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Iran Super Thread- Merged

I don’t disagree with you, Kirkhill, so long as we stipulate that the ‘democracy’ will look something like that which existed in England under Henry VII, 500ish years ago – when the Lords Spiritual still vastly outnumbered the Lords Temporal and the Commons, combined.

If it was good enough for Henry VIII and Elizabeth I then I suppose it’s good enough for whatever medieval thugs emerge as leaders in Afghanistan, Iraq and their neighbours – after the chaos spreads.

‘Democracy’ (liberal or conservative) is a lot more than elections and legislatures.  It depends, at its base, on respect for the rule of law, applied equally to all, governors and governed alike – something which did not come into full flower, anywhere in the world, until New Jersey (1776) in a restricted form and, properly, not until 1894 (South Australia).
 
Agreed Edward - It will be Tudor democracy.  (The Stewart's are a problematic bunch and with any luck at all the middle east can more easily move to Hanoverian democracy (prior to the reform bills)).  At least it would be a landing stage and a point of departure.  Perhaps they can collapse 400 years of history into 4 or 5 decades seeing as how we in the west have set such a sterling example for them to follow.  :)

Chris.
 
My sister in-law has been hired by government over there to “re-educate” hardcore Immans. I asked her the question:

What is fundamentalist Islam opinion on trade Unions? (brought about by certain labour orgs marching side by side with certain ME groups in Canada)


Her response, which I found amusing:

Let's start with the easy one first. If it was first mooted in the bad West, then it is haram. This I think is self evident.

But if we can find some authority in Muslim history that points to a group of a minimum of 3 people (which thereby constitutes a Crowd) approaching either the Prophet or the four Imams or the 4 Caliphs on how to reclaim your stolen dates from your unscrupulous landowners (minimum of two as two's a Company) , then trade unionism is A ok.

Cause then Muslims would have thought about it FIRST.  Collective bargaining can take the form of screaming your demands really loudly in union unison at the Company, or setting it down in writing on parchment, sand or on the back of your hand. One male (or the exact equivalent of 2 and a half women) shall represent the Crowd.
I hope my fatwa has been of assistance to you, young grasshopper. (otherwise I might have to issue another fatwa for not having taken my first fatwa seriously - and let's just say you really DO want to take my first one VERY seriously).

Imamah Toni Von al-Fatty Fatwa
 
Although there is a lot of complaints about the cost of WW IV to the West, VDH suggests that Dar-al-Islam has even less ability to carry the burden of war and is possibly close to cracking under the pressure. We should not forget that "we" havn't mobilized for war the same way we did in the Great War, WW II or the opening rounds of WW III, if anything there is lots of slack in the system and we could bring vastly more resorces to bear if we have the will or desire to do so:

http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson070407.html

July 4, 2007
Our Enemy’s Attrition
Reasons to reexamine the Middle East’s negative prognosis.
by Victor Davis Hanson
National Review Online

The majority opinion is that the occupation in Iraq has been so bungled that the blowback has ruined American efforts at promoting positive change throughout the Middle East.

Perhaps. But for all the justifiable criticism of the Iraqi reconstruction, two truths still remain — the United States is taking an enormous toll on jihadists, and despite the terrible cost in blood and treasure, has not given up on a constitutional government in Iraq.

The Sunni front-line states, who subsidized jihadists and still enjoy our misery in Iraq, are now terrified that these killers, in league with the Iranians, will turn on them. The net result is not just that some Sunnis are helping us in Iraq, but that they are being urged to for the first time by those in the Arab world, who would prefer to see the Iraqi government, rather than the terrorists, succeed. And if Iraq is still a terrible disappointment, Kurdistan is emerging as a success few envisioned, refuting some conventional wisdom about the incompatibility of capitalism and constitutional government with Middle Eastern Islam.

Theocratic Iran is not exactly as “empowered” as is generally alleged, but in the greatest crisis of its miserable existence. As the mullahs up the ante in the region, they could very soon not only lose Iraq, but also their own dictatorship. Trying to oppose the West in Iraq, Lebanon, and the West Bank is taking an enormous financial toll, as is the general isolation from the world community.

