I know it says Army..............

[Inch]

Inch,

Do you happen to know if there is a high demand for Air Navigators now? Or am I looking at a long wait before a position opens?

I'm not too sure about the ANav trade for sure, I know that a lot of new aircraft don't have them. We will have them on the new Maritime Helicopter (CH148 Cyclone is the name that's on it's way up the chain), they're a vital part of an MH crew so I don't see them leaving anytime soon. Every trade in the Airforce is hurting, so I imagine there's a demand for Navs too. However, the recruiting centre has certain spots they need to fill so don't let them convince you to go somewhere else if Nav is what you want.  Once you get in, it's about a 6 month wait or maybe a little longer for CFANS (the nav school in Winnipeg) and the course could take up to a year. Your options other than MH are Hercs, Auroras and I think there's a very few Buffalo slots.  Hope this helps.

Cheers

 

[Pieman]

Thanks Inch that helps a lot. 6 months!  Is that wait before or after BMQ you think?
I sill have to take french language training after BMQ, so I hope the wait is after I get in. I have had my application in for about 8 months now, so I don't want to die from old age before I get to do this. lol

Either way, I think AirNav could be worth the wait.

 

[jutes85]

Thanks for the Info Inch. Its good to hear that the Air Force needs manpower, good for me, no too good for them.

I was hopeing you have info on when the courses for Air Force techs usually start. I've been waiting for a course to start for a long while and I don't think that its because of a full class.

Thanks for any info.

 

[Inch]

Pieman, I think it's definitely worth the wait, you'll be making good money doing a very cool job.  I'm a little biased but I'd suggest Sea Kings and only because you'll be the only nav on board, not like the Auroras with half a dozen navs, all looking over each other's shoulder.  Once you're sworn in you'll head to St Jean for BOTC, you shouldn't be waiting long for that.  Normally they'll wait till about 2 weeks prior to your course to swear you in for obvious reasons, we ain't just givin' money away So once you get the call it'll all happen relatively quickly, sworn in, 2-3 weeks later start BOTC (they've recently changed it so I don't even know the duration anymore, mine was 14 weeks so I don't imagine it'll be very different from that.  Then you've got language school for 33 weeks and once that's done, the wait for CFANS begins.  It's not too bad though, you get to go to a sqn and see what life on sqn is like, you'll do sea and land survival while you wait as well as Aeromedical Training (AMT, basically high altitude training for hypoxia and such). Those courses are about a week long each, land survival and AMT are in Winnipeg and sea survival is in Comox. Once you're done CFANS, you'll get posted to a sqn, you'll put your 3 choices down for postings (at some point during your nav course) and they try to get you what you want. After that you wait for the Operational Training Unit (OTU), but don't worry, you'll have your wings and be making pretty decent money so it's not all bad. Anyways, hope this helps.

Jutes, I'm not really too familiar with what goes on at CFSATE, though most courses in the military run on a schedule like 5 per year or whatever the case may be.  I'm guessing you're done recruit school in St Jean? If you are you could always ask your boss to check when you'll be course loaded.  If you haven't done recruit school, have faith, the recruiting centres are just as undermanned as everyone else in the military.

Cheers,

 

[casing]

Great info, Inch!

About the course length for basic, the dates specified on my offer letter indicate that IAP is going to be 8 weeks long and BOTP is going to be 6 weeks (this must be one of the changes as I believe IAP used to be 6 and BOTP 8).  Immediately followed by up to 33 weeks of SLT.

Inch, this might be stretching your knowledge a bit, but do you have any insight into the training schedule for AERE?  I'm mostly interested in the PPT (Personal Phase Training) aspect of it.  Got some good info from Zoomie before, but more is always better!

 

[Inch]

Great info, Inch!

About the course length for basic, the dates specified on my offer letter indicate that IAP is going to be 8 weeks long and BOTP is going to be 6 weeks (this must be one of the changes as I believe IAP used to be 6 and BOTP 8).   Immediately followed by up to 33 weeks of SLT.

Inch, this might be stretching your knowledge a bit, but do you have any insight into the training schedule for AERE?   I'm mostly interested in the PPT (Personal Phase Training) aspect of it.   Got some good info from Zoomie before, but more is always better!

So those were the changes, it used to be called Basic Officer Training Course parts 1 & 2, part 1 was 8 weeks and part 2 was 6 weeks. If you did them back to back you only had to do 5 weeks for BOTC II.

