Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)

[AbdullahD]

What is it about Islam that makes people so violent and not just want to kill non-believers but actually try to?

Nothing. Let's face it, if Islam is the problem.. the world would be far far more violent.

I'd be asking what's is it with a person's social, economic and/or psychological state that makes them want to kill others.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I don't think you're facing the reality of what's going on in the middle east and much of Europe.

 

[AbdullahD]

I don't think you're facing the reality of what's going on in the middle east and much of Europe.

Why do you say this? My previous comment was not polite.

 

[mariomike]

My previous comment was not polite.

I thought it was polite.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Why do you say this? My previous comment was not polite.

Being a Muslim convert I think you're (understandably) biased towards Islam. I know it's insulting and I apologize for it but I've said it in the past that I think you've been exposed to a Scientology-lite version of Islam or see it through rose colored lenses. Where you see a few minor isolated incidents involving Islam I see constant example after example of attack after attack.  Culture clash after culture clash.

Of course Islam isn't the sole proprietor of evil actions around the world but to me it seems overwhelmingly and disproportionately at the center of it. All over the world. It happens so much that it's not even news worthy. An ambulance packed with explosives just took out 95 dead 158 injured in January, Kabul. Yawn.

The above story, another kid lured away by Jihad. He read about Islam and wanted to go kill people.  You just don't read about all these christian kids leaving their parents to goto murder people. People aren't going to bible camp planning to detonate bombs in Time Square.  Of course there are examples of Christian nut bars but again, very very disproportionate to what we're seeing in the news.  Canadian Jews aren't flying over to Israel and sawing the heads off Palestine prisoners. Wiccans aren't going to Scotland and burning people to death.  I won't even get into the shit show that's going in in European countries.

There's 58 pages here of Islamic terrorism in the west and 5 of non-Islamic terrorism. Notice it's not even X or Y terrorism, it's everyone else combined.
That is why I say what I say.

 

[jollyjacktar]

ER, IIRC, pointed out though if you were to go back in time to different periods, it was "this" group or "that" society who were running amok, hacking and slashing.

At this particular juncture, it seems as if some elements of Islam are off their rockers and running amok. 

Seeing as it's varied on who the retards of the moment are throughout history perhaps it's more of a species flaw that has been manipulated by con artists ready to act.  This week, it's Islam week.

:dunno:

 

[Jed]

ER, IIRC, pointed out though if you were to go back in time to different periods, it was "this" group or "that" society who were running amok, hacking and slashing.

At this particular juncture, it seems as if some elements of Islam are off their rockers and running amok. 

Seeing as it's varied on who the retards of the moment are throughout history perhaps it's more of a species flaw that has been manipulated by con artists ready to act.  This week, it's Islam week.

:dunno:

I would say your 'week' timeframe is a little skewed. A time span crossing 2 or three generations is probably more accurate.  I would pile on with Jarnhamar's opinion.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I would say your 'week' timeframe is a little skewed. A time span crossing 2 or three generations is probably more accurate.  I would pile on with Jarnhamar's opinion.

I was not being literal with "week".  But, seeing as you went "there", l think you'll find that three generations ago, it was Germany that we had issues with.  Not Islam.

https://isogg.org/wiki/How_long_is_a_generation%3F_Science_provides_an_answer

 

[George Wallace]

I was not being literal with "week".  But, seeing as you went "there", l think you'll find that three generations ago, it was Germany that we had issues with.  Not Islam.

And some still do.

I find it amazing that this Government seems to think that they can "rehabilitate" jihadists, and that they can make a meaningful contribution to our society; all the while still hunting down 80, 90 and 100 year old "Nazis" who may have come here and lived productive lives....only to be deported if found out.  This runs rather contrary to Justin's "A Canadian is a Canadian, is a Canadian" when you realize the there have been worse regimes than the Nazis when it comes to committing genocide.  Look a the Communist Regimes of Stalin and Mao, and the more recent acts of ISIS.  The Nazis pale in comparison. 

Disclaimer:  I am in no way defending what Hitler's Nazis did; just pointing out that there have been far worse since his demise.

 

[jollyjacktar]

And well before that too.  Genghis Kahn comes to mind.  He was so efficient at depopulation, l have read, that it changed the climate.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1350272/Genghis-Khan-killed-people-forests-grew-carbon-levels-dropped.html

I think it is fair to say that people have always been bad for and to one another.