With oil prices at an all-time high, Iran can't provide gasoline for its own people, who resent the billions spent instead on Arab terrorists abroad. If oil were to dip from near $70 to $50-55 a barrel, the regime would face abject bankruptcy. For all the criticism of the U.S. position, from the left and right, we have now found the right blend of military determination not to let Teheran go nuclear, combined with economic and political efforts at containment. There is an array of future options — stronger embargoes, blockades, and military strikes on infrastructure — still on the table. The social unrest the mullahs desire in Iraq is starting to spill over the border into their own Iran, and its magnitude and final course are still unpredictable.

Syria for all its terror still can't overthrow the government in Lebanon, but has managed the impossible: Not only does the Arab world seek to isolate it, but France and the United States are cooperating to thwart it in Lebanon. The last thing we want to do is to give its terror industry the legitimacy it craves by sending any more officials over to Damascus.

Hamas is high on victory in Gaza for now, but all it has accomplished is to further concentrate its nexus of terror into one small miserable — and quite vulnerable — locale in the midst of Jordan, Israel, and Egypt, while sacrificing the Palestinians’ greatest advantage: deniability of culpability. It will be harder now for the tired good cop/bad cop excuses, “militant wing,” etc. and all the other justifications for terror that the Palestinians use. Since Hamas bragged that it had routed (it matters less whether true or false) the Palestinian Authority from Gaza, the next barrage of rocket attacks from there, rightly or wrongly, will liberate Israel in its response from the past worries of collateral damage. For all the talk of losing the Lebanon War, it is Iran and Syria, not Israel, that are stuck with billions in reconstruction costs for their battered Shiite pawns on the front lines.

After four years of war and acrimony, things are starting to reach a point of resolution. Both the resources of the United States and its enemies are becoming strained, but so far they are rioting in oil-exporting Iran over gasoline, not we in the U.S. Europe has gravitated more in the last four years to our views than we to theirs, especially in regard to the dangers of radical Islam. Israel lost some of its precious capital of deterrence in the last war, but ultimately the real loser was a bankrupt Iran who lost far more materially than did a far wealthier Israel. Iran unleashed terror in the region, but found its own terrorist credentials no exemption from what it wrought.

Because violence per se is the only narrative from the Middle East, and often editorialized as deriving from U.S. blunders, we are in a state of constant depression. But things are not as bad as they seem and could still turn out far better than anyone might imagine — if we give the gifted Gen. Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker the support and time they need to make the necessary military and diplomatic changes.

©2007 Victor Davis Hanson
 
One of the "baseline" books that I  keep referring to is Ken O'Connor's "Ghost Force" about his time in the SAS and his reckoning that his SAS was out of the game these days.

His SAS was a combination of "Green Ops" as I believe you call the "conventional" military role and what I will call "under the radar" conventional ops.  Small units, militarily equipped, inserted into Operations Other Than War. 

He reckoned that in future people in his business wouldn't be flying around the world with kitbags full of Small Arms and C4.  They would fly in in suits with American Express cards.  If they wanted to take down a refinery they would use their skills to enter undetected, use a locally purchased adjustable wrench to unbolt the appropriate critical gizmo and leave the way they came.  The refinery gets taken down but no one is to blame.  Likewise with power grids.  Slacken off the plug that keeps the cooling oil in the transformer then watch it drip away and the transformer overheats.  Careless maintenance, not an act of war.

Seems likely to result in people being mad at their government rather than the government that dropped the bomb or slapped on the embargo.
 
It seems the Saudis at least are catching up.  Their clock has advanced from 17th Century Scotland to 19th , or maybe even 20th Century Rome.

This from the July 9th Daily Times of Pakistan.

Saudi fatwa on liberalism raises fears of violence

RIYADH: A fatwa issued by a prominent Saudi cleric suggesting liberals are not real Muslims has enflamed debate over reforms in the conservative Islamic state, with self-professed liberals fearing they will be attacked.

Saudi Arabia is one of the few countries that rules by strict application of Islamic law, giving clerics a powerful position in society, but Islamists fear that liberal reformers are gaining ground under the rule of King Abdullah.

