India (Superthread)

[SeaKingTacco]

On every aircraft that I have been on, there is only one set of fuel shutoff switches. They are guarded switches and require a deliberate act to actuate.

 

[brihard]

Is there any plausible way this was just a colossal oops?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Is there any plausible way this was just a colossal oops?

I suppose. Training standards may be “iffy” in that part of the world. The dude who actuated the fuel shutoffs, may actually have thought he was doing something else. We may never know for certain.

 

[dapaterson]

Photo of the cutoffs (directly below the throttles) i in this article:

Circumstances of fuel-switch movement become central to Air India 787 crash inquiry

While the Air India Boeing 787-8 crash inquiry has found that fuel control cut-off switches were activated almost as soon as the aircraft lifted off, the circumstances of the switches' movement remain unexplained. Preliminary findings from India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau simply...

www.flightglobal.com

 

[lenaitch]

Seeing as the switches have a 'stop-lock' safety (i.e. lift and re-position), it makes sense that it would have to have been a deliberate act since each switch must be manually held but probably a thumb and one finger to move. It is being reported that each switch went into cut-off about one second apart so it would seem a very quick and deliberate act.

The only unanswered question is whether the flight control computer has the ability to activate these switch. As we saw with the 737 Max series of incidents, an unintended response to inputs.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Seeing as the switches have a 'stop-lock' safety (i.e. lift and re-position), it makes sense that it would have to have been a deliberate act since each switch must be manually held but probably a thumb and one finger to move. It is being reported that each switch went into cut-off about one second apart so it would seem a very quick and deliberate act.

The only unanswered question is whether the flight control computer has the ability to activate these switch. As we saw with the 737 Max series of incidents, an unintended response to inputs.

It is guess work, but it is probably a mechanical system for a very good reason.

If, hypothetically, it was a computer error, how likely is it that they would have actuated at just about the same speed it takes a human to manually flip two swtiches?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I look in my crystal ball and I see some deep, deep investigation into the lives of those two Air India pilots in the near future.

 

[Good2Golf]

Self loading cargo question: is there one central set of switches, or one set per seat?

Because it could be "guy who cut the switches asks the other guy why he did it to leave a false record on the recorder".

Like SKT noted, just one set. In the center console between the two pilots, and equally accessible.

Is there any plausible way this was just a colossal oops?

I don’t think so. I and a few folks here know of real-life examples, in particular one I know of where during an engine failure checklist response, the non-flying pilot (PM - pilot monitoring) mistakenly cut-off fuel to the good engine…at low level…like nap-of-the-earth low…15-20’ above the ground. Fortunately the pilot flying (PF) had a metric schiße-ton of experience and autorotated the helicopter to a smooth and successful autorotation. Apparently the troops on board thought it was the planned tactical disembarkation and they all split the scene after the helo came to a stop. Fixed-wing aircraft don’t have as many options as these guys did, sadly.

The only unanswered question is whether the flight control computer has the ability to activate these switch. As we saw with the 737 Max series of incidents, an unintended response to inputs.

No. This is a hard-wired circuit from the cockpit to each engine’s fuel control unit. It’s know as a discrete (analogue, energized or not) line…as opposed to being converted from an analogue signal into a digital signal and interleaved into a control bus with a bunch of other signals. I don’t know about Airbus, but having worked with their control systems engineers I’m certain that Boeing runs discrete control lines to all its aircraft’s engine controls, fixed-wing platforms or CH-47/AH-64/AH/MH-6.

 

[RangerRay]

What a shock. Trump destroying a burgeoning strategic relationship to counter Beijing and pushing Delhi into the arms of Beijing and Moscow because of his bruised ego. All because Mohdi wouldn’t lie for him.

The US Disaster With India Has Reached The Grovelling Stage

And It Has NOTHING To Do With Helping Ukraine

phillipspobrien.substack.com

Well that did not take long. It has only been a five days since the US got all tough on India and tried to humiliate the Indians into bowing to US greatness. Then, the Trump Administration imposed what were clearly punitive tariffs on India, expecting, it seems, the Indians to come grovelling to Trump and ask what they needed to do to make things better.


And guess what? It is already the US which is grovelling as the Indians treat the move by the Trump Administration with the disdain that it deserves.

What the Trump Administration was doing in singling out India for punitive tariffs was not just self-destructive, it was also profoundly illogical. The publicly stated idea that the move was because India was buying lots of Russian oil was, ipso facto, ridiculous. China buys even more Russian oil than India and Turkey buys almost as much—and Trump is desperately trying to keep both of these states onboard. And, as I warned in that piece, the move would more than likely help Putin by pushing India closer to Russia and China—which is exactly what happened.

