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Iran Super Thread- Merged

I think the only thing that would dislodge the Khomeinists would have been a full scale invasion that would dwarf the invasion of Iraq, with allies. They have solid institutions that go beyond the personalities, especially since the death of the first ayatollah. The institutions of the Islamic Republic need to be uprooted and destroyed. Only a full invasion or large armed popular revolution would come close to accomplishing that.

No western leader would commit to that, especially after the debacle in Iraq.
 
I think the only thing that would dislodge the Khomeinists would have been a full scale invasion that would dwarf the invasion of Iraq, with allies. They have solid institutions that go beyond the personalities, especially since the death of the first ayatollah. The institutions of the Islamic Republic need to be uprooted and destroyed. Only a full invasion or large armed popular revolution would come close to accomplishing that.

No western leader would commit to that, especially after the debacle in Iraq.

So far ...
 
I think the only thing that would dislodge the Khomeinists would have been a full scale invasion that would dwarf the invasion of Iraq, with allies. They have solid institutions that go beyond the personalities, especially since the death of the first ayatollah. The institutions of the Islamic Republic need to be uprooted and destroyed. Only a full invasion or large armed popular revolution would come close to accomplishing that.

No western leader would commit to that, especially after the debacle in Iraq.

I'm not sure it's that impossible either. Let's not forget, they are so scared of their own people, they considered moving the capital away from Tehran and building a brand new city in the desert. Some kind of maximum pressure sanctions campaign stopping oil. And maybe even some kind of persistent mow the lawn strategy against their missile and nuclear programs might well have worked. But it would require a lot of work to get the Arabs onside and sustained effort over years. Not sure the Americans (least of all Trump) has that kind of patience.

But it's highly likely that they wouldn't have triggered a Strait crisis if they were facing harsh sanctions enforcement. It was probably the attempted decapitation that got them playing for broke.

I also think the IRGC aren't morons. They saw the SPR, the lack of minesweepers and Air Defence and probably decided this was right time to play the maximalist card. They probably can't believe their luck in Tehran.
 
At this point arming the people is likley the best option, they don't need to much high tech, rifles, grenades, ammunition and RPG's, throw in some DJI drones as well.
 
At this point arming the people is likley the best option, they don't need to much high tech, rifles, grenades, ammunition and RPG's, throw in some DJI drones as well.

It depends who you arm. Talking about arming the Kurds and Balochis literally triggered centuries old anxiety about Balkanization in every Iranian. They gotta find like some ethnic Persians and train them. That's going to be a long project. Something like that they did in Afghanistan against the Soviets. But also, we know how that went too.....
 
After having 30,000 of their mates slaughtered and dodging American/Israeli ordinance, I’m guessing revolutionary fervor has cooled for a while. The regime has shown it will take more than wiping out the entire leadership to back down.
 
At this point arming the people is likley the best option, they don't need to much high tech, rifles, grenades, ammunition and RPG's, throw in some DJI drones as well.
To a population that is now galvanized against U.S. strikes on their homeland?

The Iranian people have made it clear in previous reports that they view the Regime and the U.S. through the same lense, and see nothing but ugliness.

The strikes and their associated civilian casualties have created a new generation of "Death to America" chanters, vice a population that was struggling to be pacified.
 
To a population that is now galvanized against U.S. strikes on their homeland?

The Iranian people have made it clear in previous reports that they view the Regime and the U.S. through the same lense, and see nothing but ugliness.

The strikes and their associated civilian casualties have created a new generation of "Death to America" chanters, vice a population that was struggling to be pacified.
I mean, yeah, shit’s gonna happen in war… But right at the start they smoked a girls’ elementary school and killed some 100+ kids. “We’re here to help” will be a tough sell when that’s the start point. Trump told Iranians help was coming, but then just hung out for a couple weeks, and then has not clearly made regime change a war aim. I don’t think many Iranians will be dumb enough to rise up on an assumption of U.S. help through to the end game.
 