Responding to an online request for a fatwa, Sheikh Saleh Al-Fozan said last month, “Calling oneself a liberal Muslim is a contradiction in terms...one should repent before God for such ideas in order to be a real Muslim.”

The fatwa stated that liberal in this context referred to “freedom which is not subject to the bounds of sharia, and which rejects sharia laws, especially concerning women”. “He who wants freedom with only the controls of man-made laws has rebelled against the law of God,” it added. Fozan was recently forced to issue a clarification in Saudi newspaper Al-Riyadh after Islamists hailed the fatwa as a declaration that liberals are infidels. He said pronouncing someone an infidel was a separate issue in Islamic law.

“Radicals say ‘Sheikh Fozan has issued the fatwa and we should act accordingly’, which is a little alarming,” said Hamza Mozainy, a well-known critic of the Saudi system, referring to Islamist websites that welcomed the fatwa. Novelist Turki Al-Hamad, a long-time target of Saudi Islamists, also said the fatwa could lead to violence.

“When they hear ‘liberalism’ they perceive it as a form of moral corruption. They don’t know it’s a whole philosophy concerning freedom of the individual,” Hamad said. “These fatwas are a kind of defence mechanism against this spreading idea.” reuters

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C07%5C09%5Cstory_9-7-2007_pg7_6



Compare this fatwa on Liberalism to an Encyclical of 1832 by Pope Gregory XVI “Mirari Vos” condemning Liberalism and Religious Indifferentism (some call it religious tolerance).  http://www.ewtn.com/library/encyc/g16mirar.htm

And perhaps this of 1931 – Quadragessimo Anno by Pope Pius XI on the 40th anniversary of Leo XIII’s encyclical Rerum Novarum on the Condition of Workers.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11QUADR.HTM
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13rerum.htm

QA-10 “….He (Leo XIII) sought no help from either Liberalism or Socialism, for the one had proved that it was utterly unable to solve the social problem aright, and the other, proposing a remedy far worse than the evil itself,…”

QA-14 “…..it (Rerum Novarum) boldly attacked and overturned the idols of Liberalism…”

QA-27 “…..while the principles of Liberalism were tottering, which had long prevented effective action by those governing the State…”

And for a slight change of pace but in a similar vein:

QA-120 “…..Religious socialism, Christian socialism, are contradictory terms; no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist.” (you also couldn't be a good Catholic and a Communist or Liberal - funny how times change).


Before I start getting hate mail from the Catholics around here I note that that was then and this is now.
The Catholic Church, and the Protestant States, has moved on a lot since 1931.  We can only hope that the Islamic community moves faster seeing that they have working models to strive for.

Liberalism in all of the above Encyclicals, Bulls and Fatwas is understood in terms that John Stuart Mill would have recognized, not the modern sense of socialism-lite.
 
A-majoor
Good points, not to forget that AQ is now asking Muslims to attack Iran for it’s involvement in Iraq, Hardcore Islamist in the NWF are now turning their attention openly against Islamabad over the Red Mosque, I suspect they feel they must revenge this or lose face.

I also wonder if the rather strong French contingent of the UNFIL will move to a more of a expeditionary force aligned with the present Lebanese government going by the comments of the new French president who seems to be making the protection of Lebanon a priority. This backing might give the Lebanese government enough time to ramp up their forces into an effective fighting machine able to match Hezbollah and other internal threats. I also wonder what would happen if Lebanon expelled the Palestinians or set much lower refuge levels in order to rid themselves of the headache. 

With any luck we might be able to sit back and  :pop:
while our enemies kill each other.
 
Colin P said:
With any luck we might be able to sit back and  :pop:
while our enemies kill each other.

I am opposed to the "vulture" strategy (let them kill each other then we swoop in and feast on the remains). There are several reasons to remain engaged (althought we don't have to be engaged in the ways we are now; read some of Kirkhill's posts on establishing cantonments and fostering social and governmental changes).

1. The eventual winner in an inter Islamic war will be very smart, agressive and powerful through Darwinian selection. I'd rather not be dealing with packs of Raptors when I have enough trouble with a "ball of snakes".

