Iran Super Thread- Merged

[PuckChaser]

Or after years of soft, cushy deployments, the ship crews are completely unprepared for major combat operations and the hardship that comes with them which is a USN leadership not political problem. Expecting 0 mental health issues on a 9 month deployment shows me the folks that have never deployed for that period of time before without a break.

 

[YZT580]

Apparently mental health issues are just health issues and what they really need to do is exercise more. ...
That supposedly is what one ships crew in the Gulf was told by a senior CentCom officer.
Floggings will continue until morale improves.
I'm starting to wonder if tone deaf somehow, became part of the job description.

and those poor bastards volunteered. I wonder how many will re-muster when their time is up

 

[Nvlgzr]

Apparently mental health issues are just health issues and what they really need to do is exercise more. ...
That supposedly is what one ships crew in the Gulf was told by a senior CentCom officer.
Floggings will continue until morale improves.
I'm starting to wonder if tone deaf somehow, became part of the job description.

Pete needs to go on a long deployment to show them how ‘real men’ do it.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Or after years of soft, cushy deployments, the ship crews are completely unprepared for major combat operations and the hardship that comes with them which is a USN leadership not political problem. Expecting 0 mental health issues on a 9 month deployment shows me the folks that have never deployed for that period of time before without a break.

Welcome to the Suck

“We came to realise - first with astonishment, then bitterness, and finally with indifference - that intellect apparently wasn't the most important thing...not ideas, but the system; not freedom, but drill. We had joined up with enthusiasm and with good will; but they did everything to knock that out of us.”

― Erich Maria Remarque

 

[Eaglelord17]

Or after years of soft, cushy deployments, the ship crews are completely unprepared for major combat operations and the hardship that comes with them which is a USN leadership not political problem. Expecting 0 mental health issues on a 9 month deployment shows me the folks that have never deployed for that period of time before without a break.

Or this is a exceptional circumstance which is novel in both length and potential stresses on it’s crew.

They have done 241 days purely at sea in a row with no port visits, most of them in a active warzone. The previous record for days at sea without a port visit for a US carrier was 206 days, not in any warzone, so this is shattering that record by over a month.

On top of that they have had major logical issues resulting in extreme rationing at various points, which is exceptionally miserable.

There is hardship and then there is pushing people past their breaking point. Army units even in active combat are rotated out of the frontlines for breaks periodically as you can’t just keep pushing people and expecting them not to break.

Saying this is just because of being used to ‘soft cushy deployments’ does a disservice to those service members.

 

[Gordon Dundas/]

Or this is a exceptional circumstance which is novel in both length and potential stresses on it’s crew.

They have done 241 days purely at sea in a row with no port visits, most of them in a active warzone. The previous record for days at sea without a port visit for a US carrier was 206 days, not in any warzone, so this is shattering that record by over a month.

On top of that they have had major logical issues resulting in extreme rationing at various points, which is exceptionally miserable.

There is hardship and then there is pushing people past their breaking point. Army units even in active combat are rotated out of the frontlines for breaks periodically as you can’t just keep pushing people and expecting them not to break.

Saying this is just because of being used to ‘soft cushy deployments’ does a disservice to those service members.

Well said.

 

[PuckChaser]

Or this is a exceptional circumstance which is novel in both length and potential stresses on it’s crew.

They have done 241 days purely at sea in a row with no port visits, most of them in a active warzone. The previous record for days at sea without a port visit for a US carrier was 206 days, not in any warzone, so this is shattering that record by over a month.

Yes, that's an exceptional circumstance. Expecting a port call every 30 days has created a culture to expect that during combat operations. It's not realistic and it's a symptom of a peacetime deployment structure.

On top of that they have had major logical issues resulting in extreme rationing at various points, which is exceptionally miserable.

I don't have a ton of sympathy for folks having to eat rations a few days because they needed a fresh food resup. This is grasping at straws to manufacture outrage.

There is hardship and then there is pushing people past their breaking point. Army units even in active combat are rotated out of the frontlines for breaks periodically as you can’t just keep pushing people and expecting them not to break.

