India (Superthread)

[HavokFour]

The British passenger that survived reported hearing a 'big bang' just before the crash, apparently ...

It might have been the RAT automatically deploying, gravity cannot be relied upon when moving at high speed during flight so they are spring loaded. Think garage door spring but even stronger, the speed at which they get popped out is enough to kill if you get in the way.

Not the same plane model, but the function is pretty much identical for most commercial aircraft. Basically something has to go horrifically wrong, and clearly something did in the less than 60 seconds the plane was in the air.

Condition 3 seems to mesh with what little information we have so far (around 2:45). Both engines out and low pressure in central hydraulics.

That being said with how incredibly slim of a chance for such an event to even occur...

[TINFOIL]
With this plane being in Germany a week ago, what are the chances this might be Russian sabotage?.

Russia plotted terror attacks on airlines around the world, Poland’s Tusk says

Polish PM makes bombshell accusation against Moscow.

www.politico.eu

[/TINFOIL]

 

[Good2Golf]

Looking for confirmation of the RAT deployed, but don’t see it.

It looks very much like 0° flaps from the aft view, but the fwd (leading edge) slats, think of them at ‘flaps’ in the front of the wing, have an ‘auto-gap’ function that deploys them (if below 240 knots airspeed indicated), even if the flaps proper (the rear trailing edge) surfaces are not (or or partially) extended. Some post-crash videos indicate the (forward) slats deployed, which could have occurred even if the flaps were not fully set. My Boeing time is on flappy-wings, not fixed-wing, so my take may be limited to more general, vice type (787) specific insight.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Looking for confirmation of the RAT deployed, but don’t see it.

It looks very much like 0° flaps from the aft view, but the fwd (leading edge) slats, think of them at ‘flaps’ in the front of the wing, have an ‘auto-gap’ function that deploys them (if below 240 knots airspeed indicated), even if the flaps proper (the rear trailing edge) surfaces are not (or or partially) extended. Some post-crash videos indicate the (forward) slats deployed, which could have occurred even if the flaps were not fully set. My Boeing time is on flappy-wings, not fixed-wing, so my take may be limited to more general, vice type (787) specific insight.

One of the videos actually shows the RAT deployed.

 

[KevinB]

One of the videos actually shows the RAT deployed.

I blew them up on my iMac and can't see it.

I'm still not sure why the flaps where at 0 for Take Off -- I've been in a cockpit a few times during take off and that always seems to be checklist stuff prior to starting the take off roll.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I blew them up on my iMac and can't see it.

I'm still not sure why the flaps where at 0 for Take Off -- I've been in a cockpit a few times during take off and that always seems to be checklist stuff prior to starting the take off roll.

Interesting theory here...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1933202564750684270

 

[brihard]

They should have the flight data and cockpit voice recorders pretty quickly. I doubt this will end up being much of a mystery.

 

[daftandbarmy]

They should have the flight data and cockpit voice recorders pretty quickly. I doubt this will end up being much of a mystery.

They released some cockpit recordings...


The pilot of the Air India crash frantically warned the plane was 'losing power' just moments before it crashed into a building, killing at least 260 people.

The London-bound Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner plunged into the busy suburb just seconds after taking off from Ahmedabad Airport on Thursday morning, claiming the lives of all but one passenger.

Captain Sumeet Sabharwal, who had 8,200 hours of flying experience, desperately cried 'Mayday…no thrust, losing power, unable to lift' before the aircraft went down and hit a residential property.

Revealed: Air India pilot's frantic mayday call seconds before crash

The London-bound Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner plunged into the busy suburb just seconds after taking off from Ahmedabad Airport on Thursday morning, claiming the lives of all but one passenger.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I blew them up on my iMac and can't see it.

I'm still not sure why the flaps where at 0 for Take Off -- I've been in a cockpit a few times during take off and that always seems to be checklist stuff prior to starting the take off roll.

On youtube, look at vasaviation. Around 10:28, you can see a black dot just below the fuselage. I think that is the RAT.

 

[Good2Golf]

For reference to the flaps. Takeoff setting on a 787-8 can be as ‘Flaps 1’ which is mostly leading edge slats and 1° flap. Admittedly that is pretty hard to see from behind, as would Flaps 5 as well. Maximum takeoff setting is Flaps 20, which would be very evident from an aft view. Saw the RAT on the video, thanks SKT. Dual power loss is a horrible situation at that phase of flight.

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View this content on Instagram

 

[KevinB]

Interesting theory here...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1933202564750684270

Except when one looks at the takeoff roll the flaps do not appear to be positioned for takeoff at any point.

Other 787 pilots have suggested with the temperature and pressure that flaps 15-20 would be the appropriate range for take off.