I do agree that l believe the current GoC are RTFO if they think curing any Jihadi assholes who come home is possible.  I think that mineral therapy will be the only effective method of cure.

 

[dapaterson]

Religious leaders refuse to stop child marriage.  Girls as young as ten are being married off to much older men, but religious leaders are working to stop any efforts to change the law.

Whoops.  Wait a minute.  That's Christians in Kentucky...

https://insiderlouisville.com/metro/bipartisan-child-marriage-bill-faces-roadblock-from-conservative-family-foundation/

 

[AbdullahD]

Yes 58 pages or more if you count other threads on this site, no doubt many more.

But you have made an allegation which implies my interpretation and understanding of Islam is "watered down" or "modernized" and biased. Which makes me wonder how many of my replies to your query or the queries of others you have actually read. A lot of my replies center around evidence from scholars from hundreds of years ago or are extremely main stream in the Islamic world, ie followed by thousands and thousands of Muslims. Many of the scholars, who I reference have never EVER been accused of watering down or modernizing Islam.. yet you seem to feel they did by launching those allegations at me.

So i as always enjoy your critical eye, but it seems, as if the burden of proof for me is far higher then it is for you.. simply because you view me as a biased convert, with no real world exposure. So I admit No, I have not seen battle or blood, but I do not admit to being ignorant unless you care to show me where I have shown you that I am so. Then I will concede and leave it be and comment no more.

I argue that social, economic, monetary and psychological issues are what truly fuel radicalization and religion, politics and ideologies are simply the excuse that is used to whip up the masses to see red.

I blame Muslims for Muslim issues ie Isis the Taliban etc. I don't sit here and whine about who invaded those Muslim countries or tried over throw them or funded different interest groups. Which I could, but to me it is a moot point because everyone will answer for himself before God and should do so in this life too for the decisions they make. So of course I know we will argue in circles, but I for one, think the world needs it.. even if we never agree.. but let's just try to keep it cleaner. If you feel I truly am these things then display your proof or reasons and I'll counter and we either stop or move on.

You are a wise person and not afraid to be critical of things you think deserve it.. I just hope I can make you critical of these idiot Muslims who do these acts and not Islam. It's an uphill battle, with every disadvantage for me but I think you deserve me annoying you

Abdullah

Ps it was rude Mike ha ha lol

 

[Jed]

Yes 58 pages or more if you count other threads on this site, no doubt many more.

But you have made an allegation which implies my interpretation and understanding of Islam is "watered down" or "modernized" and biased. Which makes me wonder how many of my replies to your query or the queries of others you have actually read. A lot of my replies center around evidence from scholars from hundreds of years ago or are extremely main stream in the Islamic world, ie followed by thousands and thousands of Muslims. Many of the scholars, who I reference have never EVER been accused of watering down or modernizing Islam.. yet you seem to feel they did by launching those allegations at me.

So i as always enjoy your critical eye, but it seems, as if the burden of proof for me is far higher then it is for you.. simply because you view me as a biased convert, with no real world exposure. So I admit No, I have not seen battle or blood, but I do not admit to being ignorant unless you care to show me where I have shown you that I am so. Then I will concede and leave it be and comment no more.

I argue that social, economic, monetary and psychological issues are what truly fuel radicalization and religion, politics and ideologies are simply the excuse that is used to whip up the masses to see red.

I blame Muslims for Muslim issues ie Isis the Taliban etc. I don't sit here and whine about who invaded those Muslim countries or tried over throw them or funded different interest groups. Which I could, but to me it is a moot point because everyone will answer for himself before God and should do so in this life too for the decisions they make. So of course I know we will argue in circles, but I for one, think the world needs it.. even if we never agree.. but let's just try to keep it cleaner. If you feel I truly am these things then display your proof or reasons and I'll counter and we either stop or move on.

You are a wise person and not afraid to be critical of things you think deserve it.. I just hope I can make you critical of these idiot Muslims who do these acts and not Islam. It's an uphill battle, with every disadvantage for me but I think you deserve me annoying you

Abdullah

Ps it was rude Mike ha ha lol

I am critical of Islam but not in a harsh and condemning way, however I am very condemning of terrorist extremism which, to me in this day and age seems to be predominantly by muslims.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yes 58 pages or more if you count other threads on this site, no doubt many more.

