OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Actually if Jack Layton had survived…
Jagmeet Singh, probably the biggest political loser?
- Thread starter ArmyRick
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Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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He was popular, but I would take Muclair any day over Layton.
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If it was about respect, he would have offered a face-saving way to JS, not just threatening him with a hashtag.
PP & Co. may have great policies, but this is the sort of thing that opens him up to the worry that he's going to bully anyone who's in his way or opposes him. I like to think he and his team are smart enough not to do that, but this sure doesn't help.
Also, if PP wanted to take the high ground, it could have been an appeal to "doing what's right for the country," thus letting them poke on the "he's only staying on until the pension kicks in" narrative if JS turned down such an appeal.
94-96% agree, but it's a fine line between getting a good zinger/hashtag in and looking like you're all bully mode.
I think it would have been a VERY different outcome with the rail strike if either of these guys were the Team Orange coach. At least Layton didn't strike me as someone who would have been afraid to go for a confidence vote over the back-to-work issue.
Mind you, back then (Mulcair or Layton era), I suspect Team Orange was fundraising a fair bit more than $1 for every $2.40 raised by Team Red and $5 raised by Team Blue (based on fundraising reporting for the big three since January 2023: $48.4M total vs $23.5M total vs $9.7M total to the end of June 2024)
IKnowNothing
Army.ca Veteran
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Have you asked Mr. Ruff why he did not endorse him for the leadership?
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I dislike PP’s letter. It is juvenile.
What I dislike even more is the Liberals (and the adjunct NDP) labelling anyone even slightly to the right of them as racist/colonialist/homophobic/hater/etc.
Two wrongs do not make a right. But tolerance was lost long ago by people who should have known better.
I too wish that both sides would debate issues and ideas without ad hominem. But, here we are.
What I dislike even more is the Liberals (and the adjunct NDP) labelling anyone even slightly to the right of them as racist/colonialist/homophobic/hater/etc.
Two wrongs do not make a right. But tolerance was lost long ago by people who should have known better.
I too wish that both sides would debate issues and ideas without ad hominem. But, here we are.
because they care about the problems that Canadians are facing and they want to do something about it? As things stand, they will lose big time next October perhaps percentage wise more than the libs. Their only chance to salvage something even if it is only self-respect to carry forward into the next election is to show themselves as being different from the liberals and to take a principled stand on the very first issue that comes up in the fall. Otherwise they will simply become road kill.
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I think the whole calculation for the LPC and NDP now is to continue to try to tie PP to Trump (who is generally not popular in Canada) and hope that sticks. Ride that back into an election next fall and hope that their vote share is very, very efficient and they can cobble together another “anybody but CPC coalition”. It is not a stupid plan, politically, but it does wear away at the fabric of Canada because it means continually importing arguments and issues from the US which are not necessarily issues here.
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how are they going to do more about problems that Canadians are facing with a Conservative government?
If you are the NDP do you not think that in general the Conservative government would be a negative for Canadians?
Right now there's 24 NDP members, not exactly a big caucus to salvage, they are very vote inefficient. Maybe they fall to 20?
Im just not clear on why people think the NDP should be upset with the Liberal govt as a whole and how they think the NDP could do better in some other way?
There are a bunch of people who specifically want a CPC government RTFN, and who translate that desire into projection into the differing interests of others. That translates into demands for the NDP to collapse the agreement, and attacks on their credibility or legitimacy from people who would never under any circumstances vote for them anyway. There’s an element of fantasy and wishful thinking to it.
I will say this for the Americans: however screwed up their system is, they know that every two years they get to flush all of the house and a third of the Senate, every four years they choose a president, and that president gets eight years max. The predictability at least means they don’t have to deal with “bring down the current government” dynamics in a parliamentary context.
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And in doing so, they (LPC and NDP) are just as guilty of enabling/reinforcing the Americanization of Canadian politics…but they don’t get held to account for it for the most part.
