Interview advice (merged)

[Michael OLeary]

Wow....blade a recruiter.  Good way to start your career.

It would appear that if his complaint was upheld, then he was fully justified in using the system to seek correction of a wrong decision and action.

 

[Lil_T]

...and I didn't see him mentioning the name of the recruiter either. 

Good on you Cas for making the system work for you.

 

[2 Cdo]

Wow....blade a recruiter.  Good way to start your career.

Apparently you missed the point that the recruiter/recruiting office screwed up. This individual wants to serve and was given false information from the recruiter.

Or is lying to prospective soldiers okay in your book?

 

[ltmaverick25]

Wow....blade a recruiter.  Good way to start your career.

It seems to me that the recruiter was blading him.  I dont recall a time in 2008 when all officer positions were closed either.  Some of them may get closed but certainly not all of them at the same time.

On another note, its good to see that the government is actually responsive to this kind of BS.

 

[George Wallace]

I'd like to point out that those are rather drastic measures to have to take.  In some cases they are necessary.  In some cases they are more of a nuisance tactic that an unscrupulous person may be using to escape a perceived bias or punishment.  I am currently witnessing/experiencing the latter at the moment.  It is a double edged sword that often can hurt/smear all parties involved.  No one is the "innocent" in the end and everyone has a dark cloud over them.

In a way it reminds me of the days fifteen or so years ago, where people who weren't awarded a certain limited issue medal, went to their Member of Parliament and requested them.  Everyone in the Unit knew, and formed an instant opinion on the member's character.

It is often a double edged sword when these procedures are carried out.

 

[Cas]

I'd like to point out that those are rather drastic measures to have to take.  In some cases they are necessary.  In some cases they are more of a nuisance tactic that an unscrupulous person may be using to escape a perceived bias or punishment.  I am currently witnessing/experiencing the latter at the moment.  It is a double edged sword that often can hurt/smear all parties involved.  No one is the "innocent" in the end and everyone has a dark cloud over them.

In a way it reminds me of the days fifteen or so years ago, where people who weren't awarded a certain limited issue medal, went to their Member of Parliament and requested them.  Everyone in the Unit knew, and formed an instant opinion on the member's character.

It is often a double edged sword when these procedures are carried out.

Wow George..................deep.  Keep up the good work.

 

[Nauticus]

From my experiences, Recruitment Centres are extremely unhelpful and useless in many ways. I apologize in advance, but you never receive callbacks and the information you actually do get out of them is often incorrect. This is just my experiences.

I learnt that if you truly want to know something, you have to actively look for it yourself. Forums, official websites, etc. It's hard to work with the Recruiting Centre, but if you want in the CF that badly, you have to just tolerate it and wade through it.

Note: No offense to anybody here who is a CF recruiter. I may have just been unlucky, but many people I've spoken to have had similar experiences. My comments are based on my experiences only.

 

[Love793]

From my experiences, Recruitment Centres are extremely unhelpful and useless in many ways. I apologize in advance, but you never receive callbacks and the information you actually do get out of them is often incorrect. This is just my experiences.

I learnt that if you truly want to know something, you have to actively look for it yourself. Forums, official websites, etc. It's hard to work with the Recruiting Centre, but if you want in the CF that badly, you have to just tolerate it and wade through it.

Note: No offense to anybody here who is a CF recruiter. I may have just been unlucky, but many people I've spoken to have had similar experiences. My comments are based on my experiences only.

The major problem is that there isn't a specific recruiter per trade in each CFRC or CFRC DET. We try to get a good representation from the three elements, that can speak on behalf of their specific element and have a clue about the jobs in each. However having intimate knowledge of all 100 + occupations is impossible to guarantee.  Unfortunately there are also a very select few in the Centres or Dets whom haven't even a clue of the different jobs in their own element.  The best thing as you said is to research the trade on line, through hand outs, talking to guys in the trade, vets etc.

 

[templeton peck]

Wow....blade a recruiter.  Good way to start your career.

