Is it time to list ANTIFA as a criminal or terrorist organization?

[ArmyRick]

If you’re going to assume every counter protest is “Antifa,”

Stop thinking your echoing Brihard points, your not even close. Brihard has first hand experience dealing with violent and unlawful protestors.

You, aren't following what I said. Nor do I think you observe things very well. Assuming comes from people wearing t-shirts and waving huge flags that say "ANTIFA". Can you explain that? No, you can't. Go through a history on it, you will see people brandishing antifa signs, clothing and flags at many demonstrations and protest. Explain that.

I realize antifa is not at every protest, but I am getting sick of people that pretend its not an issue. I spoke to a few ex-military friends who have been serving on Peel police for many years now and yeah, they are aware of what antifa is and described some of the similar problems in dealing with it as brihard has.

I am not pulling this info out of my ass.

considered a terrorist organization what you’re actually suggesting is that we outlaw protests we disagree with

Showing up and screaming loudly and obnoxiously while holding signs that you hate the right wing/conservatives/neo-nazi/fiscal responsibility/government funding being cut/whatever, fine. Thats a protest. I assume lawful. I have no issues with that. My parents did that many years ago on union strikes.

Punching people in the face, hitting them with signs, issuing direct threats of violence, throwing objects, etc at people is NOT LAWFUL protest. Do that shitty behaviour and you need to get charged with a crime in my view.

You tried to gaslight me, not on.

The question is should they be listed as a terrorist organization? I guess your answer no.

 

[Genetk44]

Stop thinking your echoing Brihard points, your not even close. Brihard has first hand experience dealing with violent and unlawful protestors.

You, aren't following what I said. Nor do I think you observe things very well. Assuming comes from people wearing t-shirts and waving huge flags that say "ANTIFA". Can you explain that? No, you can't. Go through a history on it, you will see people brandishing antifa signs, clothing and flags at many demonstrations and protest. Explain that.

I realize antifa is not at every protest, but I am getting sick of people that pretend its not an issue. I spoke to a few ex-military friends who have been serving on Peel police for many years now and yeah, they are aware of what antifa is and described some of the similar problems in dealing with it as brihard has.

I am not pulling this info out of my ass.


Showing up and screaming loudly and obnoxiously while holding signs that you hate the right wing/conservatives/neo-nazi/fiscal responsibility/government funding being cut/whatever, fine. Thats a protest. I assume lawful. I have no issues with that. My parents did that many years ago on union strikes.

Punching people in the face, hitting them with signs, issuing direct threats of violence, throwing objects, etc at people is NOT LAWFUL protest. Do that shitty behaviour and you need to get charged with a crime in my view.

You tried to gaslight me, not on.

The question is should they be listed as a terrorist organization? I guess your answer no.

“Punching people in the face, hitting them with signs, issuing direct threats of violence, throwing objects….”…..yes those are crimes, charge the perpetrators accordingly. But to try and use those actions as a reason to label somebody as a terrorist…or a group as a terrorist group is very over the top. During my 70 years on this planet the words “ terrorist,terrorist group, terror tactics etc., were used very specifically….until fairly recently. Unfortunately those words are being used far too often and increasingly inappropriately imho, sometimes by our own governments, very often by individual politicians and very commonly by just plain regular folks. And its usually an attempt by that entity/person to really vilify somebody or some situation that the speaker just doesn’t like. Those words are starting to loose their actual power and meaning by such casual use unfortunately.

 

[markppcli]

Stop thinking your echoing Brihard points, your not even close. Brihard has first hand experience dealing with violent and unlawful protestors.

In echoing his point not his experience.

You, aren't following what I said. Nor do I think you observe things very well. Assuming comes from people wearing t-shirts and waving huge flags that say "ANTIFA". Can you explain that? No, you can't. Go through a history on it, you will see people brandishing antifa signs, clothing and flags at many demonstrations and protest. Explain that.

People can wear what ever they want, there I explained it. Is everyone wearing a jersey a member of a sports team? I guess if I googled “antifa” I’d probably see a lot of pictures, but that’s hardly a fair way of examining evidence as it’s jus going to be cherry picked.

I realize antifa is not at every protest, but I am getting sick of people that pretend its not an issue. I spoke to a few ex-military friends who have been serving on Peel police for many years now and yeah, they are aware of what antifa is and described some of the similar problems in dealing with it as brihard has.

