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Intelligence Officer / Operator

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waningcrows

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I've seen a number of threads related to this, but haven't seen one recent enough that I'd really rely on (unless things are that stagnant), apart from the 2018/2019 DEO sticky.

I wrote my CFAT in 2016 and scored 'very high'. I was told this week that because of my scores, degrees, and background, I'd qualified for any of the Officer trades; so, my DEO picks are Int Officer, Pilot, and ACSO.

I was also told the wait for anything further in the process could be 2-8 months. I know that these are specialized positions, so there may only be certain timeframes/courses where I can start training for them, post BMOQ.

That said, I've seen people on here with specialized trades waiting 1+ years just for BMQ/BMOQ - is this still true now that there is such a push for new CAF members?
 
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I can't recall the exact thread that said it, but I remember reading something that said, "Even with the army needing a lot of people, they still have something like 4000+ applicants for something like 100ish jobs?" I'd have to dig on that a bit more, since that was pretty profound for me. So, that being said, you can easily be waiting 1+ years for BMQ/BMOQ -- just because you applied while they're seeking people, doesn't mean anything more. You're not owed a job or anything, as this forum is fond of saying, and it'll depend on where you are on that merit list.

Next, I guess I wanted to just type on Int Officer. That trade's pretty closed. No "hiring" on the top. Compare that to Pilot, which it does! (At least in the time of writing, April 2nd, 2018). You're not going to get into that, at all.

So, that being said, that 2-8 month process sounds about right, if not generous. It might be having a push for people, but the CAF definitely can afford to be choosy. I'd wait on the interview, hope you're high up on that merit list... and as everyone here loves saying..

Hurry up and Wait!
 

LegioXEquestris

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Hey man, I'm happy to chip in with some of my experiences in the process. Please note that I'm just another humble applicant, much like yourself, so some informal suggestions is all I can give ya.

I also did my CFAT back in 2016, scored "very high" (I feel those words are being thrown out there a lot) and qualified for every trade. My recruiter suggested Int DEO as well, given my language abilities and a compatible Master's degree from Oxford. For me though, it was combat arms or bust, so I didn't give the other trades much consideration and pushed on with my application.

Looking at your signature, it is possible that you will be in for quite a wait. Reliability screening will take time to complete, but what could very well hold up your application is Pre-Sec. In my case the two of them took over a year to complete. As I've traveled and studied abroad quite extensively within the last ten years, this is perhaps understandable. It would appear that most CAF applicants did not have to sit through the process, and having a reliability screening was deemed sufficient. If you are Canadian born and raised, and have not been to problematic countries, then you may not have to go through with Pre-Sec (which can take 6-18 months to complete) at all. I was told that it was merely a formality, albeit a long one, since almost no one get their Pre-Sec denied. 

Coding has provided you some very solid stuff right there. INT DEO positions rarely open up (according to Buck CAF is looking to hire only 4 in the 2018/19 FY, and on the forces website it's not even listed as currently hiring). INT's a pretty niche occupation, and as one of the "cool" jobs it has a lot of appeal so competition for openings is likely intense. Having said that, if you have a killer CFAT score and meet and exceed all the right criteria, there's nothing stopping you from getting an offer if and when the selection board for that occupation convenes.

Pilot is always looking to hire, and for good reasons: many don't even make it to the competition list. Unlike most occupations, there are a variety of factors that could end your application. Low CFAT score is the first hurdle for many, medical is the other (e.g. less than 20/20 vision and you can forget about it). Air Crew Selection's no picnic either. Not everyone's cut out for the job, but that just means if you make it to the competition list then your chances are looking pretty good. The problem with INT is that there aren't too many hurdles; a very high CFAT score may get you on the competition list but when you are competing against so many for so few openings, there's no telling how long you might have to wait.