2. In the drive to crush their domestic and easy to reach enemies (i.e. Israel, secular Turkey, the defacto nation of Kurdistan, "apostate" co religionists), the various sides will escalate, and there seems no limits to what they will do. Gaining and using nuclear weapons will be part of that, and that is the one thing we cannot allow. (once they cross the nuclear threshhold against Isreal, what is to stop them from going after Kashmir or Paris next?)

3. We and our children will need to deal with Dar-al-Islam, so we have a stake in guiding the outcome to something acceptable to us. This means a respect for the Rule of Law as a minimmum. Human rights and consensual governments are to be desired, but as Edward always reminds us, these may take forms we are not familier with or might not like too much. Singapore, with its tough law and order approach (flogging people who spit gum on the sidewalks) and seeming hereditary elected government comes to mind as one possible example.

We need a combination of steadfast resolve to contain and moderate the implosion inside Dar-al-Islam, and also be prepared to move in and assist in the rebuilding and reworking of these societies when the time comes.
 
No prognostications on Friday the 13th.  Not that I am superstitious.

Just really interesting that after taking down this Red Mosque, virtually next door neighbour to Musharraf, and new incursions planned into Taliban strongholds of Swat and Waziristan that bombings and attacks are down and that the largest Mob they could find to count was 1200 in Karachi and 200 in Quetta.

It'll be interesting to see what activity level in Afghanistan is like in the near future.

I wonder what the trigger was?  Chinese workers being killed?  Or Musharraf being shot at one too many times?

An apparent lack of Chaos.


Friday, July 13, 2007

Security tight in Pakistan after mosque siege; protests smaller than expected

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Thousands of soldiers rolled across northwestern Pakistan on Friday, a day after President Gen. Pervez Musharraf vowed to follow the storming of Islamabad's Red Mosque by eliminating extremism from "every corner" of the country.

Anti-Musharraf protesters took to the streets of every major city to blame the U.S.-backed leader for the violence at the mosque, some chanting slogans in favour of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.

But the rallies were smaller than expected, and there was a lull in the violent backlash from militant groups that had staged suicide bombings and attacks on foreign aid groups in reaction to the mosque siege.

Officials said thousands of soldiers were deploying to various parts of North West Frontier Province, which borders Afghanistan and where militant groups are increasingly active.

An army brigade was heading up the Swat Valley, 120 kilometres northeast of Peshawar, where a suicide car bomber killed three policeman at a checkpoint Thursday, said Mohammed Javed, the valley's top administrator.

That attack raised to 35 the number of people killed in bombings and shootings in the northwest since the Red Mosque crisis began July 3.

Television footage showed army trucks, some pulling heavy artillery, lined up on a road in the area.

The Swat Valley is a stronghold of a radical cleric who has pressed for the imposition of Taliban-style rule, much like the leaders of the Red Mosque.

Maulana Fazlullah, who has close links to a militant group outlawed for sending followers to fight U.S. troops in Afghanistan in 2001, reportedly told supporters to prepare for holy war in response to the battle in the capital.


Asif Iqbal Daudzai, spokesman for the provincial government, said Fazlullah had broken an agreement to stop using FM radio broadcasts for anti-government agitation. If he does so again, security forces "will react," Daudzai told Dawn News television.

Troops were also sent to Dera Ismail Khan, a town near the tribally governed Waziristan border region, a Taliban stronghold where Washington says al-Qaida is regrouping.

Police said they raided a house in Dera Ismail Khan on Friday, arresting three suspected suicide bombers and seizing five explosives vests.

The military said it also deployed soldiers near Battagram, a northern town badly affected by a 2005 earthquake. According to aid workers and media reports, mobs broke off from a Thursday protest against the Red Mosque raid to loot and set fire to the offices of several international aid groups.

"Extremism and terrorism will be defeated in every corner of the country," Musharraf said. Madrassas, or religious schools, like the Red Mosque that inculcate violence among students will not be tolerated, he said.

More than 1,200 people chanted slogans denouncing Musharraf after they emerged from mosques following afternoon prayers in Karachi, the country's largest city.