On youtube, look at vasaviation. Around 10:28, you can see a black dot just below the fuselage. I think that is the RAT.

He seemed earlier in the video to think they are speed brakes - which adds another layer of WTF, but when he mentioned the RAT the sound does sound similar to the RAT’s in other videos.

I’ve still not gotten to hear a good reason for the pulling up in a stall aspect. Several pilots have commented on that.

 

[Good2Golf]

Interesting video with the entire sequence from brakes release to crash. At about :29-:30 is where I see what looks like settling below the climb out path. The fuselage climb attitude doesn’t change much, so it appears more like settling vice all out stall, where the nose would drop suddenly. Definitely keen to see the flight data recorder on this.

1M views · 7.5K reactions | Video from airport's CCTV shows full take off & subsequent crash of Air India's Flight 171 at Ahmedabad Airport. | By Pakistan | Facebook

Video from airport's CCTV shows full take off & subsequent crash of Air India's Flight 171 at Ahmedabad Airport.

www.facebook.com

 

[Good2Golf]

Insight on the *787’s RAT from one of my fave air incident commentators, blancolirio (Juan Browne, retired USAF and current AA 777 first officer)

The aircraft had to be in bad shape if the RAT deployed pretty much after liftoff.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Insight on the 786’s RAT from one of my fave air incident commentators, blancolirio (Juan Browne, retired USAF and current AA 777 first officer)

The aircraft had to be in bad shape if the RAT deployed pretty much after liftoff.

There was another video I saw claiming to be from the interior of the incident aircraft the week prior. Literally nothing electrical worked.

 

[HavokFour]

There's been an update on the crash. Still unclear if it was intentional or accidental.

Engine fuel supply was cut just before Air India jet crash, preliminary report says

“In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff. The other pilot responded that he did not do so,” the report reads.

Shortly after, the switches were reversed back to where they should have been, and the engines were in the process of powering back up when the crash happened.

 

[Good2Golf]

The preliminary report from the Indian Air Accident Investigation Board . Pages 13/14 of interest. Both fuel cut-off switches moved to off, then both on seconds later. Both engines commenced automated restart sequences, #1 winding up but never made power, #2 harder time starting up. Impact seconds after fuel cut-off switches returned to ON.

Suspect that the board will be attempting to determine from the cockpit recording who said “why did you cut off?” as this would imply that the other was the one who moved the switches to cut-off.

https://i2.res.24o.it/pdf2010/Editrice/ILSOLE24ORE/ILSOLE24ORE/Online/_Oggetti_Embedded/Documenti/2025/07/12/Preliminary%20Report%20VT.pdf

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The preliminary report from the Indian Air Accident Investigation Board . Pages 13/14 of interest. Both fuel cut-off switches moved to off, then both on seconds later. Both engines commenced automated restart sequences, #1 winding up but never made power, #2 harder time starting up. Impact seconds after fuel cut-off switches returned to ON.

Suspect that the board will be attempting to determine from the cockpit recording who said “why did you cut off?” as this would imply that the other was the one who moved the switches to cut-off.

It had to be pilot error. There is no other reasonable explanation. Fuel cutoff switches cannot move on their own.

It will be interesting to see both the fatigue risk profile of the pilots before this flight and their toxicology reports. That is a pretty big “oops”.

 

[Good2Golf]

It had to be pilot error. There is no other reasonable explanation. Fuel cutoff switches cannot move on their own.

Whether pilot or copilot (TBD), it was no doubt a deliberate act, especially to do it to both engines. There Isn’t a single platform I’ve flown where those cut-off switches weren’t about the hardest switch to lift up, toggle, and lower. They don’t move by accident.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Whether pilot or copilot (TBD), it was no doubt a deliberate act, especially to do it to both engines. There Isn’t a single platform I’ve flown where those cut-off switches weren’t about the hardest switch to lift up, toggle, and lower. They don’t move by accident.

That's what alot of these comments suggest. I'm going with 'terrorism', but I've always been a cheerful soul

https://twitter.com/x/status/1943904636848812217

 

[brihard]

That's what alot of these comments suggest. I'm going with 'terrorism', but I've always been a cheerful soul

https://twitter.com/x/status/1943904636848812217

I’d lean more towards suicide than terrorism. If it were the latter we’d likely have learned the ideological motive very quickly.

 

[dapaterson]

Whether pilot or copilot (TBD), it was no doubt a deliberate act, especially to do it to both engines. There Isn’t a single platform I’ve flown where those cut-off switches weren’t about the hardest switch to lift up, toggle, and lower. They don’t move by accident.

Self loading cargo question: is there one central set of switches, or one set per seat?

Because it could be "guy who cut the switches asks the other guy why he did it to leave a false record on the recorder".