I am not pulling this info out of my ass.


Showing up and screaming loudly and obnoxiously while holding signs that you hate the right wing/conservatives/neo-nazi/fiscal responsibility/government funding being cut/whatever, fine. Thats a protest. I assume lawful. I have no issues with that. My parents did that many years ago on union strikes.

Concur

Punching people in the face, hitting them with signs, issuing direct threats of violence, throwing objects, etc at people is NOT LAWFUL protest. Do that shitty behaviour and you need to get charged with a crime in my viiew.

Where has anyone disagreed with you in that.

You tried to gaslight me, not on.

No I’m just following your argument.

The question is should they be listed as a terrorist organization? I guess your answer no.

For the what? Fourth time, see the difference between an organization and a movement and how that makes it different in terms of defining membership.

 

[Sprinting Thistle]

So you’re suggesting we police people’s views?

No. I don't see where I am suggesting that in my post. I am simply suggesting that antifa is modelling new tactics that don't fit under current laws, then perhaps the laws need to change to meet this new approach. For myself, I would leave it to the politicians and the legal community to work out the details. However, we have to acknowledge that antifa uses greater decentralization - a recognized brand rather than a leadership that controls it, tactical adaptability and versatility, digital/virtual coordination and swam/flash mob style behaviours in their actions. This poses greater challenges for security forces as there is no leader/leadership or HQ to target. Police can use current laws to take out individuals committing a crime, but the idea of antifa will still go on. Local cells can coalesce and dissolve at will, all activities are asymmetric consuming resources from security forces, and ideological diffusion enables the justification of any and all violence under a variety of labels such as anti-fascism or anti-racism, or other social justice ideas.

 

[OldSolduer]

They aren’t terrorists not are they a criminal organization.
They do bear watching though

 

[ModlrMike]

They aren’t terrorists not are they a criminal organization.
They do bear watching though

I'm going to partially disagree here. They are terrorists and criminals, in that they use violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political goals. I would agree that they're not an organization, and that they do bear watching.

 

[OldSolduer]

I'm going to partially disagree here. They are terrorists and criminals, in that they use violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political goals. I would agree that they're not an organization, and that they do bear watching.

You make good points but right now they are more of a pain the ass types. If city governments had some balls and gave them a dose or six of OC then maybe we aren’t discussing these assholes.

They do need watching.

 

[Genetk44]

Actually Antifa generally tries to avoid using violence….but that does not mean they absolutely never use violence. Various Antifa spokespersons do acknowledge the use of violence especially when violently attacked. Meanwhile the Right has made the very amorphous Antifa into this huge evil, boogeyman by constantly calling it terrorist,violent and communist, to frighten the general undecided public. Pretty similar to what they have done to Soros, Gates the Rothschilds et al.
And meanwhile the undoubted biggest threat to modern western democracy was not perpetrated by Antifa,the Left or any of those people it was caused on January 6th by the"The Proud Boys"; The Oath Keepers, White Nationalists hardcore Maga supporters and other right-wing organizations.

And now Trump has pulled out "The Proud Boys"; The Oath Keepers and White Nationalists out of the "terrorism" registry!

 

[Cloud Cover]

ACAB is a much more concerning phenomenon and public safety problem than Antifa.

 

[KevinB]

When reasonable people are pushed too far they will join what they think best represents their views. IF that is a populist party or person, they will follow.


Watch n Shoot. This may not turn out well.

Germany in the 1930’s and more recently down here.

 

[QV]

Actually Antifa generally tries to avoid using violence….but that does not mean they absolutely never use violence. Various Antifa spokespersons do acknowledge the use of violence especially when violently attacked. Meanwhile the Right has made the very amorphous Antifa into this huge evil, boogeyman by constantly calling it terrorist,violent and communist, to frighten the general undecided public. Pretty similar to what they have done to Soros, Gates the Rothschilds et al.
And meanwhile the undoubted biggest threat to modern western democracy was not perpetrated by Antifa,the Left or any of those people it was caused on January 6th by the"The Proud Boys"; The Oath Keepers, White Nationalists hardcore Maga supporters and other right-wing organizations.

And now Trump has pulled out "The Proud Boys"; The Oath Keepers and White Nationalists out of the "terrorism" registry!

The summer of "mostly peaceful protests" disagrees.

 

[Genetk44]

The summer of "mostly peaceful protests" disagrees.