In Quetta, about 200 protesters chanted "Long live Osama!" and "Long live Taliban!" as well as anti-Musharraf slogans. "It is an insult to dogs to call Musharraf a dog," one man shouted out.

Small rallies were also held in Rawalpindi, Lahore, Peshawar and Islamabad.

© The Canadian Press, 2007

http://www.mytelus.com/ncp_news/article.en.do?pn=home&articleID=2720548
 
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s National Post, is columnist Jonathan Kay’s take on the Islamic civil war and the vulture strategy:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/columnists/story.html?id=9615ee8a-b3dc-4668-9ab0-fa05a0be5769
Managing Islam's civil war

Jonathan Kay, National Post

Published: Tuesday, July 17, 2007

Less than six years after 9/11, the great Clash of Civilizations has fizzled out. It's been replaced by a civil war within a single civilization. Consider these news events from recent weeks, and the pattern becomes clear: - In Pakistan, government troops laid bloody siege to the Red Mosque in the centre of Islamabad, precipitating a string of retaliatory suicide bombings in other parts of the country. On Wednesday, Ayman al-Zawahri, al-Qaeda's second-in-command, urged revenge against Pakistan's government. ("This crime can only be washed by repentance or blood.")A secret Pakistani interior ministry document recently disclosed by The New York Times warns that Islamist insurgents in the country's northwest tribal areas -- the same ones fuelling the civil war in Afghanistan--may soon threaten Pakistan's central government.

- In Gaza, Islamists loyal to Hamas decisively routed Fatah, the once-unrivalled Palestinian movement founded by Yasser Arafat. Fatah-affiliated President Mahmoud Abbas described Hamas as "terrorists" (a word familiar to us, but taboo within Palestinian society -- until now).

- In Lebanon, government troops waged war on remnants of the extremist Islamist group Fatah al-Islam in the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp. The country's governing coalition is also confronting an ongoing political challenge from Iranian-sponsored Islamist terrorist group Hezbollah.

- In Iraq, sectarian killings between Shiite and Sunni death squads continue apace. Last week, more than 100 people were killed when a jihadi-driven truck filled with tons of explosives blew up in the town of Amirli, in a region claimed by both Arab and Kurdish Muslims. Meanwhile, American troops are waging war against al-Qaeda-linked death squads, fighting in collaboration with Sunni sheikhs who, until recently, were considered terrorists themselves.

- In Iran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, a hard-line theocrat who is seeking to summon Shiite Islam's "12th Imam" from his ethereal slumber, is facing mounting criticism from disenchanted citizens amidst a brutal state campaign to enforce Sharia law --including the death by stoning of adulterers.

- In Somalia, a grenade attack against soldiers loyal to the Ethiopian-backed interim government prompted troops to open fire on civilians. The army has since closed down Mogadishu's main market and is rooting out the Islamist insurgents that infest it.

- In Algeria, which this month hosted the Africa Games, a suicide bomber blew up a refrigerator truck full of explosives outside a military post, killing 10. Al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb claimed responsibility.

Everywhere, the basic plot is the same: traditional Muslim sheiks and autocrats battling with murderous jihadis for control of Muslim lands. In each case, it is Muslims themselves -- not Western soldiers or politicians -- who will decide the outcome.

Of course, Muslims are still trying to blow up infidels in London and Glasgow, not to mention Tel Aviv, Kashmir and a hundred other places. But with every passing month, Muslim violence becomes more self-directed. By the time Iran gets its Shiite Bomb, Wahhabist Saudi Arabia may be as much at risk as Israel.

In an obvious sense, this is good news for the West. But the trend also means that we are losing our ability to shape events. After 9/11, George W. Bush and his international supporters were swept up in a grand Wilsonian project to revamp the political culture of the Muslim world. But six years later, we're largely back on the sidelines, feebly exhorting our chosen autocrats -- Pervez Musharraf, Mahmoud Abbas, Fouad Siniora, Nouri al-Maliki, King Hussein, Hosni Mubarak, King Abdullah -- to "do more to fight terrorism." Without realizing it, we have gone from realists to democratic utopians back to realists again.