This is a bad analogy. Unless they've sat at general quarters for the last 240+ days it's not remotely the same thing. That's not looking down on 240+ days of continuous heavy flight operations which would put a toll on anyone's body and mental health but it's apples to oranges.

Saying this is just because of being used to ‘soft cushy deployments’ does a disservice to those service members.

See line 1, folks are used to peacetime structure where they get to get off the ship. The sky is not falling here, it's just real people experiencing combat operations for an abnormal period of time. It's also something they'll need to get used to or find another profession as the pending conflict with China is not "going to be over by Christmas".

 

[Eaglelord17]

Yes, that's an exceptional circumstance. Expecting a port call every 30 days has created a culture to expect that during combat operations. It's not realistic and it's a symptom of a peacetime deployment structure.


I don't have a ton of sympathy for folks having to eat rations a few days because they needed a fresh food resup. This is grasping at straws to manufacture outrage.


This is a bad analogy. Unless they've sat at general quarters for the last 240+ days it's not remotely the same thing. That's not looking down on 240+ days of continuous heavy flight operations which would put a toll on anyone's body and mental health but it's apples to oranges.


See line 1, folks are used to peacetime structure where they get to get off the ship. The sky is not falling here, it's just real people experiencing combat operations for an abnormal period of time. It's also something they'll need to get used to or find another profession as the pending conflict with China is not "going to be over by Christmas".

Your right, not over by Christmas is correct on the length of the war, but even in the trenches troops were rotated out, generally spending only 20% of their time (usually 3-7 days at a time) on the front lines. This is the Naval equivalent of no rotating out.

These sailors literally are breaking records (and a record is the max anyone else has done) in a warzone no less and you’re calling them weak for hitting their limits.

People don’t have to get used to this type of conditions, this is a exceptional circumstance not anywhere near what the norm should be even in war. Anyone seeking to keep that type of pace going in wartime isn’t going to have a effective fighting force very quickly.

 

[PuckChaser]

These sailors literally are breaking records (and a record is the max anyone else has done) in a warzone no less and you’re calling them weak for hitting their limits.

I said no such thing. I said their previous cushy deployments with lots of port calls did not adequately prepare them for the harshness of sustained combat operations. That's a leadership problem inside USN not political and definitely not the sailors. The entire situation is being blown out of proportion to score cheap political points in an unpopular war.

 

[OldSolduer]

Embrace the suck for without that future endeavours are not likely to happen

 

[daftandbarmy]

Shots fired... blue on blue...

Fury erupts at Fox host who blasted ‘weak’ sailors on USS Abraham Lincoln: ‘Put him on that ship’​

The former Marine Corps staff sergeant compared the carrier crew’s living conditions to his own deployment in Afghanistan​

Fox News presenter Joey Jones is under fire following a three-minute on-air outburst targeting service members deployed aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln who recently voiced concerns about deteriorating shipboard conditions.

Sailors and their families have complained about conditions, including the food, on the ship given its deployment for more than 200 days. The carrier has been in the Middle East helping in Donald Trump’s war in Iran. Administration officials, including the president, have dismissed concerns about the conditions.

“How weak are you?” Jones asked while co-hosting Fox News’s “The Big Weekend Show” on Saturday, reacting to a segment that originally aired Thursday on CNN.

“On TV, complaining about tuna and noodles?” Jones said. “I’m sorry, you volunteered to serve your country. You can come back, get out of the military, and do like all of these Democrat veterans and complain about it and make commercials and be a sellout if you want to.”

On social media, critics immediately turned the host’s own framing against him.

Fury erupts at Fox host who blasted ‘weak’ sailors on USS Abraham Lincoln

The former Marine Corps staff sergeant compared the carrier crew’s living conditions to his own deployment in Afghanistan

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Halifax Tar]

Or after years of soft, cushy deployments, the ship crews are completely unprepared for major combat operations and the hardship that comes with them which is a USN leadership not political problem. Expecting 0 mental health issues on a 9 month deployment shows me the folks that have never deployed for that period of time before without a break.

How many days at sea do you have ? Honest question, not a gotcha attempt.

