Injured recruits misdiagnosed then dropped by military

[Penny]

                I read the article in the starting post and it left me with more than a few questions about the fitness levels of the applicants mentioned. Also, I have seen MIR commandos and I know that some people do try to take advantage of the system.

                That said, there were a number of good, strong candidates who got very sick with pneumonia last summer at St Jean and I don't see how any amount of pre-course training could have prevented it. These candidates failed their test, ended up in RFT, fought their way through weeks of intense training, while sick, and finally passed their tests. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't agree with negative wrap that RFT members often get. It is a very hard course, designed to challenge every limit you may think you have and see just how dedicated you are to getting into the CF. If you make it through RFT you will be ahead of the standard applicants in proving your determination, self discipline, and willingness to endure pain to get results.

         If you want to bottom line the issue down to cost factor, RFT is a chance for the CF to recoup some of the investment that has gone into a recruit who made it thorough a very expensive and laborious screening process and paying for all those tests, appointments, interviews, and administration. They passed their first express test in their home town (and may have exceeded in the test sufficiently to beat out other applicants in the competition) , but for some reason failed their second express test at the beginning of the course (IAP or BMQ) or they failed their third express test at the end of the course.     

 

[aesop081]

                That said, there were a number of good, strong candidates who got very sick with pneumonia last summer at St Jean and I don't see how any amount of pre-course training could have prevented it. These candidates failed their test, ended up in RFT, fought their way through weeks of intense training, while sick, and finally passed their tests. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't agree with negative wrap that RFT members often get. It is a very hard course, designed to challenge every limit you may think you have and see just how dedicated you are to getting into the CF. If you make it through RFT you will be ahead of the standard applicants in proving your determination, self discipline, and willingness to endure pain to get results.

If those people had any motivation and determination there would not have been any need to send them to RFT in the first place. people who get sick are, of course, an exception but, the majority of people on RFT are not people who failed because they got sick for the test.

       

 If you want to bottom line the issue down to cost factor, RFT is a chance for the CF to recoup some of the investment that has gone into a recruit who made it thorough a very expensive and laborious screening process and paying for all those tests, appointments, interviews, and administration. They passed their first express test in their home town (and may have exceeded in the test sufficiently to beat out other applicants in the competition) , but for some reason failed their second express test at the beginning of the course (IAP or BMQ) or they failed their third express test at the end of the course.     

Again. The CF would not have to recover ANY investment if those people had enough drive, determination and motivation to get in shape first. RFT deserves the reputation it has.

 

[Penny]

Aside from the ones who had pneumonia then -  I repeat, they passed the express test in their home town.
A number of them also passed the second express test at the start of their course.
Then failed the third express test at the end of the course.
I'm sorry, I have to disagree with your conclusion.

 

[aesop081]

Aside from the ones who had pneumonia then -  I repeat, they passed the express test in their home town.
A number of them also passed the second express test at the start of their course.
Then failed the third express test at the end of the course.
I'm sorry, I have to disagree with your conclusion.

Since the RegF does not test at the recruiting center i dont know where you go this idea that they "passed in their home town"

 

[Penny]

I won't argue online, it's poor etiquette. I will however PM you the reasons why I stated that fact.

 

[danchapps]

I know people that failed the express at the end of the course. They make it that far and something happens. Who knows why they fail, I don't, and I won't even fathom a guess. I know myself, I was pretty close. However having spent the 3 weeks prior to my test with one injury, only to suffer another only a couple of days before played a factor. I pushed through the shuttle run, even did a lot better than the first attempt at the start of the course. But I feel that the effort I put out on that portion sapped my strength from the other parts of the test. I know I could have done better, but couldn't because of the pain I was in. It's been about 7 weeks since my second injury, and I'm still in pain every day. I'm hoping physiotherapy works, because I want the pain to stop. I was very steadfast in wanting to make sure I don't cause more damage to myself. Some may think of me as a MIRC, but I think I'm more useful to the CF if I take it easy for a bit, and not cause long term damage. It saves money in the long run I think. It would be nice if there was no stigma that went along with going to the MIR injured. I know it bummed me right out, knowing that some of my "peers" thought I was faking.

 

[aesop081]

I won't argue online, it's poor etiquette. I will however PM you the reasons why I stated that fact.

I got your PM and its hardly "fact"

 

[blacktriangle]

There's no excuse to fail the express test. I have not done much exercise in months due to a swollen esophaghus, and still passed the test and got exempt...

I also helped coach a grade 7/8 soccer team...and yeah they all did harder stuff every practice. 12-14 years olds.

The express test should not be something you can fail, unless you have a broken bone or something like that...

 

[GDSM MTL]

I've just completed my first weekend course of BMQ at St-Hubert Garrison in Quebec.  The instructors are hardcore but understanding.  However, I do see people who are definitely lagging and will guaranteed encounter problems later in our course.  Some of these people happen to be the most arrogant, ass-kissing candidates on the course, and yet lag behind when it comes to the actual work load.  They are not selfless, but instead are careerists looking for a leap ahead in the rat race that is their lives.  Be they Officer Cadets or not, everybody should feel an equality and sympathy for their peers during this course.  If these arrogant candidates happen to become injured, I will see it as ironic justice, for these are the candidates who push others to do what they themselves cannot. 