It depends who you arm. Talking about arming the Kurds and Balochis literally triggered centuries old anxiety about Balkanization in every Iranian. They gotta find like some ethnic Persians and train them. That's going to be a long project. Something like that they did in Afghanistan against the Soviets. But also, we know how that went too.....
I suspect the Kurds can get small arms already, not sure about the Balochs. There is already a network formed/forming of ethnic Persians, the questions remains to how best get them arms. Airdrop likley.
 
To a population that is now galvanized against U.S. strikes on their homeland?

The Iranian people have made it clear in previous reports that they view the Regime and the U.S. through the same lense, and see nothing but ugliness.

The strikes and their associated civilian casualties have created a new generation of "Death to America" chanters, vice a population that was struggling to be pacified.
The majority of videos I see are people inside Iran cheering the strikes, the majority wants to see the regime gone and have already paid in blood during the street protests. The 50,000 killed in a few days by the regime does not count the ones arrested or disappeared, which likley adds another 50,000.
 
A month late, but a sign this is probably going to go on for much longer than they expected.

March 22, 2026 - The Department of State advises Americans worldwide to exercise increased caution.

Location: Worldwide

Event: The Department of State advises Americans worldwide, and especially in the Middle East, to exercise increased caution. Americans abroad should follow the guidance in security alerts issued by the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate. Periodic airspace closures may cause travel disruptions. U.S. diplomatic facilities, including outside the Middle East, have been targeted. Groups supportive of Iran may target other U.S. interests overseas or locations associated with the United States and/or Americans throughout the world.

 
You know from other discussions that I greatly value your strategic insight, so I say the following with nothing but respect and out of an interest to intellectually engage with this.

The biggest problem with this take is that it requires taking at face value the statements of senior officials of a post-credibility administration nearly three weeks into a war that they never clearly stated up front the purpose nor objectives of. They did not attempt to articulate clear objectives from day one, or at least early on; no clear and objective case was made to Congress nor to the American people writ large. Whatever Trump’s initial objectives are, no claim was staked and so he cannot be held to them. No metrics or success were stated nor can be inferred. @ytz beat me to my intended use of the term retcon; whatever Trump initially wanted or intended, by the time Hegseth and Caine spoke, they could massage their message based on the reality of that date- again. Early three weeks in, after a lot has seemingly gone poorly.

The objectives stated by Hegseth and Caine are rational. They are what I would have expected on day one. They don’t match what the administration is currently saying or doing, though. By the date of that interview the flow of trade and the preservation of Gulf economic infrastructure were clearly dominant factors in this conflict, but they are unstated and unaddressed. The most generous interpretation is that we’re getting the February 28th intent on March 19th, without accounting for any of what has happened in between. More likely we’re seeing the adults in the room taking their best stab at an ex post facto justification of what was probably supposed to be a quick in and out with a regime collapse.

Regarding the three additional political objectives you referenced:

1. Iran is, if anything, driven further to China’s bosom than they were before… And that was already a lot. Watch for China to fund reconstruction and redevelopment on terms that are seemingly generous up front but that further bind Iran to them in trade flows. China will also be milking this war for every possible lesson learned about how to defeat American air defense and standoff weapons. China (and probably Russia) will help Iran rebuild itself as a regional foil to America’s reasserted imperialism. China is likely happy to keep this thing rolling so that American produced (not just their own, but inclusive of those they’ll be pressured to replace) interceptor stocks are further depleted.

2. The notion that this will ‘eliminate’ Iran as an enemy of the U.S. is, without a regime change that is both succesful and facourable, frankly farcical. They will now be more pissed off and more determined to develop and possess the means to resist US hegemony. Their proxies are currently largely neutered, but they’ll rebuild. The Iranian regime appears resilient, and regime change is not one of the states at aims, nor do U.S. actions paint a picture of that as a covert intent. The regime seems here to stay. They will remain an enemy, and will be generationally refreshed as such.

