Indirect Fires Modernization Project - C3/M777 Replacement

[FJAG]

Bumped with MSM's version out yesterday ....

Howitzers to fall silent when avalanche control deal in Rogers Pass ends in 2027

ROGERS PASS — The military has decided to end its role in avalanche control along a major British Columbia transportation route that has seen it fire artillery shells to set off slides in Rogers Pass for more than 60 years.

www.sootoday.com

MLAs call on federal government to ensure ongoing avalanche control in Rogers Pass - Creston Valley Advance

‘The economic importance of this corridor cannot be understated…’

crestonvalleyadvance.ca

... and this from the Team Blue info-machine

Protect Rogers Pass - Conservative Party of Canada

Ottawa, ON – Today, Dane Lloyd, Conservative Shadow Minister for Emergency Preparedness and Community Resilience and Mel Arnold, Associate Shadow Minister for Fisheries, released the following statement calling on the Liberal government to ensure the continued safety of Rogers Pass in British...

www.conservative.ca

I'm not so sure this is a government position as much as a CAF one generated by the down-the-road retiring of the 105mm C3 as a gun capable of doing live fire.

This reminds me of a sign-off by the deputy commander of the army on a staff paper around 2010 or so that basically retired the 105mm calibre systems from the army's inventory. It was reversed by the commander within a very short period of time.

We're once again looking at retiring the 105mm's live fire capability (not it's saluting role) from the army's inventory as SPs and HIMARS and STA and UAVs/LMs come on line. This is simply staff planning to ensure that some small residual requirement doesn't clog up the system.

My guess is that neither the minister nor his staff were apprised of this action before it happened or, if notified, were not properly briefed on the complexity of the problem being created for Parks Canada.

 

[Kirkhill]

72 RCH155s ordered with deliveries starting in 18 to 24 months.

All guns blazing: the UK sets up $1.35 billion RCH 155 artillery order - Breaking Defense

The order has long been held up by delay to the Defence Investment Plan, which is expected to outline British equipment priorities over the next ten years.

breakingdefense.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Mavik - battery powered drone
Shahed - two-sroke powered drone
Tomahawk - jet powered drone
PrSM - rocket powered drone
Excalibur - gun powered drone
Small Diameter Bomb - gravity powered drone.

All sustain flight, navigate their way to the target and discriminate between targets - on their own.

And some can act as transports, motherships for the others.

 

[Kirkhill]

Pentagon to purchase 10,000 Low Cost Containerized Missiles in three years starting next year.

Pentagon reaches agreements with defense firms on containerized missiles

The Pentagon is announcing framework agreements with Anduril, CoAspire, Leidos and Zone 5 to acquire over 10,000 containerized missiles.

www.militarytimes.com

 

[Underway]

So on the C3 howitzers are dead front... heres the proposed reorg of ARes units that will be learning the Reg F equipment. Courtesy True North Strategic Review (Noah).

Q16. I read in the CBC (re: the end of Op Palaci) that the Army is retiring the C3 Howitzer; any word on what will replace it? Or what PRes Arty will evolve to?

Replace? Lol, we're out of the 105 game. The M777 and the LG1 will be shipped to Quebec and kept in long-term storage just in case they're ever needed.

The ARes won't be getting their own dedicated platforms. The RCA is moving to a unified concept of equipment. The ARes will train on what the RegF uses.

Depending on the specific unit, they will be taking on specialized capabilities like the new 155mm Self-Propelled Howitzer, Long-Range HIMARS, or specific capabilities like VSHORAD, UAS Employment, or Target Acquisition.

For Artillery itself, a lot is going to be reliant on things like simulators, Augmented Reality, and other emerging technologies in place of having actual systems to train on. They lose out on SHORAD though. I think it's public, so if you're curious, here's the proposed list of where each ARes is being tied to.

 

[daftandbarmy]

So on the C3 howitzers are dead front... heres the proposed reorg of ARes units that will be learning the Reg F equipment. Courtesy True North Strategic Review (Noah).



View attachment 100326

I can see it now:

LG1s and M777s removed from service.

Mortars go back to the Infantry.

10 year gap in providing new weapons and equipment.

In the meantime, all artillery reassigned to airfield D&S, and/or staffing the new XX HQs

 

[FJAG]

So on the C3 howitzers are dead front... heres the proposed reorg of ARes units that will be learning the Reg F equipment. Courtesy True North Strategic Review (Noah).

Just a point. The chart Noah posted is right out of Aimpoint 1 which was issued by the artillery last month. It's the current plan.