Let’s hypothesize that Harris wins in November…Trudeau is screwed because he loses the Poilievre=Trump trope…
AmmoTech90
Army.ca Veteran
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Yep, very disinterested, seemed like he didn't want to be there. Maybe he didn't, but make an effort.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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Politically involved conservatives are frustrating. I could wish they would leave the "gotcha" political field entirely to progressives.
Micro-insults are pointless, and it is clear from what people say and write in response to some alleged provocation that they often don't listen to or read carefully or properly research whatever it is that prompts their responses. Instead of a "+1 gotcha", they get a "-1 irrelevant rant" from persuadable voters. Presumably these things appeal to "the base", but is "the base" really so fragile that it needs to be constantly fed a diet of outrage directed at strawmen? Again, this is not a failing only of conservatives, but let others look after themselves. Someone who Poilievre respects ought to figuratively slap him silly until he understands the cost of sh!tty tone and imposes sensible discourse on the party.
Nevertheless, the governance we're getting right now is still several orders of magnitude worse than the schoolyard politics.
Micro-insults are pointless, and it is clear from what people say and write in response to some alleged provocation that they often don't listen to or read carefully or properly research whatever it is that prompts their responses. Instead of a "+1 gotcha", they get a "-1 irrelevant rant" from persuadable voters. Presumably these things appeal to "the base", but is "the base" really so fragile that it needs to be constantly fed a diet of outrage directed at strawmen? Again, this is not a failing only of conservatives, but let others look after themselves. Someone who Poilievre respects ought to figuratively slap him silly until he understands the cost of sh!tty tone and imposes sensible discourse on the party.
Nevertheless, the governance we're getting right now is still several orders of magnitude worse than the schoolyard politics.
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Well said, Brad. You said better, what I butchered.
because some of them may have some ethics, or maybe they listen to their constituents? If they are losing support its due to them taking a stand that their normal supporters don't like; they aren't representing their constituents. Since they have been riding the coattails of the libs for the last 2 years, it should be a reasonable assumption that the majority of their voters don't like it. Polls suggest that the majority of Canadians are opposed to the current government so continuing to support them is only going to bring them further down. Voting against the liberals may not save them seats but it just might position them to become the second party and not the third. Pragmatically that will provide them with more house funds, larger staff allocation and better positioning during question period. It might also give them better access to the press. The way they are going now, come the day after election they will be in the same boat as they were the last time they supported a Trudeau.
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in what way do ethics come into play? They were already elected by their constituents and probably 80% at worse will again. What reason is there to think their constituents want them to do something different?
RangerRay
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Right now there is no incentive for the NDP to pull the plug. None, gar nichts, rien, nada, zero. At best, the won’t lose seats, but in all probability they will lose seats. Why pull the plug now for guaranteed downside when you can wait a year for possible upside?
Now having said that, the NDP have been politically inept forever, including Layton and Mulcair. If they really wanted to become THE party of the centre left, they would attack the Liberals and ignore the Tories. By fear-mongering the Tories like they do, they push people in Eastern Canada and the metros to the Liberals, since they are seen as most likely to defeat Tories. When they do do well, it’s because the Liberals are being led by a dud that turns off even Liberal voters (Turner, Ignatieff).
They will continue to prop up Trudeau because right now there are no incentives not to. But if they were politically smart, they would go after the Liberals in next year’s election.
Now having said that, the NDP have been politically inept forever, including Layton and Mulcair. If they really wanted to become THE party of the centre left, they would attack the Liberals and ignore the Tories. By fear-mongering the Tories like they do, they push people in Eastern Canada and the metros to the Liberals, since they are seen as most likely to defeat Tories. When they do do well, it’s because the Liberals are being led by a dud that turns off even Liberal voters (Turner, Ignatieff).
They will continue to prop up Trudeau because right now there are no incentives not to. But if they were politically smart, they would go after the Liberals in next year’s election.
So did mine lol
That is the saddest sentence I have read. Perhaps not really but it certainly ranks right up there. "I am elected now so I can drop the honest facade and revert to my normal lying, cheating womanizing self." And sadly, that is probably the way we look at most of our politicians.
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Well that too, but what ethics case for the NDP to vote against the government do you mean?