Indirect Fires Modernization Project - C3/M777 Replacement

[Kirkhill]

Here's a question:

Why pair an Autonomous Multi-Domain Launcher with a Crewed HIMARs? Why not have a separate Command Vehicle that can operate remotely from the launchers with a lower profile? It can do the recce work as well.

Likewise for the RCH/AGM turrets. Remove the crews from the gun vehicles entirely. Have the guns play follow the leader with the Section Commander's vehicle.

...

Something else I just noticed

The AMDL version of the HIMARS is supposed to carry two pods of missiles like the MLRS, instead of the single pod of the HIMARS

Our First Look At The Army's Unmanned HIMARS Launcher Truck Firing

The Army sees the the Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher (AML) as an important way to increase firepower, but not personnel demands.

www.twz.com

Exclusive: US Tests Autonomous Multi-Domain Rocket Launcher with Direct Support Fire Technology

Exclusive: US Tests Autonomous Multi-Domain Rocket Launcher with Direct Support Fire Technology

armyrecognition.com

 

[suffolkowner]

Here's a question:

Why pair an Autonomous Multi-Domain Launcher with a Crewed HIMARs? Why not have a separate Command Vehicle that can operate remotely from the launchers with a lower profile? It can do the recce work as well.

Likewise for the RCH/AGM turrets. Remove the crews from the gun vehicles entirely. Have the guns play follow the leader with the Section Commander's vehicle.

...

Something else I just noticed

The AML version of the HIMARS is supposed to carry two pods of missiles like the MLRS, instead of the single pod of the HIMARS

View attachment 93349

Our First Look At The Army's Unmanned HIMARS Launcher Truck Firing

The Army sees the the Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher (AML) as an important way to increase firepower, but not personnel demands.

www.twz.com

C130 movable with the two pods?

 

[Kirkhill]

C130 movable with the two pods?

Seems to be the case. Eliminate the weight of the armoured crew cab?

 

[Furniture]

Here's a question:

Why pair an Autonomous Multi-Domain Launcher with a Crewed HIMARs? Why not have a separate Command Vehicle that can operate remotely from the launchers with a lower profile? It can do the recce work as well.

Likewise for the RCH/AGM turrets. Remove the crews from the gun vehicles entirely. Have the guns play follow the leader with the Section Commander's vehicle.

...

Something else I just noticed

The AMDL version of the HIMARS is supposed to carry two pods of missiles like the MLRS, instead of the single pod of the HIMARS

View attachment 93349View attachment 93350

Our First Look At The Army's Unmanned HIMARS Launcher Truck Firing

The Army sees the the Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher (AML) as an important way to increase firepower, but not personnel demands.

www.twz.com

Exclusive: US Tests Autonomous Multi-Domain Rocket Launcher with Direct Support Fire Technology

Exclusive: US Tests Autonomous Multi-Domain Rocket Launcher with Direct Support Fire Technology

armyrecognition.com

The simple answer is vehicles break, and get stuck... Three dudes in a CP JTLV aren't going to be enough to get a convoy of autonomous vehicles unstuck.

Complex terrain needs human drivers, and lots of human power to fix things when things go wrong.

 

[Kirkhill]

The simple answer is vehicles break, and get stuck... Three dudes in a CP JTLV aren't going to be enough to get a convoy of autonomous vehicles unstuck.

Complex terrain needs human drivers, and lots of human power to fix things when things go wrong.

And thus the MRT and Ammo trucks - if the mission requires it. The mission described in the ConOps video doesn't appear to leave much time to fix problems. I would be surprised if the trucks got off the runway before they launched, in that scenario. If they breakdown on the runway and can't get back into the aircraft then blow them up and take off.

 

[Kirkhill]

Further to ...




Converting HIMARs into GRAD with US made 120mm rockets.

