I'm voting liberal and pittying americans

[Jarnhamar]

I tend not to post in the political forum (except for wiseass comments) because I know very little about the stuff.

I'm just ranting.

I felt sorry for a lot of Americans.  Half wanted bush in office. The other half wanted Kerry in.  People were crazy over it. Watching some of the footage of different things on TV i couldn't believe how emotional some people were over this. Then it slowly sunk in. Well it IS their country and their future.
I really felt sorry for half of the country who wanted Kerry in more than anything, only to loose.  That must be a shitty feeling. I'm not saying Kerry is better than bush, (i would have voted bush)  just that it seemed the country was really split down the center.
I bet they were thinking "What the hell is wrong with the other side of the country?"  How can a country really claim a certain government if fully half of the country doesn't want it?

Now I know how they feel.

What the hell is wrong with half of our country?
I don't know the In's and outs of politics. If i waded into most of the topics here I would make a fool of myself. (hey maybe I'm doing it now?).  All I know from my simple stand point is that the liberals seem to be constantly falling in shit and not comming out smelling like roses but comming out smelling like shit and Canadian citizens are pretending it doesn't smell.  I can't begin to understand how some people view politics. It doesn't seem like a very honourable thing to me.

Sponsor ship scandal. Well shit isn't that pretty straight forward? The government lied to it's citizens, misled them and how i see it, took money directly out of their pockets. This would set off alarm bells to me. How do you try and swallow something like that?
"Well ya they did lie but..."  but what? Why would a citizen vote a party into/ keep a party in government who lied to them? Do people not understand how credible 'political promises' are? Ask the premier of Ontario.

Belinda stronach. She hates liberals she hates liberals,  Conservative voters vote her in to represent THEM and poof she crosses the floor and is now minister of human resources for the liberals. Doesn't that stink to anyone?  Does anyone buy that whole "I just realised the Conservatives are bad and liberals are good!" line?
Not as a liberal or Conservative, but as a Canadian i feel betrayed.  If she wanted to leave the Conservatives she should have quit and started at the bottom of the ladder. Let liberal voters vote her in and then let her earn a spot.

The article posted by George Wallace,
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30793.135.html
is a great example of the (lack of) honourable behavior by our politicans. Turing their backs on their parties for what seems to me like personal gain.

I want to say screw politics and refuse to vote.  Someone mentioned that here. Someone wisely pointed out that refusing to vote is exactly what the government wants. By doing so makes you unimportant.  That said I'm still at a loss of what to do. What would the liberals have to do for the majority of Canadians to say 'hey these guys might be bad for the future of Canada.'
I'm going to start voting liberal i think. The more and more I watch Canadian politics and see the 'depth' of some of these Canadian voters "I'm going to vote so and so because they aren't someone else" the more I think Canadians deserve liberals. I don't see myself wading into anything approaching politics because it's a lost cause (and I'm over my head. maybe thats my problem, i just don't understand how politics should work).
defeatist attitude i know.  I don't think my little life will be effected much by who's in the government. I live a pretty simple life.  I really feel sorry for the people who are effected by the government much more than me and are going to get a big wake up call one of these days.

Politics are like the army.
Your always going to see things that don't make any sense at all and leave you shaking your head. And in answer to us little guys shaking our head I can see the big guys in politics saying the exact same things the big guys in the army say..

Fuck em if they can't take a joke.

 

[Zipper]

Good rant.

I think one of the reasons why Canadians are not a shocked about the adscam as much as you would think, is because they believe that all political parties are cut from the same cloth as far as wasting money is concerned. As I've said many times already around here, the Liberal's have been caught with THEIR hands in the cookie jar this time. Should they be spanked? You bet. But every government on every level has wasted/diverted/stole/etc our money and either made off with it cleanly or been caught to some lesser degree. People are just so tired of it, that they just shrug their shoulders and carry on with life.

As for honour in politics. Well we all know how short our memories are and their even shorter in politics. As for Stonach "hating" liberals...      ...there is no such things as a black and white word in politics such as "hate". Its a grey world in which our representatives walk and words such as "hate" are merly a tool to stir up the masses. While I agree with you that she should have started from scratch or at least the back benches, anything in politics is possable. She is a Red Tory(PC) as are many of the eastern conservatives, and I think that her own head butting with Harper, as well as the direction in which he is leading the party is making many of those people uncomfortable. She just happens to be the first spin off. Lousy timing, yes. Lousy decision on her part to take the cabinet post, yes. But sooner or later it was going to happen.

