Infantry Vehicles

[Kirkhill]

Further to these discussions about lighter vehicles.

No argument - The Vickers was a better gun than the Browning. If you are going to have to lug that much weight it might as well be useful.

Or you could put wheels on it

Ukrainian Soldiers Shoot Maxim Machine Gun

Ukrainian soldiers shoot maxim machine guns on a firing range.

www.military.com

Thanks for that. Just thinking that, if it existed, a sight that combined the ballistics computations of the Aimpoint FCS13 with the registration of the C2 would be interesting. If its one or the other I would stick with the C2.



Hey. Where did I, on this thread, mention anything about the Grizzly?

I won't argue any of your points. The LAV is a much superior piece of kit for what the Canadian Army wants it to do. The AVGP was adequate for what Pierre Senior wanted it to do - keep the FLQ off the streets.

Having said that - babies and bathwater.

The Swiss modified their AVGP 6x6s in the early 2000s. They took the old turrets off them and replaced them with a proper RWS

View attachment 70917

Mowag Piranha II, Kdo Pz 6x6 gl - Gepanzerte Fahrzeuge - Radfahrzeuge | militärfahrzeuge.ch

militaerfahrzeuge.ch

Now the question is - That? (at 9800 kg kerb weight and amphibious)

Or This? (14,500 kg kerb weight and not amphibious)

View attachment 70918

Or even this? (at 6400 kg kerb weight and not amphibious).

View attachment 70919

But we are getting off track now.

In the same weight class as the Senator and the JLTV but amphibious and with NBC over-pressure system. And room in the back for an sUAS.

View attachment 92114

With essentially zero armour or sensors. There is some wisdom in vehicles like this for certain tasks but they're essentially useless in modern LSCO. For context, the armour is less effective on these than what you'd find on both JTLV and Senator.

General Dynamics debuts Pandur 6x6 SHORAD variant - Breaking Defense

Moog’s Reconfigurable Integrated-weapons Platform turret was added to the 6x6 vehicle following a US Army pre-solicitation last year.

breakingdefense.com

General Dynamics Land Systems is rolling out a modified version of its European built Pandur 6X6 combat vehicle, outfitted with a short-range air defense (SHORAD) turret currently in the US Army’s arsenal.

“The intent behind the Pandur is to start looking at how it can fit into the light infantry and the joint forcible entry requirements and operations that the Army has,” Ray Moldovan, the company’s manager for US business development, told Breaking Defense this week. “And currently they don’t have a short-range air defense capability that would basically give that formation the protection that it needs.”

In mid-2024, the service released a notice calling for ideas for potential air defense solutions to protect dismounted maneuver forces, under its Maneuver-SHORAD (M-SHORAD) Increment 4 program. Specifically, the Army was interested in cheaper, smaller options than its Stryker-based “Sergeant Stout” M-SHORAD system, with the new systems able to down unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) groups 1-3, and rotary wing and fixed wing aircraft.

Since GDLS is under contract for Sergeant Stout, it decided to use the same configuration of Moog’s Reconfigurable Integrated-weapons Platform (RIwP) turret for the smaller Pandur vehicle. That turret includes two Raytheon Stinger Vehicle Universal Launchers (SVULs) with each one carrying four surface-to-air missiles suited for faster, lower flying threats. Northrop Grumman’s XM914 30 mm Bushmaster Chain Gun, and an M240 7.62 mm machine gun is also on the turret.

Ray Moldovan, also working on US business development for the company, estimated that the Pandur configuration tips the scales around 40,000 lbs, or roughly 20,000 lbs lighter than the fielded Stryker variant.

“We’re looking at lighter weight and greater inter-theater and intra-theater transportability,” Moldovan said.

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If we wanted a lighter, cheaper version of a LAV then why not just dial the clock back and order some variants of the lighter, cheaper earlier models?