here in canada. One that NEEDS to have a continuing supply of "homeless persons" so that THEY can continue to have a job, being "homeless advocates".

Example: The City of Toronto spends $31,000 per "homeless person" every year, to supply shelters, food and medical services to them. The "homeless advocates" are now trying to get the city council to reduce the Metro Police budget for "comunity policing" which serves EVERYONE, and put that money ( millions of dollars) towards the "homeless" who by even the most liberal estimates number kess than 5,000 people in Toronto.

The "homeless advocates" have absolutely no intetest in "solving the problem" as that would mean that they would no longer get Federal, provincial, and city funding, which means they would be OUT OF A JOB. Its real easy to be a bleeding heart when you get a nice pay cheque for doing so. Don‘t agree with me. Do some research and find out how much these "advocates" are being paid, with YOUR TAX DOLLARS. There are litteraly DOZENS of "homeless groups " in Toronto, all operating on tax dollars.

As for the location of a homeless shelter.......If WE the taxpayers are going to PAY for it, why can‘t it be somewhere really nice, like the Ontario Legislature, or the main floor of the Toronto Stock Exchange? Nah, too public, too messy, lets just use the DND armory, those army guys wouldn‘t complain, they are suppossed to "serve the public" right?

I took the time to go down to Fort York, one day last week, at about 8 am. The "homeless types" were all gathered at the west end entrance, having a smoke. The group, of about 10 people, looked to be quite capable of walking and talking, and the clothes they were wearing looked quite presentable, with lots of just like new winter parkas and caps, probably donated by some charity. I can tell a bunch of scammers when I see them, and thats what these people were.

Funny how the vast majority of these people are NOT immigrants to Canada. I wonder why? More self esteeem, more dignity? You tell me?

Jim Bunting.

 

[winchable]

"Funny how the vast majority of these people are NOT immigrants to Canada. I wonder why? More self esteeem, more dignity? You tell me?"

I‘m sorry, could you elaborate.
I‘m not trying to make a big deal for once, I‘m just not sure I understand that.