3. Without the aforementioned regime change, the US will have no additional control over crude oil production, save for perhaps being able to cause some supply destruction. They can put a hand on the taps of more distribution. Will they have the cojones to stare China down and choke off more of their supply? Not sure. China has extremely potent levers they can pull… Word on the street is the U.S. may have a sudden and significant need to replenish a lot of munitions that require certain critical minerals that they need to buy from China for a few years yet. China is powerful enough that they don’t need to tolerate the U.S. choking off their Iranian oil supply, they’ve clearly made a deal with Iran to allow their supplies through, and the U.S. seems loath to intercept any of these sanction China-destined tankers at sea. China seems to have enough cards to make a hand.

I can’t and won’t speak to whether any particular nation or government or personality has undue influence over Trump and urged him to this course of action. Whatever led him to be convinced to this war, it seems very likely now that he blundered. He thought he was getting something clean and quick… He’s gotten something more different than that with each day that passes.

And it sucks, because the Iranian regime is evil. If this was going to be done, it needed to be done right so it could be decisive and effective. A pragmatic decision to go after Iran should have come with all the proper planning and prep - and the casualty acceptance - to make sure the Iranian regime as we know it would cease to be, and that a viable and tolerable alternative would be put in place. Sadly the ‘week after’ seems to be an afterthought…

It is often a mistake to not consider that people say what they mean. In most cases, they often do. CENTCOM is clearly executing a campaign plan. The President spoke to this in the very first days of the conflict, mentioning that the war was intended to last four to five weeks. I have zero doubt that defeating an Iranian effort to block the Straits is part of this campaign plan, and that US strikes now are working down target lists to write down the Iranian threat to convoy operations which the campaign will most certainly transition towards. Finally, based on what we've seen CENTCOM striking in its info releases, I see no reason to doubt the veracity of that list or that it has remained consistent through the first 3 weeks of this war - the US has been striking military targets to support those strategic objectives (the regime decapitation strikes and civilian targets appear to be the work of the Israelis).

All that is to say is I have no reason to disbelieve that CENTCOM and the Chairman had a coherent campaign plan and that they are working through that plan. Nothing to me indicates that they are flailing about because the regime didn't fall after day 1. They have spoken to phasing and they are clearly working towards something militarily.

That said this are military strategic objectives, and not political objectives (which lead to the political aim), and military effects don't always translate to political ends. I sense the US military operation is proceeding according to plan, but that the US Administration is having trouble managing the political execution of the war because it failed to adequately build domestic consensus (especially with a MAGA base that voted for Trump on the premise that he would avoid a war in Iran), it failed to seek a coalition (who needs cowards?), and therefore appears to on the backfoot in the information domain in addressing the two foreseeable Iranian responses to the attack (attacking Gulf States, which it also did last year, and closing the Strait). I also suspect the Administration is waiting to find a regime leadership element that will be willing to negotiate (the IGRC's Delsey Rodriguez) but this may not be coming anytime soon.

Put simply, it's having narrative problems. If the regime studders and collapses over the next few weeks or its offensive capacity is reduced to an acceptable level, then the narrative problems may self-correct. But right now, nobody on Army.ca or anywhere else knows if either of these will or won't happen.

The other challenge I forsee, going back to the level of the campaign, is that the plan itself may be flawed. From what I can surmise, the military plan appears predicated on the belief that air power alone can impose the effects to achieve those strategic objectives. I am skeptical of this. Any one planning an air campaign has probably read John Warden, but they should probably read Robert Pape. Pape describes four types of air strategies (1) punishment (aimed at civilian populace); (2) risk (threat of escalating punishment); (3) denial (reducing military capacity); or (4) decapitation (eliminating political/military decision making). Pape argues that history demonstrates that 1, 2 and 4 don't have a proven track record, and that 3 can work, but with land power to follow up and secure the gains. Clearly, the US are trying a type (3) strategy, but with no land power, while the Israeli's are aiming at a type (4) strategy.

To me, this means the campaign is banking on being able to exhaust the Iranians before political, economic, and logistical factors exhaust the US (or the President). When you consider that NATO bombed Serbia for 78 days in 1999, and that Serbia was 1/20 the size of Iran, then you get a sense of the challenge this end state may present to the US.
 
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