Exactly my point.

Believe me when I say I do consider and read your replies very closely and consider them from a couple different perspectives.

I don't think your understanding of Islam is watered down. I think you know a lot about Islam. Probably more than most converts AND 'from birth' Muslims. I'd be confident considering you an expert in scholarly Islam. 
There's a great video of Milo Yanopolous who visited Australia and was on a talk show with a Muslim woman who was going to put gay white Milo in his place about Islam. The only problem is she had no idea what the hell she was talking about and Milo contentiously corrected her and pointed out Muslim rules and laws that she had no idea about.  You on the other hand are well read and learned a lot about Islam, it would be interesting to see you and Milo debate. I think people take Religion and plug and play the aspects they like.

You've already admitted to approaching, learning  about and accepting Islam as a scholar. You like the scholar aspects of it I believe you said.  I think you were able to pick and choose what sounds good to you and what doesn't, literature wise. When I say Scientology-lite I simply mean you, as you say, haven't attended mosques where they're talking about murdering jews or infidels. You haven't been exposed to the fire and violence that so many seem to be exposed to. And it shows in your correspondence and attitude IMO.  But we know some people are the opposite. We see lots of stories of people finding Islam then deciding to make war against the west, leave home to murder people for ISIS or plan to blow up train stations. 

My personal belief is I think there is something particular about Islam that results in a more than average number of followers becoming violent and radical. I don't know what it is but I think there is more to it than just people with mental illness.

I accept that I'm quite biased against Islam and closed minded when it comes to religion (especially to Islam). I'm still allowed to be, so far. And I suspect were I not allowed to be critical of Islam I would find you in my corner defending me. 

Asking me for evidence of my reasons isn't important. What you should ask me for is evidence that youcould  give me that would change my mind (if any).
And I think at this point it would be none.  Just too many disproportionate examples to change my mind at this stage.


Question for you, do you still think Shari law would be a good thing to bring to Canada?


With regard to keeping things cleaner I understand it was insulting (sorry) but do believe I wasn't trying to make a jab at you or personal attack. I'm being candid with my beliefs and observations.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

A problem I see with this whole Islam vs Everyone else is this.

With other nations, religion, politics and ideologies are for the most part separate. We deal with these items as separate. There is some crossover, but essentially they are separate issues. We can make laws that have no religious connotations, we elect politicians (mostly) without looking at religion. Religious groups are allowed to put their spin on election issues but it is the will of the people that prevails. Our politics, in the main, are based on Christian values. Those values allow us to guide society with laws that involve right and wrong, rules of evidence, fair trials and meeting your accuser. We have evolved this system through the Magna Carta and rules of Common Law. Religion WAS and important part of our society only a few hundred years ago. We also burned people alive. The Spanish Inquisition was every bit as violent and damaging as ISIS. During the dark ages, the church held almost supreme control, even over the emperors. Politics and life was lived according to what the local priest said, because the only book available was the Bible and only the church could read it and as a god fearing individual, you did what the priest said because he took direction from the way he interpreted the Bible. What happened next was that King James decided everyone should be able to read the Bible, so he had it printed in English and made people learn to read. The church lost control, people became educated and civilisation prospered and passed beyond the absolute authority of the church and into the light of human conscience. We came to see religion as something that just made you, in your own mind, be a better person and something to provide succor in during times and trials of human faith and nature. The church, in practice, does not interfere with the making of laws or the governance of the people or the way people make their living. You are no longer required to 'donate' half your crop to the church, etc.