I just thank God that we have some politicians like Chuck. I think he's going to be around a long time if cancer doesn't take him first. (sigh)

So don't turn your back on politics and not vote. Its the only voice you have outside of actively lobbying. Vote your heart and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Reccesoldier]

You should send that in to the National Post... All except the last line

I agree with you that the majority of Canadians don't trust politicians and that bothers me. This is the one group of people (the thin 2% that ever enter public life) who we should trust, or more rightly should be able to trust the most. We give them, of our own free will, the power, responsibility and duty of running the nation, and what do we get more often than not in exchange for it? Lies, scandals, naked ambition, name calling, bribery... the list goes on and on.

The other thing that bothers me about this is that when I get out I'm planning on making this "profession" my second career. I don't want people to think that way about me. I don't want to be viewed from the get-go as immoral, unprincipled or greedy. The events of the last few days have left me wondering at times do I really want to do this?

I'm actually studdying political science and I believe that from Aristotle to Marx, Mao Zedong to Margaret Thatcher each and every one of these people, regardless of the actual outcome of their policies had it in mind to do right by their countries, to make a difference, to improve the system.

Why then have they so often got it wrong that people would view politicians in the same light as Lawyers and used car salesmen.

Aristotle claimed that Politics was the noblest profession... What happened to that.

Is being principled and honourable and loyal enough? Can someone like that even get a foot in the door or would they just end up at the bottom of a tall smelly heap of crooks.

It boggles the mind.

:-[

 

[Dare]

You should send that in to the National Post... All except the last line

I agree with you that the majority of Canadians don't trust politicians and that bothers me. This is the one group of people (the thin 2% that ever enter public life) who we should trust, or more rightly should be able to trust the most. We give them, of our own free will, the power, responsibility and duty of running the nation, and what do we get more often than not in exchange for it? Lies, scandals, naked ambition, name calling, bribery... the list goes on and on.

"Trust" of a politician is directly tied to their PR. The quality that makes a politician is rarely one of being trust worthy. A person, to me, that I can trust the most is someone who has strong opinions and values. These types of people do not make it in mainstream politics. To alienate any section in society is to cut off potential voters. As we can see, the most popular people tend to be the least opinionated who present a clean, happy demeanor (for instance, George Bush vs. Laura Bush, even though their politics are similar their popularity are rivers apart). The moment you take a stand on any issue, in politics, you've taken a stand against some of your own constituants. Modern politics currently are world politics. The world is merged and for any Nation to take a definite stand would cause a reaction elsewhere. It, of course, would simply accelerate events that will take place either way, but there is a geographical and demographic equation that means every politician must "moderate" themselves to a particular signal or lose control. Which tends to be the worst fear of any one who aquires power.

The other thing that bothers me about this is that when I get out I'm planning on making this "profession" my second career. I don't want people to think that way about me. I don't want to be viewed from the get-go as immoral, unprincipled or greedy. The events of the last few days have left me wondering at times do I really want to do this?

Well, if you value your personal image over your principals and yearnings, perhaps it is best you second guess yourself. Every politician has the opportunity to prove people wrong, the problem is, 99.9% of them pass on that. There are politicians that don't make splashes that we'll never hear about. They do good and keep their word, but they don't make news. They rarely take a stand also, and ride the comfortable middleground of compromise.

I'm actually studdying political science and I believe that from Aristotle to Marx, Mao Zedong to Margaret Thatcher each and every one of these people, regardless of the actual outcome of their policies had it in mind to do right by their countries, to make a difference, to improve the system.

You sound like one studying political science..

"No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks."

Good men have been known to do bad things. The average Nazi soldier was a very principled person. The men we are fighting now are largely principled and moral as well. That does not make them right, nor wrong. Even the shadiest among us can be a force of good.

Why then have they so often got it wrong that people would view politicians in the same light as Lawyers and used car salesmen.
Aristotle claimed that Politics was the noblest profession... What happened to that.
Is being principled and honourable and loyal enough? Can someone like that even get a foot in the door or would they just end up at the bottom of a tall smelly heap of crooks.
It boggles the mind.
:-[

Politics is the profession of compromise and power. Both can prove to be combustable ingredients. Lawyers also have to compromise. They may know their client is guilty, but have to defend them. Used car salesmen, again, often have to hype their cars to get rid of them. It's all about compromising ones ethics and beliefs to achieve some sort of perceived greater good that all students of the Body Politik seem to strive for.

A noble politician is a rare thing. If you want to be one, study nobility before politics.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

I want to say screw politics and refuse to vote.  Someone mentioned that here. Someone wisely pointed out that refusing to vote is exactly what the government wants. By doing so makes you unimportant.  That said I'm still at a loss of what to do. What would the liberals have to do for the majority of Canadians to say 'hey these guys might be bad for the future of Canada.'
I'm going to start voting liberal i think. The more and more I watch Canadian politics and see the 'depth' of some of these Canadian voters "I'm going to vote so and so because they aren't someone else" the more I think Canadians deserve liberals.

Probably one of the more profound concepts discussed in the political Forums...

Good on you Ghost778, I fully agree with what you're saying.