That is a really ignorant thing to say. Yes, if he mentioned the person who screwed him over, that would be a different matter. There is NOTHING wrong with using the system for what it is intended for. The Canadian government and all of its branches including the CF, are not perfect and these avenues are very important to have as a citizen who virtually has no power when it comes to bureaucracy and incompetence. In my experience, CF recruiting centers do not all follow the same procedure and not all of the people working in them care about the individual applicant – some do!
As with any place of business, you see people who are in positions that they really have no business being in, and the recruiters are not any different. I remember back during my application days and calling in and speaking to someone (never the same person twice) and getting various answers to the same question depending on who you spoke to - and all of them sounded very definitive and final, and obviously some or most of them had to be dead wrong. RCR has a motto - Never pass a fault, should apply to recruiters, unfortunately it doesn't seem too consistently, and isn't a very good introduction to the military life!

 

[RCDtpr]

Maybe it isn't a good introduction to military life.  But the fact of the matter is that IS military life.  I for one, do not like people who whine to higher ups everytime they don't get their way.

 

[tabernac]

Maybe it isn't a good introduction to military life.  But the fact of the matter is that IS military life.  I for one, do not like people who whine to higher ups everytime they don't get their way.

Apparently you don't understand how the recruiter mislead the OP, and gave him false info. Or maybe you do understand, and are just apathetic to such situations. If someone in my chain of command deliberately misinformed me or someone else, you can be damned sure I would seek mediation, as the OP did.

TDV

edit: info

 

[armyvern]

I'm just amazed ... period. This must be the quickest the system has ever worked for ANYONE.

EVEN utilizing ATI. Applied in Aug 08 ... a mere 6 months ago. We have people waiting years in the recruiting centre.

6 months ago he was told it would be destroyed after 5 months (either correctly or incorrectly). Now, did you wait until that 5th month to file the ATI? Or what? Or did you do that immediately after applying 6 months ago?

Also: Perhaps you should change your thread title.

It's current title leads me to think that you were "legitimately" screwed over. Yet, you are raging here that you were NOT "legitimately" screwed over.

What one pers refused entry into the CF considers "screwed over" does not equate "actually being screwed over".

We've plenty of applicants who have been rejected for legitimate medical factors etc, but if you ask them ... they'll insist that the rules are bullshit and that they were screwed over.

So, the MND personally looked after you and "allegedly" dealt with a recruiter personally too.

I guess my question is ... that 6 months (from your application date until now) is extremely FAST to get into the CF these days by any standard of the imagination. Are you now getting in? Or not? Quicker than the guy next to you? Or did you have to completely re-apply in Sydney?

Is the MND going to have time to do the same thing for each and every recruit (THOUSANDS of people) file those recruiters are currently handling accross the nation? I'd think not.

Oh, and by the time all applicants file ATI's ... the MND and the recruiters will be spending 150% of their days actionning and researching and then answering ATI requests ... so (oooops sorry) but they won't then have any time to actually process any more applicants. And THAT in itself will be a legitimate reason for someone not to be recruited within a mere 6 months after they originally applied. Wow, talk about making a slow recruiting process even slower ... that'll do it.

ATI requests should be absolutely the LAST resort if you absolutely feel you have been rejected etc for an "ILLEGITIMATE" reason ... not legitimate ones.

 

[George Wallace]

The major problem is that there isn't a specific recruiter per trade in each CFRC or CFRC DET. We try to get a good representation from the three elements, that can speak on behalf of their specific element and have a clue about the jobs in each. However having intimate knowledge of all 100 + occupations is impossible to guarantee.  Unfortunately there are also a very select few in the Centres or Dets whom haven't even a clue of the different jobs in their own element.  The best thing as you said is to research the trade on line, through hand outs, talking to guys in the trade, vets etc.

  Very good points.  Just to add to that, many working in the Recruiting Centers across the country are Reservists.

 

[Loachman]

Maybe it isn't a good introduction to military life.  But the fact of the matter is that IS military life.  I for one, do not like people who whine to higher ups everytime they don't get their way.

So we should scrap our grievance system now?

Sometimes injustices are done. Should they be ignored? Would you like to serve in an organization where that happened routinely?

I have been the assisting officer for a number of people who were treated quite shoddily. Their complaints were completely justified. None of them "whined". In most cases, their motivation to complain was to prevent the same thing from happening to others.