So, if the move had nothing to do with helping Ukraine, it might be asked why it happened? Well, what has emerged in the last few days is that the reason for the blow-up was even more venal than most people could have predicted.

Trump was destroying one of the most important strategic relationships the US has because the Indians refused to lie on his behalf and feed his monstrous ego. Trump wanted the Indians to state that he was responsible for bringing peace between India and Pakistan (a laughable claim). And the Indian government, representing a proud state with a history of not bowing to western pressure, not surprisingly refused.

 

[brihard]

What a shock. Trump destroying a burgeoning strategic relationship to counter Beijing and pushing Delhi into the arms of Beijing and Moscow because of his bruised ego. All because Mohdi wouldn’t lie for him.

The US Disaster With India Has Reached The Grovelling Stage

And It Has NOTHING To Do With Helping Ukraine

phillipspobrien.substack.com

India, Russia, and China are a combined three billion people with a tremendous base of natural resources and human capital. Pushing them into bed together with hamfisted short term transactional foreign policy is idiotic.

“American exceptionalism” isn’t a God-given inevitability. It’s the happy confluence of a lot of economic, diplomatic, and other strategic choices made by a lot of smart American leaders over a century. Change those choices and you change the strategic outcomes.

 

[dapaterson]

The world is seeing what happens when a man who couldn't make money running a casino gets put in charge.

 

[FJAG]

The world is seeing what happens when a man who couldn't make money running a casino gets put in charge.

I think that neither he nor anyone in his administration has a hot clue of what is going on in the rest of the world and what little they are aware of they don't give a shit about.

Honestly, if you had a malignant plan to destroy the US's power and influence in the world you couldn't do better than this group of bungling morons.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Ah! C'mon FJAG. One of them has a clue: The Secretary of State. Last cabinet meeting you could see it when he brought up to the president the important issue of Saturday weddings during college football season interfering with watching the games.

 

[JLB50]

India, Russia, and China are a combined three billion people with a tremendous base of natural resources and human capital. Pushing them into bed together with hamfisted short term transactional foreign policy is idiotic.

“American exceptionalism” isn’t a God-given inevitability. It’s the happy confluence of a lot of economic, diplomatic, and other strategic choices made by a lot of smart American leaders over a century. Change those choices and you change the strategic outcomes.

This is undoubtedly the most colossal foreign policy blunder in American history…one that will most likely resonate for many years to come. Things will not end well for the U.S. and will most likely lead to its demise as a nation of influence.

 

[daftandbarmy]

This is undoubtedly the most colossal foreign policy blunder in American history…(so far) one that will most likely resonate for many years to come. Things will not end well for the U.S. and will most likely lead to its demise as a nation of influence.

FTFY

 

[JLB50]

FTFY

Important history is being made before our very eyes.

 

[OldSolduer]

Try to explain to some folks that Sikhs and Muslims are two different religions.

Sikhs - the bad ones - only kill other Indians. I work with a number of Sikhs and their take on things is remarkably similar to ours.

Muslims - the bad ones - target every other nation on earth.

 

[YZT580]

This is undoubtedly the most colossal foreign policy blunder in American history…one that will most likely resonate for many years to come. Things will not end well for the U.S. and will most likely lead to its demise as a nation of influence.

I don't know, it isn't his only foreign blunder and it is recoverable. I would rate his attitude towards NATO right up there as well. Most of Europe was content to buy American. Sure they each had their own niche product but the U.S. dominated a lot of markets. His actions, fortunately, have stirred up governments to start investing in their own countries and looking elsewhere for products. A lot of business that America had a lock on is going to go elsewhere and that will cause big time hurt on Wall Street.

 

[RangerRay]

I think that neither he nor anyone in his administration has a hot clue of what is going on in the rest of the world and what little they are aware of they don't give a shit about.

Honestly, if you had a malignant plan to destroy the US's power and influence in the world you couldn't do better than this group of bungling morons.

Almost like the actions of what a POTUS who was a Russian and/or Chinese asset might do…

 

[Colin Parkinson]

India, Russia, and China are a combined three billion people with a tremendous base of natural resources and human capital. Pushing them into bed together with hamfisted short term transactional foreign policy is idiotic.

“American exceptionalism” isn’t a God-given inevitability. It’s the happy confluence of a lot of economic, diplomatic, and other strategic choices made by a lot of smart American leaders over a century. Change those choices and you change the strategic outcomes.

China and India will never be in bed with each other. India and Russia perhaps. India likes to play the middle and is starting to enjoy "Regional power" status, not so long ago they sent their navy to deal with pirates and interference to their shipping. Buying cheap Russian oil and either using or reselling it is a "India first policy", very similar to the current US policy. As for China, they will trade and sell to them, but will never be close and are always clashing on the LOC.