With Islam, there is no separation. The church is the state and the imams are the power behind the state. Religion is woven into every action, every thought and every decision made by an Islamist. And as with Christians earlier, your ISIS fighters, AQ, et al, follow what they are told to do because the imam tells them what the Koran says and they must follow. Hate is taught. Five times a day they are lectured by their imam. They grow up in a twenty mile area that they never leave and know little of the outside world. Times are tough and lean. When you grow up, being told five times a day that the faceless infidel from across the seas is coming to destroy you and your religion and way of life you head off for jihad. It just what you do, according to the Koran and imam. Religion IS politics. Religion IS lifestyle. Religion IS the law. Having said that, look at the majority of educated Islamists, in the west. For the most part, there was never a problem in Canada, or most of the western world because they are educated and can use their own minds and figure thing out themselves. They are still pious. They still worship within their doctrine, but they don't take the Koran as literal. Just like we no longer take the Bible as literal and slay everyone not of your faith or denomination. Islam appears to be running, existence wise about 700 years behind Christianity. They are currently going through the same thing we did around 700 years ago, when the church ran the world. As was then, more are becoming educated and reducing the imams and mosques influence on them. I see honour killings in Canada. I noticed something though. Might or might not just be me with crazy theories. Honour killings were not a common occurance here. Muslims that came to Canada had educations. Beyond the odd weird case, it didn't happen here. We started taking in people from villages and abject poverty, who'd never seen a tv or heard a radio and dropped them in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver. They are terrified. And where do they go for comfort and safety? To the mosque. If you have an imam that teaches strictly by the word of the Koran, that person will remain as uneducated and following the rules of his religion to the hilt, because the imam said so. There is also the peer pressure. We now have hundreds of thousands of uneducated Islamic refugees and illegal immigrants. Police intelligence from Saskatchewan indicates a growth of illegal criminal gangs from amongst these groups. One summer of unabated illegal crossings and we have criminal migrant gangs, preying on their own and citizens of Canada. Because the Koran says it's OK to screw over the infidel. THAT is their law. And their law was written with divine intervention and therefore supersedes the laws of Canada or man.

As the Christians did, they will not solve this until the mosques and imams lose political control of the populous and they come firmly under the guidance of an elected government that is serious about taking power from the church. And that is something the west cannot do. We can help when they ask, but this is something the muslims need to do for themselves. It cannot, under any circumstance, be tied or tainted by anything that is not islamic. It is 100% on the modern muslims to sort out the problems of their brethren, educate them and get them into, at least, the 20th century.

OK, that was way too long. Sorry.

Just my  :2c: the way I see it.

 

[Kat Stevens]

One of the biggest problem with Islam, as opposed to the bigger Christian denominations, is that there is no “central authority” that hands down to the official policy. In Islam, any half baked loon can call himself a preacher, hang out a shingle, and start spewing his own interpretation of the book, complete with his own biases. It’s easy to convince the uneducated, or the just plain stupid, that your way is the only way, con men have done it for millennia.

 

[YZT580]

Well said, Recce guy.  That is as good an explanation as |I have read anywhere.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

With the exception of course of that Muslim terrorist to be who was an Engineering student at the masters level in Montreal, but decided to collude to blow a train in Ontario - then refuse to recognize the courts of Canada, stating Allah and the Koran as sole proper authorities over him. Oh! And the two brothers who turned out to be the Boston bombers, who were college level educated in North America. And these College students here in Quebec that dropped everything to go fight for ISIS.

Etc. Etc.

It's not limited to the uneducated masses here in North America for those who turn against us. It is, however, confined to people who, for one reason or another actually and sincerely believe - for sure, sure, sure, in a god and all the crap put out by their religion as actually true, unlike the real 95% of human beings that don't really believe it's true but go along at least superficially, just in case, and mostly because it is by now (after millennia of being fooled by the priestly caste) the socially accepted norm and they don't like to stand out or disappoint their parents and grand-parents.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Fair enough, I guess we could replace uneducated with gullible and foolish.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I tried to allude to that above. Guess I missed. Anyway, as far as the Montreal engineer scenario. People want inclusion. They search around for someone that will accept them. The terrorist and activist imams, if contacted, will woo the person, fawn on him, make him part of the family, then start with the radicalization. So the engineer gets radicalized. Is he educated? Most assuredly, as an engineer. Perhaps though, not enough to see beyond his own vanity and insecurities and to accept being conned. There's tons of individual cases we cannot track or stop. However, those, in time, will become abhorrent and fringe if you can move the whole society towards civilization and it's rules. Right now, they are in what we used to call the middle age at the end of the dark ages, with all the same indoctrination and fealty and service to the church. And, as stated,the trouble in the main, is from tribal islamic culture. Not so much (but still appears) from westernized (for lack of a better word) islamists.