The trend will be hard to reverse. In democracies, voters support wars when they see clear, morally compelling arguments for waging them. That wasn't a problem when the stakes were credibly cast as between good and evil. But the war now is murkier. Most of the Muslim leaders we now are supporting are not democratic folk heroes, but compromised autocrats. Even Afghan President Hamid Karzai, by all accounts a decent fellow, is beholden to drug dealers and local warlords to maintain power.

These men are a lot saner than the Islamists they're fighting, of course. But in the long run, Western voters won't risk the lives of their sons and daughters to prop up a lesser evil fighting one side of an alien, often barbaric civil war.

jkay@nationalpost.com

© National Post 2007

I am less worried about the Darwinian natural selection process which a_majoor fears will give us a bigger, better enemy – still hell bent on our destruction.  My read of the Thirty Years War (which is my analog to what’s going on, now, in and around the Middle East) is that the victors were not emboldened to wreak havoc on their neighbours.  They were, rather, more interested in reforming their own internal affairs and rebuilding their shattered economies.

I think Kay is telling us the truth, here: “Western voters won't risk the lives of their sons and daughters to prop up a lesser evil fighting one side of an alien, often barbaric civil war.”  As he said, even though he was properly, fairly and democratically elected, President Karzai is seen as being very much a lesser evil.



 
interesting article....I agree, probably a pretty good read on the situation....
 
By the time Iran gets its Shiite Bomb, Wahhabist Saudi Arabia may be as much at risk as Israel.

I think that the Arab League has already come to that conclusion.  In fact that was the probably the driver behind Abu Mousr's comment in 2004 or thereabouts that "the gates of He*ll were now open" as a result of the US intervention in Iraq.  It has just taken them a long time to figure out on which side their bread was buttered.

Accepting E.R.'s 30 years wars analogy,  which I do whole-heartedly, the outcome of that conflict (which actually started in 1525 with "Major Operations" concluding in 1815) was the establishment of those Westfalian boundaries that the EU is so desperate to erase.

It also resulted in the pirates and shopkeepers of the north, without moral principles to overly burden them, creating the greatest trading empires of all time (Brits, Dutch and to a lesser extent Danes). 

So, if the voters won't permit government intervention, will they turn their attention back to hockey and beer and permit the establishment of commercial colonies defended by PSCs that are subject to the same laws as the Canadian Forces?

I believe that China is already moving down that road, that Russia is heading down that road with Gazprom and that many multi-nationals operating in the third world and latin america have been operating on that principle for some time.

Historical Actors in the relevant post-Westfalian period include the Dutch East India Company, the Danish East India Company, the Honourable East India Company, the Virginia Company and our own Hudson's Bay Company.  All of whom had their own private armies and navies and fortified settlements.  The Hudson's Bay Company started with Fort Nelson in 1670s and locally we have Fort Langley here from the 1850s.  And it should be remembered that Port Royal and Quebec were both established as fortified trading settlements by armed traders.

I do expect though that the transition of Dar-al-Islam towards enlightened toleration will be a lot speedier than ours was.  We no longer see a need to fight for immutable principles.  Both we and arab traders have that in common.  Principles are bad for business.

 
What does everyone make of this Pakistan vs Taliban thing?
 
HighlandFusilier said:
What does everyone make of this Pakistan vs Taliban thing?

It is a case of the monster slipping off the leash and out of control. Pakistan, or at least elements of the ISI always supported "fundimentalist" warlords in Afghanistan, even back in the 1980's against the USSR. The primary driver for this was Afghanistan was a fairly moderate state with friendly ties to Pakistan's arch rival India, and the secondary reason was Afghan politicians would occasionally suggest the Durrand line be erased so the Pushtan people on the "other side" could rejoin Afghanistan (Pakistani politicians feel the same way, only in the other direction).

The Taliban were a post war organization (if they can be called that), and the ISI seems to have chosen them for special favor because the Muhajadeen warlords were too independent for the ISI's liking. Since the Afghan people in general are very independent minded, it should have occured to the ISI that the Taliban would go the way of the other groups.