I also feel that many applicants get the wrong impression with how "desperate" CAF is looking to recruit. Some news outlets talk no end about how CAF is short on personnel and struggles with retention. There may be some truth to it, but what many of them neglects to mention is that apparently "far more Canadians — by a factor of 10 — show interest in enlisting than the armed forces actually take in any given year" (please see this Feb 2018 article http://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/02/19/us-fight-for-military-recruits-not-echoed-in-canada-but-problems-remain/). I think a lot of recruiters also do not let on how competitive the process can be, perhaps not wanting to discourage potentially qualified applicants. As for DEO applications, so many people have university degrees these days a Bachelor's or Master's will hardly make anyone stand out.

Also bear in mind that BMOQs happen only so many times a year, and definitely far less frequently than BMQs. Even if you receive an offer, therefore, you may still have to wait several month before going off to basic. By the same token, DEO selections occur less frequently than NCM selections, which may also contribute to longer wait times.

I don't want to paint a picture of doom and gloom. Nevertheless, I think it is very important for you to have a realistic expectation of the process. Ultimately, if CAF thinks you have what it takes, you will be given a chance. It will take time, however, and unfortunately there is no getting around that. The recruitment process is far from perfect, but it does work - and you have to make it work. Be proactive and get all your documents right can go some way in speeding up Pre-Sec. It sounds like you have a good application going, and with your interview coming up you still have time to improve on your chances. Research everything you can about your chosen trades, ask yourself why you want to join the force and why specifically the trades you chose.

At the risk of giving you an answer on something I have no authority on, I'm just gonna come out and say that there is no way your application for those trades will get processed in a couple of month. Whether it stays under a year could very well depend on whether you have to go through Pre-Sec.

At the end of the day, I'm just another applicant like you, so take what I've said here as you will. Much of the process is simply out of your control. I will say this though: you may not control how long it takes, but you sure as hell can determine where you sit on that competition list. Your CFAT is done, but there is still the interview to go. Work on it and give it all you've got. I wish you all the best!


   
 

OceanBonfire

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LegioXEquestris said:
.... As for DEO applications, so many people have university degrees these days a Bachelor's or Master's will hardly make anyone stand out.

...

Depends on how you define "many people". No more than 31% of adult Canadians holds at least a Bachelor's degree:

https://www.facebook.com/StatisticsCanada/photos/a.168165143295004.32908.125909694187216/1367581120020061/?type=3&theater

From my perception, having at least a Bachelor's degree makes you stand out.
 

Loachman

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OceanBonfire said:
From my perception, having at least a Bachelor's degree makes you stand out.

It took my daughter many years at Rotten Ronnie's (yes, just like the old joke) to pay off her student debt for her BA, and she was not the only one like that at her McDonald's.
 

LegioXEquestris

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OceanBonfire said:
Depends on how you define "many people". No more than 31% of adult Canadians holds at least a Bachelor's degree:

https://www.facebook.com/StatisticsCanada/photos/a.168165143295004.32908.125909694187216/1367581120020061/?type=3&theater

From my perception, having at least a Bachelor's degree makes you stand out.

OP is taking the officer route, and in addressing his question I was specifically referring to DEO applications. Considering that all direct entry occupations require a university degree as a prerequisite, having only a Bachelor's certainly won't make you stand out from the crowd. 
 

OceanBonfire

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LegioXEquestris said:
OP is taking the officer route, and in addressing his question I was specifically referring to DEO applications. Considering that all direct entry occupations require a university degree as a prerequisite, having only a Bachelor's certainly won't make you stand out from the crowd.

But he didn't asked about the level of education. For that part I'm pretty sure anybody would have figured that out...
 

LegioXEquestris

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OceanBonfire said:
But he didn't asked about the level of education. For that part I'm pretty sure anybody would have figured that out...

That's fair enough. In that case I will concede that my sentence was redundant. It's not factually incorrect, however, as I simply said that for DEO applicants a Bachelor's will not make one stand out.