Smaller Rockets To Provide Key Artillery Firepower Boost Sought By Army

A new five-inch (127mm) artillery rocket Lockheed Martin is developing for the U.S. Army primarily as a low-cost training round could evolve into an operational munition. The service already wants to increase the magazine depth of its existing Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) and High...

www.yahoo.com

The Army has said in the past that it is actively looking at new munition pods for the MLRS and HIMARS launchers that can each hold up to 30 rockets with maximum ranges between approximately 18 and 25 miles (30 and 40 kilometers). Last month, it was announced that the service had awarded a contract to Anduril for 4.75-inch (120mm) solid rocket motors that is tied, at least in part, to that work.

Add on the RGK-122

RGK 122 Precision Guidance Kit

The RGK 122 precision guidance kit designed to achieve first-shot hit capability, increased combat effectiveness, and reduced collateral damage.

www.elbitsystems.com

The rocket version of the M1156 Precision Guidance Kit for the 155mm.

Modernizing the Precision Guidance Kit | Northrop Grumman

[...]Read More...

www.northropgrumman.com

 

[KevinB]

Further to ...

View attachment 93352


Converting HIMARs into GRAD with US made 120mm rockets.

Smaller Rockets To Provide Key Artillery Firepower Boost Sought By Army

A new five-inch (127mm) artillery rocket Lockheed Martin is developing for the U.S. Army primarily as a low-cost training round could evolve into an operational munition. The service already wants to increase the magazine depth of its existing Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) and High...

www.yahoo.com

Add on the RGK-122

RGK 122 Precision Guidance Kit

The RGK 122 precision guidance kit designed to achieve first-shot hit capability, increased combat effectiveness, and reduced collateral damage.

www.elbitsystems.com

The rocket version of the M1156 Precision Guidance Kit for the 155mm.

Modernizing the Precision Guidance Kit | Northrop Grumman

[...]Read More...

www.northropgrumman.com

You do not want your GS batteries to need to be that close.

You would be putting HVT’s into enemy tube firing range, which is criminally stupid.

 

[Furniture]

And thus the MRT and Ammo trucks - if the mission requires it. The mission described in the ConOps video doesn't appear to leave much time to fix problems. I would be surprised if the trucks got off the runway before they launched, in that scenario. If they breakdown on the runway and can't get back into the aircraft then blow them up and take off.

Again, I'm not against automation. I'm just against automation where it doesn't belong.

In reality, the C-130 and it's crew is far more valuable than any arty platform. So if it's safe enough to put a C-130 there, it's safe enough to put an arty crew in to shoot the guns/tubes.

How much more does an "autonomous" launcher cost than a crewed launcher?

 

[Kirkhill]

Again, I'm not against automation. I'm just against automation where it doesn't belong.

In reality, the C-130 and it's crew is far more valuable than any arty platform. So if it's safe enough to put a C-130 there, it's safe enough to put an arty crew in to shoot the guns/tubes.

How much more does an "autonomous" launcher cost than a crewed launcher?

Not sure on the cost but it is likely the same PATH kit Rheinmetall is using on everything from Argo and Sherpa Missionmasters, to Wiesels, Man trucks, mining gear and airport luggage tractors.

They don't seem bothered about what vehicle they attach the kit to.

 

[Kirkhill]

Path A-kit – Turn any vehicle into an autonomous powerhouse

The Rheinmetall PATH autonomous kit (A-kit) is a proprietary robotic control software suite which integrates autonomous capabilities into existing vehicle fleets.

www.rheinmetall.com

I am inclined to think that if your vehicle has power steering, automatic transmission, power brakes, cruise control, collision avoidance radar, a cell phone and a GPS system there isn't a lot left to buy. The app for the smartphone is probably all you need to add. Maybe a small PLC.

 

[Kirkhill]

And it works in GPS denied environments, like mines.

 

[KevinB]

Path A-kit – Turn any vehicle into an autonomous powerhouse

The Rheinmetall PATH autonomous kit (A-kit) is a proprietary robotic control software suite which integrates autonomous capabilities into existing vehicle fleets.

www.rheinmetall.com

I am inclined to think that if your vehicle has power steering, automatic transmission, power brakes, cruise control, collision avoidance radar, a cell phone and a GPS system there isn't a lot left to buy. The app for the smartphone is probably all you need to add. Maybe a small PLC.

I don’t think you understand the requirements for autonomous vehicle support.