I'd love to help you out but I'm not familiar with the AERE trade, I have a friend that's an AERE so I'll look into it for you.

Cheers,

 

[Zoomie]

Hey Inch.. How's life with the Sea Thing?  Did you go up for a ride when they buzzed the Macdonald Bridge?

Day by day there seems to be more and more Blue on these means.  Soon they will have to call it Army(Airforce).ca

On the Aurora we only have 4 cones on board - and we try and keep them strapped in at all times - except when we are hungry of course!   

Any word on when your OTU starts, I know George is out there...  Mine starts around Oct'05 !! 

Airforce life is a lot of fun folks - hard but rewarding work makes for a great work environment.

Inch and I are in a good position to field any specific questions about the Pilot trade.  We both just recently graduated to Wings Standards are quite versed in the training aspect required.  Recruiting issues and basic training tends to be a little foggy for us "seasoned" vets of the 32(U) trade - we both had 33 weeks of intense drinking, er language school, to wipe our memories clear.

 

[Inch]

Port, is that you? How's Comox? Halifax is sweet and no, I wasn't on the flypast, though in all fairness, I think they were taking off or landing  

I run into George once and a while, he's over at 406 and doesn't poke his head around 423 very much.   They're telling me Sept but I'll believe it when I've got a mighty Sea King strapped to my butt. Oct 05'? Man I'm going to have my first gong by then, sweet deployments!

 

[mdh]

Inch/ Zoomie,

Thanks for your time and patience answering Air Nav questions, you've been very helpful. Would you happen to know what tests you would undergo at Aircrew Selection for Air Nav? I'm told there is a high failure rate. Any insights would be appreciated, cheers, mdh

 

[Inch]

I went through the Community College Entry Plan (now closed, sorry boys  :'( ), and I only had to do the medical part of Aircrew Selection.  Zoomie may have an answer for you.

Cheers,

 

[casing]

I need to correct my earlier post about the lengths of IAP and BOTP.  I double checked and IAP is actually going to be 9 weeks, with BOTP lasting 5 weeks.  So still 14 weeks, but there seems to be a change in focus.  brneil had mentioned to me quite some time ago that the CF had some changes in store for BOTC, to make it more along the lines of NCM basic.  I guess a 9-week IAP goes along that.

 

[Zoomie]

Inch, it is I, the left side of a boat.  How I do miss your toothy grin - I still think you and Chad swap those teeth day by day.

Comox is great.  I could not think of a better place to be waiting for an OTU.  I will have to spend 6 months in Greenwood eventually - but I think I can deal with that.

MDH: Nav selection is predominately intellectual - while Pilot selection at Aircrew Selection is hands and feet.  From what I remember (it's been 11 years since Aircrew Selection for me) - the Nav tests were mostly numbers and your ability to read them very quickly (ie Speed tests).  I would bone up on all of the available IQ tests that you can find on the web, they might be able to give you an upper hand.  Needless to say, I did not make the standard for Navigator - there go my dreams. 

In case you can not read my sarcasm, there exists a bit of professional rivalry between Pilots (aka God) and Navigators (aka the gus in the back).  It's all a part of the great life you may find in the Airforce.

 

[Inch]

Inch, this might be stretching your knowledge a bit, but do you have any insight into the training schedule for AERE?   I'm mostly interested in the PPT (Personal Phase Training) aspect of it.   Got some good info from Zoomie before, but more is always better!

Ok, this is what I got.  After SLT you go to Borden for your phase training, my friend didn't mention the length of that but it's a few months.  Afterwards are the PPTs, PPT 2 is 45 training days and it's on the hangar floor with the Cpls & MCpls, PPT 3 is 40 training days and again it's on the hangar floor with Sgts and WOs this time.  PPT 4 is a little shorter and this time you're working with MWOs and AEREs. The PPTs have to been done on at least 2 different airframes at 2 different bases.  My friend did one of her PPTs at Cold Lake on the Hornets and the other 2 here in Shearwater. Have fun and make sure you get some rides on whatever you can, you may not get the chance again to go for a Hornet ride.

Cheers

 

[casing]

Awesome, thanks!

Interesting about the timing for the phase training, though.  According to the occupation sheet (you know, the glossy ones down at the CFRC or online) the phase training (5 months) happens after the PPTs.  I guess it doesn't really matter and would likely depend upon when the course in Borden is slated to start.

 

[Inch]

You got me man, she said before but...uh... I think this calls for a "Flexibility is the key to air power"  ;D