 

[armyvern]

Since the RegF does not test at the recruiting center i dont know where you go this idea that they "passed in their home town"

I won't argue online, it's poor etiquette. I will however PM you the reasons why I stated that fact.

All right -- let's sort this bit out.

Cdn Aviator, Penny is speaking to occurances during her training which occured last year (in the summer). It is indeed within the realm of possibility that some of them had done the Express test in their hometown prior to their reporting to Saint Jean, if they had been recruited prior to the policy change.

Penny,
The same situation that was applicable to your BMQ/BOTP is NOT applicable to the crop of recruits that have been reporting to Saint Jean since last year when the RegF recruiting policy changed. Express testing has not been a requirement for RegF recruiting since early last summer. Indeed some recruits who found themselves in Saint Jean last summer who had found themselves reporting for training very quickly after their enrolment would not have performed an Express test in their Home town -- and, quite possibly, your assumption that all pers on your particular course last summer had done so, may itself be erroneous. Some of those pers could have enrolled well after you and after the policy change, but may well have been on your course.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/57242.0.html

As well, regarding the pneumonia bits -- I just want to clarify that you are saying that these people were clinicly diagnosed with pneumonia, yet were still required to do an Express Test and perform full spectrum RFT PT while on their medical chits??

 

[xo31@711ret]

As well, regarding the pneumonia bits -- I just want to clarify that you are saying that these people were clinicly diagnosed with pneumonia, yet were still required to do an Express Test and perform full spectrum RFT PT while on their medical chits??
Exactly Vern; unless the individual did not present his chit to the pt personnel; No one (in their right mind) is going to 'override' a medical chit due to the ramifications and s**t-storm that would soon follow 'em if they did. Yesterday I had to give out 2 med chits for 'excused pt / express test' for individuals who are heading to our supporting base for their express testing end of this week.....yesterday was 'sports day' (no contact sports); yeeeah...

 

[daftandbarmy]

As well, regarding the pneumonia bits -- I just want to clarify that you are saying that these people were clinicly diagnosed with pneumonia, yet were still required to do an Express Test and perform full spectrum RFT PT while on their medical chits??
Exactly Vern; unless the individual did not present his chit to the pt personnel; No one (in their right mind) is going to 'override' a medical chit due to the ramifications and s**t-storm that would soon follow 'em if they did. Yesterday I had to give out 2 med chits for 'excused pt / express test' for individuals who are heading to our supporting base for their express testing end of this week.....yesterday was 'sports day' (no contact sports); yeeeah...

Canada: Going for Bronze  ;D

 

[Southern Boy]

The express test should not be something you can fail, unless you have a broken bone or something like that...

Agree. The CF Expres Test is designed so that if you are in at least minimal shape you should pass. IMHO there is no excuses for failing it unless you have a medical problem as stated...

 

[slowmode]

The thing about the express test is that its the MINIMUM standard you need to be in the forces. Its made so most people..if not almost everyone can pass this test. Just because you could do exactly only 19 pushups does not mean you should be in the military. The Military expects you to take the results of these tests, see how you did and IMPROVE your self in your physical fitness. Physically the more you do in the military you will find out that being Physically fit is a MUST.

So in the end I say this, if one cannot pass a SIMPLE, and yes I affirm the word SIMPLE express test to get into the military then maybe they should either
a. Go find another job
b. Work on your PT then try again

 

[RTaylor]

I can see some people not passing every aspect of the CF Express test, time has changed as well as our culture's look on exercise, it's gone from being something in our everyday life to being an activity that's given very little thought.

Not passing all parts of the Express Test in the initial stages of BMQ, I can see that. What I can't see is how in the hell someone who's been on RFT for 90days or is in their 10th / 13th week of Basic can not do this. This shows lack of any effort IMO, and these people should be discharged unless they have a medical issue that has made them fail.

I'll be the first to admit that I can't do many pushups (the regulatory 19 I can) and have been working on my cardio. I've made a few sacrifices (taking a pay cut by going part time) to get myself in shape, there's no reason that anyone thinking of joining the Forces can't do the same.

As for injuries? I've had my Achille's Tendon + Muscle almost tear apart, I was put on a RTU 4 days before the end of my course and I never got to pass it. I worked through it by getting 2 opinions by civvie doctors (family doctor, outpatients doctor) and Im fine now. It's a shame that those girls were overlooked.

 

[Timmy!]

I blame TN2IC aka Sgt. Schutlz for not getting out early enough to salt and sand the roads  ;D

Wow... old post. Sorry for the real extreme delay.

Now let's think here... water freezes overnight turning into ice. Now for me to lay out some "salt" it would have to be sunny outside for it to work. (Duh)

And to sand, some/most bases do not use sand at all. I know here we don't. Nor will you see it on an Air Force base. I believe it's due to sand upsetting the aircraft engines. Hints why we use tow sweepers in those cases.

^-^


You know what?
Screw this... I'm taking that zamboni and running it around Sapper's shack, just so he can have a slip! And I'm not salting/sanding it either!



:rofl: