How to create insurgents

[1feral1]

:fifty:

This really arcs me up and shytes me off to no end!

I am beginning to think fubarII and smoothbore are one of the same. As for a VN dinosaur, I was 15 when the war ended back in 1975, and just a kid. That almost sounded like a quote directed to Gunny Highway in the movie   Heartbreak Ridge.

Thanks for banning this *****wit (Aussie term for waste of rations, skin, time, and air). Its stains like that bloke who seem to get some kind of twisted enjoyment of creating unrest, and he is/was being a terrorist here on this site. Good riddence!

Excuse my rudeness but, why *****'s mum did not cop it ** *** **** or *******, we'll never know. Another classic reason why some animals in the wild eat their young. Anyways enough said on another used ****** of society, and I am sure he'll be smoking bongs with his lefty student and unemployed friends drinking daddys warm beer stolen from the   fridge.

As for war, any professional soldier hates it, but it is sometimes its necessary as a last resort. Any soldier who feels otherwise or glorifies any war should not be wearing the uniform. We are an insurance policy which at times is opened, and the price paid for this policy is our lives, as the weak and wus sit back and play with their play stations, and watch CNN. Only commenting to criticise.

As for the weak ones like fubar, smoothbore and 48, who live in a sheltered environment (home with mum, dad and sis), maybe what they need is to have some life experience in the real world, not watching Blackhawk Down or Saving Pte Ryan (BTW these are great movies). Real life is far different than a wknd militia ex at Meaford!

Try seeing the trauma and feeling the horror on victims of terror, or seeing and smelling a corpse of a victim split wide open ripening in the hot Indonesian sun. Families flying in from Sydney to try to   identify crisp charred remains of their loved ones in un-refrigereated areas at 40C and 100% humidity a week after the bombing while standing in body fluids 3cm deep. Imagine how it must have felt for them. So, you boys and I use that term loosley, you should hang your heads in shame for your silly unthought of comments, and even hang them lower for the deliberate ignorant comments you have made.
:cam:

I think I have said enough for now. Time for a dinner and a Jack D, then back to work til late!

Its not the goat herders I am worried about, its the greasy little cowards right now who are comtemplating or planning   a terror act in your city.


Cheers from another warm wintery day here on Australia's eastern coast,


Wes

[moderator note:   edited for language, in order to maintain a "PG" rating for this post]

 

[finbar]

Wes,  Et al: Have a look at this link to a recent Ralph Peters paper. It characterizes a number of themes in this war on terrorism. Make no mistake, it is a war. A good read indeed.

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/04summer/peters.pdf

"We need plain talk, honest answers, and the will to close with the enemy
and kill him".

 

[48Highlander]

Old Guy:     Thanks for the attempt, but I never stated or insinuated that excessive or indiscriminate violence was occuring in Iraq "all the time".   It obviously IS happening, but I beleive it's getting better.   America has plenty of it's own Wesleys though, and as long as his ilk exist within the military, the PR machine will have to work in overdrive if Americans plan on keeping any friends instead of making more enemies.

Wesley:    If you truly beleive that "when you got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow", you're living in a dream world.   Think about how you would react if a ME country invaded Australia, made you all worship Allah, imposed a secular government with a dictator you couldn't vote for, and then went about shooting any of your relatives who opposed them as well as, once in a while, those who cooperated.   If your "heart and mind" followed your balls, you'd be one weak kneed mother*****r.   Any man who isn't a complete waste of skin would only fight harder.   You think your attitude makes you strong?   You think wanting to indiscriminantly kill off one of the worlds major religions somehow makes you "tough" or more of a man?   Hitler had an attitude very similar to yours my friend.   He beleived that the Jews were ruining his country, and that the only way to protect his people against them was with a "tough" attitude like yours.   I didn't much like his ideas, and I deffinitely don't like yours.   And before you start trying to tell me that you don't want to kill of all Muslims, please, don't bother.   Hitler never claimed to want the death of all Jews either.   He simply wanted them controlled.   He wanted to "grab 'em by their balls" so their hearts and minds would follow.   Now, do you want to hear about someone with a "weak" attitude like mine?   During the Seond World War, David Stirling, the founder of the Brittish SAS threw a granade into a room and killed several Germans.   He didn't do it to achieve his aim, and he bitterly regreted it.   He said it was a waste of life, and it pissed him off.

Padraig:   I'm not even going to bother with this one.   We've already established that you're a racist, psychotic *******.   Move out of the trailer park, and seek help.   Goodbye.

Karpovage:   I tried to read your post, but I'm not sure that it was written in English.   From what I did understand, it seems that you beleive that the only way to kill a cancer is by killing the host, and that human beings are destined to kill eachother over anything and everything untill we're all wiped out.   I think that's pessimism at it's extreme.   I'd like to beleive, from what I see in NATO countries, that we humans can learn and can change.   That as long as we keep trying, we CAN find a better way.   I think you and Wesley are trying to take the easy way out.   And even if I'm wrong...I would gladly give my life to further the ideals of our society...but I would NEVER fight for beleifs like yours or Wesleys.

Edited for profanity - muskrat89

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

..at least not from my hiding spot anyway... :

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Lad,
Although Wes is very passionate about what he says, I NEVER read anywhere that he advocated taking out a whole religion. Stop reading what you want to read. He does advocate taking out the militants that are the cause of our current problem.
You say that you would gladly give your life to further the ideals of our society, well maybe some people don't plan on doing that by just sitting in a nightclub having a drink.
You would NEVER fight for beliefs that did'nt coincide with yours? Well get out now just in case you get tasked to go somewhere that disagree's with you.
EDIT: ..and a demote won;t change a thing, son.

 

[48Highlander]

Lad, thanks, but I somehow doubt the CF will ever task me to go around wiping out people indescriminantly, so I don't plan on leaving.  If you haven't seen Wes advocating things of that nature, you must not have been reading his post fully.  Yes, defending our ideals does involve fighting.  I have no problem shooting a suicide bomber before he can set himself off, taking out terrorist at their ammunition dumps and training facilities, or arresting those linked with terrorist networks.  What I do have a problem with is those who perpetuate hate based on their own perceptions of a culture or a religion.  What I DO have a problem is killing innocents in order to get to the criminals, when those killings would have been avoided if the innocents had been white instead of brown, or had worn a baseball cap instead of a turban.  And what I DO have a problem with is the idea that all of the worlds problems can magically be solved through violence.  People have been trying that for thousands of years, and it has never worked.  Violence deffinitely has it's place, but if that's all we rely on, we'll NEVER stop fighting.  We need a better way.

 

[Infanteer]

We need a better way.

Well, until you find it, why don't you quit preaching to us and throwing around your accusations of racists and trailer parks.

 

[48Highlander]

Silly me, I was under the impression that these forums exist for coming up with, and debating ideas.

 

[Infanteer]

It is.

But you've given your ideas and it has been shot down.  Instead of trying to provide evidence to back up your claims, you've labeled Wes of wanting genocide, Padraig of being psychotic trailer trash, and Karpovage of being unable to write in English.

All you've done is provide this as an idea.

And what I DO have a problem with is the idea that all of the worlds problems can magically be solved through violence.

Tell that to the Carthaginians.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Now you're pissing me off. Go back to  post # 42 and see where you allowed for anything to be debated.
Stop hiding behind words you don't mean when someone turns on the heat. Sad

 

[48Highlander]

Wow.  Are you two TOTALY out of touch with reality?


A)  My ideas have been "shot down" by with remarks like "that sort of thinking is weak" and "we need to grab 'em by the balls goddamit".  That's not a logical response, nor does it in any way adress the issues I've tried to bring up, so ofcourse I'm going to attempt to debate the issue.
B)  Neither the Carthegians nor the Romans exist any more, which is a damn good example that violence did not solve their problems.
C)  Bruce, your condescending attitude is pissing ME off.  If you want to discuss anything, please refrain from calling me "lad", and try to keep a bit of an open mind.  I left plenty of room for debate in my post.  Wesley is free to reply and correct me on any points I may have been mistaken about, or he's free to continue to flame me and others who advocate using brains in addition to muscle.  As he has done repeatedly in this thread. 

 

[muskrat89]

Obviously this is a high-powered issue - let's stay on track or I'll kill the thread.

48Highlander - I edited one of you other posts. Someone as intellectual as you claim to be shouldn't need to use mother*****r to make a point. Not just military people use view these forums


As far as the broad range of opinions presented.....

I guess Nicholas Berg needed better negotiating skills - that was the problem...    :

 

[48Highlander]

I never claimed to be an intelectual, but you're right.  I assumed the word would be automatically censored, and did not notice that it was not.

And who ever said anything about negotiating with terorists?  That's a horrible idea.  In the past, whenever the US violated it's policy of not negotiating with terrorists, it's only worsened the situation.  But there's a big difference between refusing to negotiate with terrorists and hostage takers, and indescriminantly killing and torturing civilians and detainess.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

..but the moment the terrorist becomes a detainee treat him with kid gloves?...No,regretably the old POW way of thinking cannot apply to these people.

 

[muskrat89]

indescriminantly killing and torturing civilians and detainess

That's the point, that everyone is trying to make. I can't see where Wes or anyone else has advocated the indiscriminate killing and torturing of civilians or detainees.

Nor is that a policy of the United States - yes, several isolated incidents, but not policy

You know what else? If throwing a pair of panties and a leash over the head of an Afghani "detainee" had yielded information that would have saved Canadian lives - I'd be all for it.

 

[48Highlander]

Bruce:  And what about the civilian who becomes a detainee because we mistakenly beleive him to be a terrorist?  Beat him senseless untill he confesses to crimes he did not commit?

Muskrat:  Here's what I said to wesley earlier:

"We need to fight terrorism, yes, and that certainly does involve killing people and blowing crap up.  However, it also involves winning over those who haven't turned into fanatics quite yet.  You can either help them rebuild a school and win them over to your side, or blow up their homes and send 'em over to the other side."

He replied by saying my point of view was "weak" and "sheltered" and suggested I get out in the "real world".  Now I don't know about you, but that certainly seems to suggest that he thinks indiscriminate bombings and killings are ok.

I know that it's not a US policy, I never meant to suggest otherwise.  It just seems to me that it's the personal policy of Wesley and his ilk.

As for throwing a pair of panties over a prisoners head and saving lives and all that...yeah sure, fine.  If it saves lives, why not?  But that's a very big if.  Are you going to humiliate every single prisoner, guilty or innocent, on the off chance that one of them might tell you something useful?  I'm all for beating the crap out of a detainee if it'll save lives too.  But beating the crap out of all of 'em and hoping one tells you what you need to know?  Why don't we move on to torture next?  Or how about holding their families hostage?  Where do you draw the line?  Once you start modifying your own moral code, and start treating people in a way you KNOW is wrong, it becomes that much easier to go the next step.  Germany did not decide to take over the world and exterminate the Jews overnight.  It's a slow, slippery slope, with each step generating more momentum towards the next one.  It's much easier to keep yourself from taking the first step than to try and stop once you're already moving.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

In case you did'nt notice, a couple of days ago was the 60th anniversary of thousands of people "modifying" thier moral code. I'm sure untill that day most had never shot at a human being before. My father seemed to recover from "that slippery slope" just fine, thanks.

 

[48Highlander]

In case YOU haven't noticed, there's absolutely nothing in most peoples moral codes that prevents them from shooting someone in self defence.  Let's not be silly here Bruce.

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

I suppose violence never solved anything. No, violence didn't solve  problems like Nazism, Fascism. It never solved the slavery in southern US or cessesion. It never solved the death camps. It never solved Japanese imperalism. As for calling me a racist...buddy until you actually meet me face to face and realize what a retarded statement that is you'll just have to take my word that I am not. I never ever advocated violence or harrassment based on skin colour, ethnicity, religion. Only to those terrorist. Read a post or two of mine you'll see that though I'm no liberal that last thing I am is a racist psychopath.

 

[bossi]

Okay, gents.  Back to your corners, cool down.
When the bell sounds, you can resume the bout - but, no hititng below the belt.

As somebody said, it's "... a slippery slope ..." (and, there's a lot of slippage going on here).

"Ding!"