I was just trying to help the OP (Waningcrows) by giving him some personal advice that I wish I had when I started my application almost 2 years ago. I was not at all trying to discourage OP by saying he is not an outstanding applicant. Just wanted to highlight two important observations I picked up during this time: (1) even though CAF is pushing for new members, the process is selective, perhaps more so than OP realises, and (2) regardless of how competitive OP is, the process will in all likelihood take some time to complete, and whether OP makes it to basic in 2-8 months will depend on a lot of things, not all of which are in his control. 
 

G8r

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As an intOps recruit, I have been informed that after BMQ, I will be transferred to Intelligence School Kingston and while awaiting a spot in course, will be on Basic Training List.  What will this entail?  Am I looking at 4-6 months of mopping floors and peeling potatoes?

 

G8r

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I have been informed that after BMQ and BMQ Land, that I will report to CFSMI in Kingston, and while waiting 4-8 months for a spot in a course, I will be BMQ List.  I assume that this essentially puts you to work on the base while awaiting specialized training.  But what kind of work do recruits on List perform?  Am I looking at 6 months of swabbing floors and peeling potatoes?  If I am not trained for my chosen MOC, then what will I be doing until I am brought in for course training?  I appreciate any insight.
 

da1root

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G8r said:
I have been informed that after BMQ and BMQ Land, that I will report to CFSMI in Kingston, and while waiting 4-8 months for a spot in a course, I will be BMQ List.  I assume that this essentially puts you to work on the base while awaiting specialized training.  But what kind of work do recruits on List perform?  Am I looking at 6 months of swabbing floors and peeling potatoes?  If I am not trained for my chosen MOC, then what will I be doing until I am brought in for course training?  I appreciate any insight.

This type of employment is called "General Duty" (GD).  You can be doing many things; it depends on what is required on the base.  My unit in Borden has 2-3 people from the BTL and we've employed them as Drivers.
 

G8r

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Thank you for your response.  I love driving.  I could handle that.

On an aside, anyone know how I can delete my double post?
 

Pikache

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G8r said:
As an intOps recruit, I have been informed that after BMQ, I will be transferred to Intelligence School Kingston and while awaiting a spot in course, will be on Basic Training List.  What will this entail?  Am I looking at 4-6 months of mopping floors and peeling potatoes?
It will depend on which BTL you get assigned to, and whether there is an int unit or organization willing to take you on for OJT. What you do for OJT will depend on a lot of things. How busy that unit is, whether they have pers available to mentor you, etc. Some int units will train you to certain level and take you on exercises and such. At some other units you may end up doing very little or GD.

How much you get out of any OJT time is up to you. As a future int op, you should be doing a lot of self learning anyways. If you do get a chance to do OJT at an int unit (try to get to an ASIC), ask if there is a training plan for OJTs, and what can you learn on your own. I would concentrate on briefing/public speaking skills, researching and basic military tactics (doctrine, how each arms fight/operate, etc) to get you prepared for QL3.
 

Loachman

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What is your current security clearance level?
 

pascalywood

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G8r said:
I have been informed that after BMQ and BMQ Land, that I will report to CFSMI in Kingston, and while waiting 4-8 months for a spot in a course, I will be BMQ List.  I assume that this essentially puts you to work on the base while awaiting specialized training.  But what kind of work do recruits on List perform?  Am I looking at 6 months of swabbing floors and peeling potatoes?  If I am not trained for my chosen MOC, then what will I be doing until I am brought in for course training?  I appreciate any insight.

It all depends. When I was on BTL at CFSMI at first we had a MCpl and a WO that gave us lessons about AFV recognition, maps, ethics, past conflicts, etc. Then those guys had to leave and we were back to moving chairs around, driving, working at CQ. CFSMI is short staffed and they dont have the manpower to assign someone fulltime to teach the ropes of the trade to the OJT.
 

Jackal2018

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Hello everyone,

I have searched through the forums but was unable to find the answer to my questions below. I hope I am asking them in the right place.

I am interested in joining the CAF as an Intelligence Officer. I am going to be writing the CFAT and doing the Physical Forces test this week.
Only the Navy Reserves are accepting Intelligence Officer applications (The Army reserves apparently closed it a couple of weeks back so I was too late in applying).
I went to the information session at the Navy Reserves unit here in Montreal and I was told that they are always accepting applications for Intelligence Officers and don't have a limit (unless I misheard or misunderstood).
How true is this and what does it mean for me? Will I actually have a chance at this trade or is it there to pull in candidates for the other trades? I liked the presentation and the unit itself and would like to join there but I don't understand how they can always be accepting candidates for this trade when, as far as I understand, it is one of the most competitive ones out there, with the army reserves filling their openings almost immediately.

Someone in the Army Reserves told me that with this Naval Reserve unit I would not be a real Intelligence Officer and that is why they are always accepting candidates, but didn't elaborate on why more than "because it's a stone frigate, they take all trades but don't use them"

The other thing is that I initially started my CAF application with the Army Reserves so the Naval Reserves Unit told me to call them after my CFAT in order to transfer the file to them.
Does this mean that I will lose any chance at my other Officer choices in the army reserves if it doesn't pan out for me as Intelligence Officer.

I really hope I didn't post this in the wrong place as I've scoured the forums for answer to these questions.

Much appreciated,

Jackal2018
 

da1root

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Jackal2018 said:
Hello everyone,

I have searched through the forums but was unable to find the answer to my questions below. I hope I am asking them in the right place.

I am interested in joining the CAF as an Intelligence Officer. I am going to be writing the CFAT and doing the Physical Forces test this week.
Only the Navy Reserves are accepting Intelligence Officer applications (The Army reserves apparently closed it a couple of weeks back so I was too late in applying).
I went to the information session at the Navy Reserves unit here in Montreal and I was told that they are always accepting applications for Intelligence Officers and don't have a limit (unless I misheard or misunderstood).
How true is this and what does it mean for me? Will I actually have a chance at this trade or is it there to pull in candidates for the other trades? I liked the presentation and the unit itself and would like to join there but I don't understand how they can always be accepting candidates for this trade when, as far as I understand, it is one of the most competitive ones out there, with the army reserves filling their openings almost immediately.

Someone in the Army Reserves told me that with this Naval Reserve unit I would not be a real Intelligence Officer and that is why they are always accepting candidates, but didn't elaborate on why more than "because it's a stone frigate, they take all trades but don't use them"

The other thing is that I initially started my CAF application with the Army Reserves so the Naval Reserves Unit told me to call them after my CFAT in order to transfer the file to them.
Does this mean that I will lose any chance at my other Officer choices in the army reserves if it doesn't pan out for me as Intelligence Officer.

I really hope I didn't post this in the wrong place as I've scoured the forums for answer to these questions.

Much appreciated,

Jackal2018

"Stone Frigates" (Naval Reserve Divisions) do have positions for all NAVRES occupations; that doesn't mean that they don't do their occupation though.  The Army Reserve is often set-up (with the exception of Service Battalions) that each unit is for one type of occupation (Infantry, Artillery, Signals, MPs, Intelligence, etc); however NAVRES Units have all available Navy Reserve occupations at each unit.  Intelligence Officer is new within NAVRES (it used to be a NAVRES trade, got removed for a number of years and is reintroduced again).

As to them "always" accepting applications; again the Army and the Navy differ.  When a Army unit fills all of it's applications it cannot "borrow" from another unit.  Where as NAVRES is able to shift it's positions from unit to unit.  So while HMCS DONNACONA might fill all of it's positions early in the year, HMCS MALAHAT might not, which means DON can "borrow" positions from MAL (with approval from NAVRESHQ).  This is why they're always able to accept applications; because until the national quota has been filled they're able to enroll more members.

In regards to your other question about your Army occupations remaining open, you'd need to discuss this with either your Army or Navy Recruiter.  The Reserves has "owned" their own recruiting for the last 2 years; previously you could apply to multiple units but now that each element is in charge of their own recruiting this may have changed.
 

Jackal2018

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Buck_HRA said:
"Stone Frigates" (Naval Reserve Divisions) do have positions for all NAVRES occupations; that doesn't mean that they don't do their occupation though.  The Army Reserve is often set-up (with the exception of Service Battalions) that each unit is for one type of occupation (Infantry, Artillery, Signals, MPs, Intelligence, etc); however NAVRES Units have all available Navy Reserve occupations at each unit.  Intelligence Officer is new within NAVRES (it used to be a NAVRES trade, got removed for a number of years and is reintroduced again).

As to them "always" accepting applications; again the Army and the Navy differ.  When a Army unit fills all of it's applications it cannot "borrow" from another unit.  Where as NAVRES is able to shift it's positions from unit to unit.  So while HMCS DONNACONA might fill all of it's positions early in the year, HMCS MALAHAT might not, which means DON can "borrow" positions from MAL (with approval from NAVRESHQ).  This is why they're always able to accept applications; because until the national quota has been filled they're able to enroll more members.

In regards to your other question about your Army occupations remaining open, you'd need to discuss this with either your Army or Navy Recruiter.  The Reserves has "owned" their own recruiting for the last 2 years; previously you could apply to multiple units but now that each element is in charge of their own recruiting this may have changed.

Thank you for the detailed answer Buck. This does clear up a lot of confusion that I had regarding this.
I was getting conflicting information regarding applying at two different units at the same time, but it was cleared up to me yesterday that you can in fact only have a single application either for Army Reserves or Naval Reserves, but not at the same time.

I have to choose between the two occupations at this time and it's a hard choice, but I'm doing my research and asking more questions at the units and the recruiters.

Thanks again.
 

Jackal2018

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Regarding the interview for Intelligence Officer trade, I understand that I am expected to be explain what the trade does and everything around it.
The information I have found has been sparse however.
For example, there is the Intelligence Officer page on the DND website, but doesn't say much about Navy or Navy Reserves.
There is also http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/en/navy-life/careers-reserve which speaks briefly about naval reserves intelligence, but not too many details.
As far as I can see from my searches on these forums, there aren't many details to be found on this either (regarding the interview specifically).

Would anyone be able to tell me what other specific things I will be expected to know so I can better prepare for the interview?

Edit: To clarify, I have read and am rereading this thread for more information, but I wanted to know what information I would need to know specifically for the interview.
 

Jackal2018

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Jackal2018 said:
Regarding the interview for Intelligence Officer trade, I understand that I am expected to be explain what the trade does and everything around it.
The information I have found has been sparse however.
For example, there is the Intelligence Officer page on the DND website, but doesn't say much about Navy or Navy Reserves.
There is also http://www.navy-marine.forces.gc.ca/en/navy-life/careers-reserve which speaks briefly about naval reserves intelligence, but not too many details.
As far as I can see from my searches on these forums, there aren't many details to be found on this either (regarding the interview specifically).

Would anyone be able to tell me what other specific things I will be expected to know so I can better prepare for the interview?

Edit: To clarify, I have read and am rereading this thread for more information, but I wanted to know what information I would need to know specifically for the interview.

It seems I misunderstood what is required to be known about an Officer trade for the interview. I initially assumed I was supposed to know the minutiae of the day-to-day work than an intelligence officer does. Without giving away much about the interview, the expectation is not to know everything prior to the interview like I assumed, but to make sure you enough enough about the trade to know what you're getting into. I realize my assumption was a little silly now.
I just wanted anyone to come across this question to not panic about not knowing absolutely everything before the interview.

I hope I'm not giving too much away about the interview so feel free to delete this post if I am.
 
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