Using legitimate means to correct incompetence or abuse is not "whining".

More people should stand up to such incompetence and abuse. We, the CF, and society in general would all be better off for it.

Stop making excuses for incompetents and abusers.

 

[len173]

From my experiences, Recruitment Centres are extremely unhelpful and useless in many ways. I apologize in advance, but you never receive callbacks and the information you actually do get out of them is often incorrect. This is just my experiences.

I learnt that if you truly want to know something, you have to actively look for it yourself. Forums, official websites, etc. It's hard to work with the Recruiting Centre, but if you want in the CF that badly, you have to just tolerate it and wade through it.

Note: No offense to anybody here who is a CF recruiter. I may have just been unlucky, but many people I've spoken to have had similar experiences. My comments are based on my experiences only.

I have found the same thing in the past when I looked into the CF. I found recruiters who made me feel like they didn't care, and had no interest in getting me into uniform.

However, I eventually bit the bullet, and am currently joining up, and the recruiter I have dealt with is great in every possible way. I am very happy with my experience thus far, so it just depends.

 

[chris_log]

Maybe it isn't a good introduction to military life.  But the fact of the matter is that IS military life.  I for one, do not like people who whine to higher ups everytime they don't get their way.

We have the grievance system for a reason, the way the military works and is structured the possibility of abuse and deliberate incompetence is elevated. That being said, there are people who abuse the grievance system but that's the nature of anything like this. CF members need to have recourse when they have been wronged by the system. I know there is a belief that people use the grievance system to correct 'personal' issues, but from what I've learned the people responsible for actioning grievences are pretty good at seperating the wheat from the chaff.

Also, I guess I've been lucky when it comes to recruiters. Both times around I never had a problem, in fact, the only admin problems I had were during my CT and were the fault of my unit's OR.

Is it an issue with recruiters, or with the attitudes of some applicants? I.e. I get the impression that sometimes people feel it is their right to serve (which in some ways is a good thing....nice to see Canadians who feel that they need to be in the CF) and their right to get the recruiter's undivided attention. I'm in no way referring to the OP, but just a general observation...

 

[newmet]

OK, so I am going to jump in here and say a few things...
1)  for the Op of this post:  I am glad you were able to get the system to work for you, sometimes it comes back and bites the person in the butt when they fight back.  The system is there to protect people and should be used when necessary.
2)  for RCDtpr:  I don't think anyone whined and cried, he felt like he was being treated improperly and he fought back, good for him, hopefully as an officer he will be one of the ones who will fight for his soldiers.
3)  I recruited out of Halifax and for the first 4 months I felt like I was bashing my head against a brick wall and that the staff there didn't care if I ever joined.  I finally got in contact with two excellent Sgt's who were quite helpful and my recruiting Captain was phenomenal!  Once you call weekly for almost 10 months you learn who to talk to and who to not talk to.

 

[aesop081]

you learn who to talk to and who to not talk to.

On a related note,

In my experience, some of the folks walking up to the counter or calling.......need to f'ing learn how to politely talk to people.

 

[ltmaverick25]

So we should scrap our grievance system now?

Sometimes injustices are done. Should they be ignored? Would you like to serve in an organization where that happened routinely?

I have been the assisting officer for a number of people who were treated quite shoddily. Their complaints were completely justified. None of them "whined". In most cases, their motivation to complain was to prevent the same thing from happening to others.

Using legitimate means to correct incompetence or abuse is not "whining".

More people should stand up to such incompetence and abuse. We, the CF, and society in general would all be better off for it.

Stop making excuses for incompetents and abusers.

Very well said.  I think unfortunately in the military, we have developed a culture of, "too bad, suck it up and deal with it"...  That attitude may work when someone complains about having to do a field ex in the rain, but it cannot be systemically applied to every situation and unfortunately it all too often is.

 

[benny88]

On a related note,

In my experience, some of the folks walking up to the counter or calling.......need to f'ing learn how to politely talk to people.

Someone who feels my pain! Just 2 months of being a desk jockey at a Recruiting Det has given me the patience of a saint.