Now the Taliban have access to drug money, international money and information flowing inito Wahhabi Madrassas, Iranian weapons and IED technology, and foreign "fighters", so thier need for ISI support is diminished and the radical Wahhabi Islam they follow is hostile to much of what Pakistan stands for, so the Taliban are lashing out against preceived enemies in all directions. Pakistan must now fight to prevent the Taliban from destabilizing their own state, rather than worry about destabilizing Afghanistan.
 
What does everyone make of this Pakistan vs Taliban thing?

Musharaff is off the fence - and the Taliban have an "eastern front".
Escalation isn't always a bad thing....... >:D

What would be best for the west is if somewhat moderate muslim
groups step into the breach.  This seems to be happening.
 
Russia blames late payments for Iran reactor delay
Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:57PM IST By Afet Mehtiyeva
Article Link

BAKU (Reuters) - Moscow has delayed the start-up of Iran's first nuclear power station to 2008 because Tehran has fallen behind with payments for the Bushehr plant, a top Russian official said on Thursday.

The timing of the plant's start-up is significant as it is viewed by Israel and the United States as an important element in a nuclear drive which they suspect is a front for developing nuclear weapons. Iran says the programme is entirely peaceful.

Russia has repeatedly delayed the plant which under the latest schedule was due to be started up in September 2007. A Russian sub-contractor said on Wednesday the plant, in southwest Iran, had no chance of being launched before autumn 2008.

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Kislyak said in Baku that Tehran was still behind in payments for the plant and that the delay was not political.

"It will clearly not be possible to start-up the atomic station this year so it will be moved to the next year," Kislyak told reporters, citing the payment problems.

"We are fully determined to take Bushehr to its logical conclusion and launch the atomic power station," he said.

The Itar-Tass news agency earlier reported Kislyak had said Bushehr would be inaugurated in early 2008.
More on link
 
Mark Styen is at it again; an Islamic counteroffensive using our tools as weapons against the free exchange of ideas (especially about Islam and Islamic radicalism):

http://www.bloggingtories.ca/btFrameset.php?URL=http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/006777.html&TITLE=Sued%20Into%20Silence

Sued Into Silence

Mark Steyn;

    The war will be lost incrementally because we are unable to reverse the ongoing radicalization of Muslim populations in South Asia, Indonesia, the Balkans, Western Europe and, yes, North America. And who's behind that radicalization? Who funds the mosques and Islamic centers that in the past 30 years have set up shop on just about every Main Street around the planet?

    For the answer, let us turn to a fascinating book called "Alms for Jihad: Charity And Terrorism in the Islamic World," by J. Millard Burr, a former USAID relief coordinator, and the scholar Robert O Collins. Can't find it in your local Barnes & Noble? Never mind, let's go to Amazon. Everything's available there. And sure enough, you'll come through to the "Alms for Jihad" page and find a smattering of approving reviews from respectably torpid publications: "The most comprehensive look at the web of Islamic charities that have financed conflicts all around the world," according to Canada's Globe And Mail, which is like the New York Times but without the jokes.

    Unfortunately, if you then try to buy "Alms for Jihad," you discover that the book is "Currently unavailable. We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock." Hang on, it was only published last year. At Amazon, items are either shipped within 24 hours or, if a little more specialized, within four to six weeks, but not many books from 2006 are entirely unavailable with no restock in sight.

    Well, let us cross the ocean, thousands of miles from the Amazon warehouse, to the High Court in London. Last week, the Cambridge University Press agreed to recall all unsold copies of "Alms for Jihad" and pulp them. In addition, it has asked hundreds of libraries around the world to remove the volume from their shelves. This highly unusual action was accompanied by a letter to Sheikh Khalid bin Mahfouz, in care of his English lawyers, explaining their reasons...

Counterterrorism Blog;

    Two news flashes on August 1, 2007. First, the lawyers representing the so-called Flying Imams in their lawsuit against US Airways announced that they were not going after the unnamed passengers whose concerns prompted the men to be pulled off the Arizona-bound flight (here). I suppose that is good to know, now that the long-term policy implications of their lawsuit are about to justify (literally) an act of Congress. Second, Cambridge University Press announced that it was going to destroy all copies of the 2006 book Alms for Jihad: Charity and Terrorism in the Islamic World, in response to a libel claim filed in England by Khalid bin Mahfouz, a Saudi banker (here).

