Here's another one for Kirkhill from the Defence Blog website...81mm Mortar mounted on a Polaris RZR.If they can rig up a 120mm mortar on an ISV they can do the same for the Senator.
Why on a UGV? You still need guys to lay the mortar, out rounds down the tube, and fire the thing. Might as well have them be transported along with it.
Mount it on whatever light vehicle the Light Battalions end up using. As for the UGV I was thinking as an alternate option should the Infantry be deployed without their vehicles, for example an airborne operation. Keeps the troops from having to hump the mortar and ammo.
You can man pack a 120mm, just not very far
It always struck me as odd that Canada didn't get into the CVR(T) line.
Yes, I've done it but for short tactical move. It should be kept as an back pocket option, not more. For Light Infantry, Light vehicles (bigger than the RZR) or helicopter is the way to go.
Are we jumping the UGV then?
Because when you put the crew in the vehicle the vehicle gets bigger and it becomes harder for the the vehicle to follow the soldiers (both own forces and enemy) on foot or 50 cc motocross bike.
The whole impetus behind UGVs is to take a load off dismounted soldiers so that they can advance farther, and faster, in complex terrain with weapons that give a higher probability of overmatch. One of the reasons tracks are popular is that they can go places wheels can't go, and, in some instances, places feet can't go.
Agreed x3.
You could drag a 120 on a pulk. But it would be easier if it had a few horses dragging it. Same with the 81. Its possible, as Goose Green demonstrated, but .....
Just like Wireless Ridge demonstrated the value to a small division (2 light brigades) of a couple of troops of toy tanks with popguns
Which brings me to the value of the MPFS vehicle.
I understand the value of a battalion of MPFS vehicles to a light division. It can be a very useful augmentation to light troops in the right circumstances. A penn'orth of heavy firepower at the local commander's fingertips can be very useful indeed when trying to maintain momentum (or deny it to the enemy).
My problem with the MPFS is that it is too heavy. It weighs half as much as an Abrams but the same as a LAV 6.0. That means that the advantage of the light force is diminished because it requires a bigger aircraft (and better runways) or a boat to get the MPFS into the field with the troops. A more flexible solution would have been something like the Scorpion with a 90mm low pressure cannon which weighs about as much as a JLTV or a Bv206 at 8 tonnes - all could be sling loaded forwards by a Chinook. All could traverse muddy swamps and piles of rubble.
The MPFS is still conceived as a tank by some rather than a gun. That is explicit in the design of the turret and its commonality with the Abrams turret. And yet we are concerned that the MPFS will be used like a tank, when driven by tankers, even though it is not a tank.
Why was the 105mm gun adopted rather than the 76 or 90s that were considered? For the same reason NATO ended up with the 7.62mm round. There were lots of them in storage. Peculiarly the Ukrainian kerfuffle is depleting the stores and consideration is being given to resurrecting 105mm production lines. Why not replace the 105 with the 90 LPF and lighten up the MPFS so that it could accompany the light troops more often?
And there is ample opportunity to convert light vehicles, even the size of the 4 tonne Wiesel, into Optionally Manned Vehicles that can be securely, remotely controlled with a tether (fiber optic by choice).
If you don't put crew in the vehicle you don't need armour and can carry more rounds on the gun.
I keep coming back to this
Drive the pickup as far as you can
Drive the ATV as far as you can
Walk as far as you can.
Prototype of which sorry
Sorry, it was quite literally one the prototypes of the Scorpion.
aerocorner.com
@KevinB - favourite helicopter CH-146
Bell CH-146 Griffon - Price, Specs, Photo Gallery, History - Aero Corner
The Bell CH-146 Griffon is a Canadian medium utility helicopter, originally designed for the Royal Canadian Air Force. It has since been exported to other international customers. The Griffon can be used in search and rescue missions, tactical transport of troops, medical evacuation, disaster...
Max Take Off Weight: 5,398 Kg
Max Payload: 1,830 Kg
Polaris 800 Widetrack Sled - 274 kg dry
Polaris 850 Sportsman Quad - 444 kg curb
Polaris MRZR D2 - 856 kg curb
Polaris MRZR D4 - 952 kg curb
Argo 8x8 Aurora 850 - 708 kg
Mission Master SP A-UGV - 750 kg.
All of those vehicles could be ported forwards with the light infantry by Canada's least capable utility helicopter. or transported by Cyclone, Cormorant or Chinook, taken on board an AOPS, a CSC, a JSS or the Asterix, or air freighted by CC177, CC130 or CC150 or palletized and airdropped from the CC177 or the CC130.
All of them will haul a lot of rucks, water, meals, ammunition, and support weapons and sensors. All of them will make the Light Infantry more capable and more likely to be able to overmatch any enemy they are likely to encounter.
Pity, cool little vehicle. Then again we’d have gotten into CVRT and be stuck trying to move soldiers around in Spartans or something.
Part of the Light issues in the CAF is the Rotary Wing fleets are too small to be effective, for anything larger than a Battalion.
The problem that has always crippled the Light Force construct in Canada is support beyond road.
I think he’s just pointing out the obvious support infrastructure issues to any Light Force enabler
And yet your tone begs to differ. My comment was purely about the value of a UGV carrying a mortar when you can have the whole team mounted together. You took exception, you changed tone.