 

[Altair]

Shots fired... blue on blue...

Fury erupts at Fox host who blasted ‘weak’ sailors on USS Abraham Lincoln: ‘Put him on that ship’​

The former Marine Corps staff sergeant compared the carrier crew’s living conditions to his own deployment in Afghanistan​

Fox News presenter Joey Jones is under fire following a three-minute on-air outburst targeting service members deployed aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln who recently voiced concerns about deteriorating shipboard conditions.

Sailors and their families have complained about conditions, including the food, on the ship given its deployment for more than 200 days. The carrier has been in the Middle East helping in Donald Trump’s war in Iran. Administration officials, including the president, have dismissed concerns about the conditions.

“How weak are you?” Jones asked while co-hosting Fox News’s “The Big Weekend Show” on Saturday, reacting to a segment that originally aired Thursday on CNN.

“On TV, complaining about tuna and noodles?” Jones said. “I’m sorry, you volunteered to serve your country. You can come back, get out of the military, and do like all of these Democrat veterans and complain about it and make commercials and be a sellout if you want to.”

On social media, critics immediately turned the host’s own framing against him.

Fury erupts at Fox host who blasted ‘weak’ sailors on USS Abraham Lincoln

The former Marine Corps staff sergeant compared the carrier crew’s living conditions to his own deployment in Afghanistan

www.independent.co.uk

Lot of this going around it seems.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

OK. Let's try to get a few facts injected into this, so people learn a few things about US carrier operations.

First of all, there is little in terms of difference between the "cushy" deployments and "major combat operations". At most, you will have a slightly increased tempo of launches and recoveries, but on a carrier, once you arrive at your operational area, peace or wartime, you go into continuous cyclic ops (launch- recover - prep - launch -etc. etc.). While this is going on - and pay attention here, this is important: nobody other than flyers and flight deck crew are allowed on deck, which means that for the roughly 4,000 or so sailors that are not in that group, you have just spent 240 days inside four steel walls, never getting to see the sun, the sky or the sea, breathing recycled air, with no place to go to get away from anything or anyone.

And that's the second thing: On a carrier, no matter where you go or what you want to do, there will be other people around and you likely will have to line up and wait your turn (anyone remembers the Top Gun scene at the end with Maverick, alone, overlooking the sea from the flat at the stern of the ship and "letting go" of Goose? Well that ain't happening: you'd have a hundred people there).

So, for 240 some days, your life has been: 12 hours a day doing the exact same job (US sailors are trained to do one job - theirs and not a variety of jobs, like we do in Canada) every day, without a break, then line up. Line up to get each of your three (sometimes four) meals, line up to buy something at the exchange (if anything is left after over 180 days- if they can't get a full resupply of food, exchange stores aren't on the list of resupply either - which may mean, I am speculating here, that they may have run out of cigarettes for the smokers. Then line up to take a shower, then line up to play on the video games machines or the gym machines, then line up to... you get the gist. Then you get extra work cleaning around your section and, finally, you get five or six hours of sleep, in your cubbyhole about the size of a coffin, where the only thing separating you from the others in the mess deck is a curtain. Remember, all the while never having fresh air or seeing outside the four walls. We don't even impose such a regimen on prisoners.

And who exactly is going through this? Young kids. On any given deployment of a US carrier, anywhere between a quarter and a third of the crew (1500 to 2000 sailors) are on their first or second such deployment, barely out of basic and first trade qualification. They are 18, 19, 20 years old, first time away from home. The USN is not a long service professional's navy as we are used to have in Canada. Most of their crew are in for a five year term with a very limited number of them signing for more at the end of their contract (so much so that they give "prizes" to ships that achieve a certain percentage of re-enlistments).

So, no, it's not like Afghanistan.

This is what happens in such an environment: 3 months in: the practical joker guy is beginning to get on your nerve, 4 1/2 month in: you confront him and tell him to knock it off or else, 6 months in and over: you punch him in the face and are brought in front of the summary court by the marines. Repeat that with thousands of sailors and you can see that, on a very long deployment without a break, things can go South very easily.