    Connected? Absolutely.


Read them both.
 
Interesting article. Could the US destroy Iran's military in 3 days ? Yes and no. I believe any air campaign would focus on the nuclear sites and the IRG and security forces. If the IRG and security forces were seen to be seriously degraded ,this might encourage the regular army to stage a coup. In any event this would seriously weaken the regime. If we wanted to destroy the entire military capability of Iran it would take weeks. Destroying Iran's ability to refine gasoline and follow that up with an embargo would be devestating. The USAF and USN are not overstretched by Afghanistan and Iraq. Attacking Iran is a political decision though and one that is not easy for Bush and once embarked on must show success.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2369001.ece

Pentagon ‘three-day blitz’ plan for Iran

Sarah Baxter, Washington

THE Pentagon has drawn up plans for massive airstrikes against 1,200 targets in Iran, designed to annihilate the Iranians’ military capability in three days, according to a national security expert.

Alexis Debat, director of terrorism and national security at the Nixon Center, said last week that US military planners were not preparing for “pinprick strikes” against Iran’s nuclear facilities. “They’re about taking out the entire Iranian military,” he said.

Debat was speaking at a meeting organised by The National Interest, a conservative foreign policy journal. He told The Sunday Times that the US military had concluded: “Whether you go for pinprick strikes or all-out military action, the reaction from the Iranians will be the same.” It was, he added, a “very legitimate strategic calculus”.

President George Bush intensified the rhetoric against Iran last week, accusing Tehran of putting the Middle East “under the shadow of a nuclear holocaust”. He warned that the US and its allies would confront Iran “before it is too late”.

One Washington source said the “temperature was rising” inside the administration. Bush was “sending a message to a number of audiences”, he said � to the Iranians and to members of the United Nations security council who are trying to weaken a tough third resolution on sanctions against Iran for flouting a UN ban on uranium enrichment.

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) last week reported “significant” cooperation with Iran over its nuclear programme and said that uranium enrichment had slowed. Tehran has promised to answer most questions from the agency by November, but Washington fears it is stalling to prevent further sanctions. Iran continues to maintain it is merely developing civilian nuclear power.

Bush is committed for now to the diplomatic route but thinks Iran is moving towards acquiring a nuclear weapon. According to one well placed source, Washington believes it would be prudent to use rapid, overwhelming force, should military action become necessary.

Israel, which has warned it will not allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons, has made its own preparations for airstrikes and is said to be ready to attack if the Americans back down.

Alireza Jafarzadeh, a spokesman for the National Council of Resistance of Iran, which uncovered the existence of Iran’s uranium enrichment plant at Natanz, said the IAEA was being strung along. “A number of nuclear sites have not even been visited by the IAEA,” he said. “They’re giving a clean bill of health to a regime that is known to have practised deception.”

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, irritated the Bush administration last week by vowing to fill a “power vacuum” in Iraq. But Washington believes Iran is already fighting a proxy war with the Americans in Iraq.

The Institute for the Study of War last week released a report by Kimberly Kagan that explicitly uses the term “proxy war” and claims that with the Sunni insurgency and Al-Qaeda in Iraq “increasingly under control”, Iranian intervention is the “next major problem the coalition must tackle”.

Bush noted that the number of attacks on US bases and troops by Iranian-supplied munitions had increased in recent months � “despite pledges by Iran to help stabilise the security situation in Iraq”.

It explains, in part, his lack of faith in diplomacy with the Iranians. But Debat believes the Pentagon’s plans for military action involve the use of so much force that they are unlikely to be used and would seriously stretch resources in Afghanistan and Iraq.
 
Hmmmm,

Will it come sooner - like when the "surge report" comes out this month,
Or later - like just before GWB leaves office?



 
Whats Bush got to do with it? Do I sense a bit of an anti-Bush agenda here?

Like it or not, the problem in Iran is simmering, but sooner or later it will boil over, and whoever is in the US President's chair at the time will have make a decision. Republican or Democrat regardless.

...And what about the surge report?

Do tell us what you know about Iraq and the surge, besides what you see on a one sided media report

Wes
 
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