 

[Kirkhill]

I don’t think you understand the requirements for autonomous vehicle support.

I have spent a lifetime automating processes. The process of automation continues. In the meantime people have been exploiting, and profiting from, the advantages automation offers even as they continue tp seek better solutions.

People try new things and learn to accommodate their new limitations.

 

[PuckChaser]

And considering autonomous vehicles are nowhere on the RFP, maybe we can go back on topic until a company throws a hail mary and adds them to their bid?

 

[Kirkhill]

And considering autonomous vehicles are nowhere on the RFP, maybe we can go back on topic until a company throws a hail mary and adds them to their bid?

I think, if you end up buying MOTS from the US, you are likely to find an autonomous operations component on board.

Army artillery needs more range, mobility and autonomy, study finds

The Army's conventional fires study is leading the service to focus on munitions range and capacity as well as more mobile and autonomous systems.

www.defensenews.com

 

[PuckChaser]

Needs more does not equal exists right now. Autonomous vehicles are no where close to MOTS and might not even be ready for whatever project is the replacement for what we buy for IFM.

 

[KevinB]

I have spent a lifetime automating processes. The process of automation continues.

I think you are confusing automation from autonomous. Reducing human demands are generally a good thing, but until SkyNet kills is all off, we still have demands only a human can fill.

In the meantime people have been exploiting, and profiting from, the advantages automation offers even as they continue tp seek better solutions.

I’d suggest none of those have a 24/7 combat environment requirement.

People try new things and learn to accommodate their new limitations.

I’m so lost on where you think this links to the thread?

 

[Kirkhill]

I think you are confusing automation from autonomous. Reducing human demands are generally a good thing, but until SkyNet kills is all off, we still have demands only a human can fill.


I’d suggest none of those have a 24/7 combat environment requirement.


I’m so lost on where you think this links to the thread?

The fewer gunners the more guns and the more missiles.

As to the 24/7 issue - the less the gunners and their supporters have to do the more effective they can be with the numbers available.

Chinese



Western (Icelandic)



...

Western solution requires a lot fewer bodies, equals a lot fewer gunners, a lot fewer people to feed, a lot fewer targets, a lot fewer dead gunners and a lot fewer replacements to train.

I think you see autonomy as a goal. I see autonomy as a process that proceeds from the earliest clockwork devices. I see it as just the current faddish term for automation. And more automation has been the trend.

If I am wrong on the autonomy trend then a lot of people, in uniform and out, share my delusion and are investing heavily in increasing autonomy.

 

[Kirkhill]

Further to ...

“The AML team leveraged three major Army S&T investments,

the Palletized Field Artillery Launcher, (PFAL)
Autonomous Transport Vehicle System and
Secure Tactical Advanced Mobile Power

to rapidly and economically develop the AML prototype,” Hunter said.

Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher meets another program milestone

REDSTONE ARSENAL, Ala. — Mission success. Another pivotal stride was made by the Autonomous Multi-domain Launcher as the combined team of the U.S. Army...

www.army.mil

What is the Palletized Field Artillery Launcher?

https://www.stratvocate.com/files/2021/RDTE_BA_5A_FY_2021_R_Army-p487/RDTE_BA_5A_FY_2021_R_Army.html

PFAL puts the MRLS system on to the same philosophical basis as these



Remote Controlled Weapons Systems that can be managed like this



The systems can be ground mounted, ship mounted or truck mounted. The truck can be any truck. It can be manned. It can be automated (autonomous). In a defence situation the autonomous truck would make the system harder to defeat and the unmanned vehicle could manoeuvre to different firing positions or return to a hardened shelter for reloading and repair.

Other palletized systems include the RCH-155.



The AGM in a static emplacement acting as CRAM system. Photo: KMW

All of those remote controlled pallets can be mounted on vehicles - of any and all sorts. Select the right vehicle and you can fire from the vehicle, possibly even fire on the move.

Boxer RCH 155 demonstrates MRSI and fire-on-the-move capabilities – Below The Turret Ring

below-the-turret-ring.com

....

Flash back to these parks



How many gunners on each launcher?