So you are implying what exactly? That all the violence was Antifa? That the majority of violent actors were card-carrying Antifa members?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Actually Antifa generally tries to avoid using violence….but that does not mean they absolutely never use violence.

"Generally avoids violence" seems like a stretch.

Antifa often frames violence as a form of defensive or pre-emptive action. They're using force to stop what they perceive as fascist organizing. So totally justified.

Lots of participants, especially the outliers, may prefer non-violent methods, but antifa doesn't universally avoid violence. Many of their groups explicitly prepare for it when facing far-right rallies.

Various Antifa spokespersons do acknowledge the use of violence especially when violently attacked. Meanwhile the Right has made the very amorphous Antifa into this huge evil, boogeyman by constantly calling it terrorist,violent and communist, to frighten the general undecided public.

Sounds like you're trying to paint then as victims. "Especially when violently attacked"? Come on. Few and far between are the times some poor antifa person protesting are randomly attacked. Video after video shown then categorically being the agressor.

And meanwhile the undoubted biggest threat to modern western democracy was not perpetrated by Antifa,the Left or any of those people it was caused on January 6th by the"The Proud Boys"; The Oath Keepers, White Nationalists hardcore Maga supporters and other right-wing organizations.

The Proud Boys, The Oath Keepers, and others are more dangerous because of their organization, structure and cohesion. Don't try and white wash antifas behavior and paint them as just some rambunctious kids.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Actually Antifa generally tries to avoid using violence….

Mmmmmm...

 

[Halifax Tar]

"Generally avoids violence" seems like a stretch.

Antifa often frames violence as a form of defensive or pre-emptive action. They're using force to stop what they perceive as fascist organizing. So totally justified.

Lots of participants, especially the outliers, may prefer non-violent methods, but antifa doesn't universally avoid violence. Many of their groups explicitly prepare for it when facing far-right rallies.


Sounds like you're trying to paint then as victims. "Especially when violently attacked"? Come on. Few and far between are the times some poor antifa person protesting are randomly attacked. Video after video shown then categorically being the agressor.



The Proud Boys, The Oath Keepers, and others are more dangerous because of their organization, structure and cohesion. Don't try and white wash antifas behavior and paint them as just some rambunctious

Antifa's strength is in its lack of organization and leadership. You cant fight an idea.

 

[Cloud Cover]

So you are implying what exactly? That all the violence was Antifa? That the majority of violent actors were card-carrying Antifa members?

Yes,
And BLM

 

[Genetk44]

Yes,
And BLM

Got any links or actual statistics to back that up with?

 

[Genetk44]

Mmmmmm...

Yes

 

[Genetk44]

"Generally avoids violence" seems like a stretch.

Antifa often frames violence as a form of defensive or pre-emptive action. They're using force to stop what they perceive as fascist organizing. So totally justified.

Lots of participants, especially the outliers, may prefer non-violent methods, but antifa doesn't universally avoid violence. Many of their groups explicitly prepare for it when facing far-right rallies.


Sounds like you're trying to paint then as victims. "Especially when violently attacked"? Come on. Few and far between are the times some poor antifa person protesting are randomly attacked. Video after video shown then categorically being the agressor.



The Proud Boys, The Oath Keepers, and others are more dangerous because of their organization, structure and cohesion. Don't try and white wash antifas behavior and paint them as just some rambunctious kids.

Nowhere in my comments did I paint them as just some rambunctious kids.

 

[Genetk44]

"Generally avoids violence" seems like a stretch.

Antifa often frames violence as a form of defensive or pre-emptive action. They're using force to stop what they perceive as fascist organizing. So totally justified.

Lots of participants, especially the outliers, may prefer non-violent methods, but antifa doesn't universally avoid violence. Many of their groups explicitly prepare for it when facing far-right rallies.


Sounds like you're trying to paint then as victims. "Especially when violently attacked"? Come on. Few and far between are the times some poor antifa person protesting are randomly attacked. Video after video shown then categorically being the agressor.



The Proud Boys, The Oath Keepers, and others are more dangerous because of their organization, structure and cohesion. Don't try and white wash antifas behavior and paint them as just some rambunctious kids.

I’m not trying to paint them as victims at all. Antifa don’t claim to be non-violent, their preferred methods are ordinary protests, doxxing and other forms of digital protests. they actually said they will use violence if the situation justifies it…such as, among other things, when they are attacked