Note that C3s will be retained for ceremonial purposes. Aimpoint itself does not specifically talk about the LG-1 going into long term storage but the "the remainder of the 105mm fleet and the M777 will be considered for long-term preservation to provide surge capacity." So its a may or may not thing and might include spare C3s as well.

I can see it now:

LG1s and M777s removed from service.

Mortars go back to the Infantry.

10 year gap in providing new weapons and equipment.

In the meantime, all artillery reassigned to airfield D&S, and/or staffing the new XX HQs

That ain't happening. The equipment is too high on the priorities list and will appear relatively quickly (as far as anything appears quickly these days) The rogue element here is how you effect interest with simulators and key equipment located far away from ARes units. We created ARes TA troops with Force 2013 but never made the equipment available so the concept died a quick death. We did fairly well in making M777 training available. CP and FOO work will depend on new doctrine and the LM issue.

There are a lot of moving parts here. And we all know what moving parts can do. Last but not least, Aimpoint 1 is just that; a direction and not a guaranteed end state. A lot depends on new RegF PYs and the actual amounts of equipment.

 

[Underway]

Just a point. The chart Noah posted is right out of Aimpoint 1 which was issued by the artillery last month. It's the current plan.

Note that C3s will be retained for ceremonial purposes. Aimpoint itself does not specifically talk about the LG-1 going into long term storage but the "the remainder of the 105mm fleet and the M777 will be considered for long-term preservation to provide surge capacity." So its a may or may not thing and might include spare C3s as well.



That ain't happening. The equipment is too high on the priorities list and will appear relatively quickly (as far as anything appears quickly these days) The rogue element here is how you effect interest with simulators and key equipment located far away from ARes units. We created ARes TA troops with Force 2013 but never made the equipment available so the concept died a quick death. We did fairly well in making M777 training available. CP and FOO work will depend on new doctrine and the LM issue.

There are a lot of moving parts here. And we all know what moving parts can do. Last but not least, Aimpoint 1 is just that; a direction and not a guaranteed end state. A lot depends on new RegF PYs and the actual amounts of equipment.

Thanks for the extra info. I tried to just provide the information without to much editorializing. Figured it would be important to situate the discussion.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Just a point. The chart Noah posted is right out of Aimpoint 1 which was issued by the artillery last month. It's the current plan.

Note that C3s will be retained for ceremonial purposes. Aimpoint itself does not specifically talk about the LG-1 going into long term storage but the "the remainder of the 105mm fleet and the M777 will be considered for long-term preservation to provide surge capacity." So its a may or may not thing and might include spare C3s as well.



That ain't happening. The equipment is too high on the priorities list and will appear relatively quickly (as far as anything appears quickly these days) The rogue element here is how you effect interest with simulators and key equipment located far away from ARes units. We created ARes TA troops with Force 2013 but never made the equipment available so the concept died a quick death. We did fairly well in making M777 training available. CP and FOO work will depend on new doctrine and the LM issue.

There are a lot of moving parts here. And we all know what moving parts can do. Last but not least, Aimpoint 1 is just that; a direction and not a guaranteed end state. A lot depends on new RegF PYs and the actual amounts of equipment.

At some point troopies want to smell gunpowder and feel the "Bang". Simulators are great, but why put up with all the other BS, just to play a boring video game, when you can play more interesting ones at home? If they get an AD role, give them some 25mm AD guns to work with or you start seeing recruiting and retention drops.

 

[dapaterson]

At some point troopies want to smell gunpowder and feel the "Bang". Simulators are great, but why put up with all the other BS, just to play a boring video game, when you can play more interesting ones at home? If they get an AD role, give them some 25mm AD guns to work with or you start seeing recruiting and retention drops.

Sims are part of a trading system, not the totality of it.

Working out the awkward bits in advance on sims lets the real equipment be used for more advanced training/ reinforcement.

 

[GK .Dundas]

At some point troopies want to smell gunpowder and feel the "Bang". Simulators are great, but why put up with all the other BS, just to play a boring video game, when you can play more interesting ones at home? If they get an AD role, give them some 25mm AD guns to work with or you start seeing recruiting and retention drops.

n8

Sims are part of a trading system, not the totality of it.

Working out the awkward bits in advance on sims lets the real equipment be used for more advanced training/ reinforcement.

The problem is that old habits tend to die hard. I suspect that once the powers that be discover just how cheap simulators are these days. That's all they buy.
Working on the grand old tradition of getting our allies to "loan" us the gear.
I always got the feeling that if the balloon had gone up during the cold war we based our planning and what the vast cornucopia to our South would provide to us.
That pool of resources is beginning to look rather shallow these days .