Even on submarines (except the boomers - but they are limited to 3 months patrols) we go to the surface from time to time and make sure that everybody gets a chance to come up an have a breath of fresh air and see the sky.

 

[Halifax Tar]

OK. Let's try to get a few facts injected into this, so people learn a few things about US carrier operations.

First of all, there is little in terms of difference between the "cushy" deployments and "major combat operations". At most, you will have a slightly increased tempo of launches and recoveries, but on a carrier, once you arrive at your operational area, peace or wartime, you go into continuous cyclic ops (launch- recover - prep - launch -etc. etc.). While this is going on - and pay attention here, this is important: nobody other than flyers and flight deck crew are allowed on deck, which means that for the roughly 4,000 or so sailors that are not in that group, you have just spent 240 days inside four steel walls, never getting to see the sun, the sky or the sea, breathing recycled air, with no place to go to get away from anything or anyone.

And that's the second thing: On a carrier, no matter where you go or what you want to do, there will be other people around and you likely will have to line up and wait your turn (anyone remembers the Top Gun scene at the end with Maverick, alone, overlooking the sea from the flat at the stern of the ship and "letting go" of Goose? Well that ain't happening: you'd have a hundred people there).

So, for 240 some days, your life has been: 12 hours a day doing the exact same job (US sailors are trained to do one job - theirs and not a variety of jobs, like we do in Canada) every day, without a break, then line up. Line up to get each of your three (sometimes four) meals, line up to buy something at the exchange (if anything is left after over 180 days- if they can't get a full resupply of food, exchange stores aren't on the list of resupply either - which may mean, I am speculating here, that they may have run out of cigarettes for the smokers. Then line up to take a shower, then line up to play on the video games machines or the gym machines, then line up to... you get the gist. Then you get extra work cleaning around your section and, finally, you get five or six hours of sleep, in your cubbyhole about the size of a coffin, where the only thing separating you from the others in the mess deck is a curtain. Remember, all the while never having fresh air or seeing outside the four walls. We don't even impose such a regimen on prisoners.

And who exactly is going through this? Young kids. On any given deployment of a US carrier, anywhere between a quarter and a third of the crew (1500 to 2000 sailors) are on their first or second such deployment, barely out of basic and first trade qualification. They are 18, 19, 20 years old, first time away from home. The USN is not a long service professional's navy as we are used to have in Canada. Most of their crew are in for a five year term with a very limited number of them signing for more at the end of their contract (so much so that they give "prizes" to ships that achieve a certain percentage of re-enlistments).

So, no, it's not like Afghanistan.

This is what happens in such an environment: 3 months in: the practical joker guy is beginning to get on your nerve, 4 1/2 month in: you confront him and tell him to knock it off or else, 6 months in and over: you punch him in the face and are brought in front of the summary court by the marines. Repeat that with thousands of sailors and you can see that, on a very long deployment without a break, things can go South very easily.

Even on submarines (except the boomers - but they are limited to 3 months patrols) we go to the surface from time to time and make sure that everybody gets a chance to come up an have a breath of fresh air and see the sky.

My personal record is 34 days at sea. Rota, Spain -> Cape Town, RSA.
-The crew went buck wild in Cape Town for 7 days after that.

I also did 141 days without shore leave in FRE in 2020.
-We were functioning alcoholics by the end. And many have never sailed again.

I also did 2 AFG tours.

Both have their hardships.

 

[lenaitch]

And who exactly is going through this? Young kids. On any given deployment of a US carrier, anywhere between a quarter and a third of the crew (1500 to 2000 sailors) are on their first or second such deployment, barely out of basic and first trade qualification. They are 18, 19, 20 years old, first time away from home. The USN is not a long service professional's navy as we are used to have in Canada. Most of their crew are in for a five year term with a very limited number of them signing for more at the end of their contract (so much so that they give "prizes" to ships that achieve a certain percentage of re-enlistments).

My daughter gave me a DVD covering a carrier deployment. I was surprised by the youth of much of the crew and what the department heads, et al, had to deal with. Sure, they followed a limited number of crew members but you could see it in the wide shots as well. A lot of 'first cruise' crew.