Joint Task Force 2 (JTF 2) - Canadian Special Forces

[KevinB]

I got offered a jump / short ex. with a buddy in 20 SFG - but it got canned due to CF not appreciating me arrnaging our own training schedule  :-[

Maybe we can set something up in the fall

 

[rw4th]

Man I think people are way overthinking this tier shit. I believe the concept comes from the supply/financial side and denotes priority for the cool gear and the cash. Tier 1 units get all cool shit and funding first, and the rest trickles on down to tier 2 and tier 3 units.

 

[Infanteer]

Lol, and just to sweeten the confusing ninjasniper pot, here is LtCol Bernd Horn's defintions from this article, worth the read (http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/engraph/Vol5/no3/Special_e.asp)

Seems to me that we have to get General Hillier to sit down and write up an instruction manual on this stuff.... :blotto:

- 'Tier One' SOF consists of primarily 'black operations' or counter terrorism. Normally, only 10 to 15 percent of those attempting selection are successful. What makes this number so impressive is that a large percentage of those trying out are already second or third tier SOF members. Organizations that fall into this category include the US 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment (Delta), the German Grenzschutzgruppe-9 (GSG 9), the Canadian Joint Task Force-2 (JTF 2), and the Polish Commandos (Grupa Reagowania Operacyjno Mobilnego) (GROM) (Operational Mobile Response Group), to name but a few.

- 'Tier Two' SOF reflects those organizations that have a selection pass rate of between 20 and 30 percent. They are normally entrusted with high value tasks such as Strategic Reconnaissance and Unconventional Warfare. It is at this level that selection is separated from training because the skill sets are considered so difficult that the testers are looking only for attributes that cannot be inculcated. The actual skills required can be taught later during the training phase. Some examples include the American Special Forces (also referred to as Green Berets), the US Navy SEALs, and the British, Australian and New Zealand SAS.

- 'Tier Three', consists of those units, such as the American Rangers, that have a selection success rate of 40 to 45 percent, and whose primary mission is Direct Action. At this level, selection is mixed with training. However, the quality control line is drawn here. Generally, units below this line are not considered SOF.

 

[Vigilant]

I read that article too, and found it very interesting and informative. And it fits in with Duey's nomenclature as well..

 

[rw4th]

Lol, and just to sweeten the confusing ninjasniper pot, here is LtCol Bernd Horn's defintions from this article, worth the read (http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/engraph/Vol5/no3/Special_e.asp)

Seems to me that we have to get General Hillier to sit down and write up an instruction manual on this stuff.... :blotto:

- 'Tier One' SOF consists of primarily 'black operations' or counter terrorism. Normally, only 10 to 15 percent of those attempting selection are successful. What makes this number so impressive is that a large percentage of those trying out are already second or third tier SOF members. Organizations that fall into this category include the US 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment (Delta), the German Grenzschutzgruppe-9 (GSG 9), the Canadian Joint Task Force-2 (JTF 2), and the Polish Commandos (Grupa Reagowania Operacyjno Mobilnego) (GROM) (Operational Mobile Response Group), to name but a few.

- 'Tier Two' SOF reflects those organizations that have a selection pass rate of between 20 and 30 percent. They are normally entrusted with high value tasks such as Strategic Reconnaissance and Unconventional Warfare. It is at this level that selection is separated from training because the skill sets are considered so difficult that the testers are looking only for attributes that cannot be inculcated. The actual skills required can be taught later during the training phase. Some examples include the American Special Forces (also referred to as Green Berets), the US Navy SEALs, and the British, Australian and New Zealand SAS.

- 'Tier Three', consists of those units, such as the American Rangers, that have a selection success rate of 40 to 45 percent, and whose primary mission is Direct Action. At this level, selection is mixed with training. However, the quality control line is drawn here. Generally, units below this line are not considered SOF.

So this article is saying that the SAS is not a tier 1 counter terror unit?

 

[Infanteer]

I guess so - I was wondering that as well.

My guess is that, by this defintion, they would be on both Tiers.  However, I see no substantion in the article for this model (to official sources) and see a weakness in that it is based upon attrition rates.

Like I said, we need a damn instruction book or something....

 

[paracowboy]

I say we just go by length of relaxed grooming standards.
Tier 3: while under fire

Tier 2: when in theatre of operations

Tier 1: whenever

Then, we can subdivide further based on length of sideburns and amount of stubble/length of whiskers.

Makes as much sense as everything else I've read.

 

[Infanteer]

You know, that is probably the closest one to date.... :warstory:

 

[Eagle_Eye_View]

Probably SAS is a tier 2 but have a special unit tier 1 (like the navy SEAL which is seal team 6). In my own opinion I think its for funding or someone created it just for competition.
cheers

 

[paracowboy]

thanks, Tips.
SAS has the CRW. They rotate through it. (At least according to my collection of "I was a teenage counter-terrorist" SAS books, from when they were the flavour du jour in the mid-nineties.)

 

[rw4th]

thanks, Tips.
SAS has the CRW. They rotate through it. (At least according to my collection of "I was a teenage counter-terrorist" SAS books, from when they were the flavour du jour in the mid-nineties.)

As of recent accounts, so do units like CAG and JTF.

 

[pappy]

How come no one has mentioned the USMC FORCE RECON units......  granted they don't take orders from SOCOM, they work for the Commandant of the Marine Corps.  ;D
Or theUSMC  FAST units.....

Or the US Air Force Commandos and PJs, I've heard some Air Force high pay grade types are a little peved as many former FORCE RECON guys are heading over to the PJ's, being limited billets iin FORCE RECON units they gotta find a home somewhere. I wonder if this think the FORCE guys are there to take over.....

Damn Kev you live a rock-star lifestyle.....  SOCOM groupie  haha  hey you know I'm just jealous don't come knocking, opps kicking my door in.....
You ever run it to a former 75th Ranger W.O. by the name of Geroge Gouger?  he does (did) a little martial arts training for some various units....  Some great stories that guy has.... and some danm mean moves too

 

[pappy]

some lite bedtime reading.....

http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed.htm
http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed2.htm
http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed3.htm

enjoy...  Semper Fi

 

[KevinB]

pappy - Actually USMC stooped to USSOC  - The MARSOC Det 1
Pat's articles on the FMF Recon are outstanding - and Pat is #1 for weapons training.

Not sure on George G. I admittedly have not met many 75th guys just folks "passing thru" - nor am I a SME of anytype on UA

 

[screaminjimmy]

hell,  if the enemy really wants some info , they can get an account at this site, sit back , relax and enjoy the show.
alas, if we could all just not talk about it.

** we are ALL accountable **

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

heck,   if the enemy really wants some info , they can get an account at this site, sit back , relax and enjoy the show.
alas, if we could all just not talk about it.

** we are ALL accountable **

we are ALL accountable ..Yes we are, but thats why we have Mods to watch for OPSEC and PERSEC violations. WHen we come across it we delete it, if its open source then the enemy can already get access to it. So chill jimmy!

 

[Good2Golf]

Anyone doing a search on the Hill will likely come up with reporter Christine *******'s article with pictures and maps to the Hill and photos of some MPs in a Sub....nice map of nearby area, etc...   

Names, pics, etc... and things that link to them are definitely PERSEC and way off bounds, but the mods dealt with the one case faily well.  I haven't seen anything that puts out more info than VAdm Maddison's videos on the DCDS site re: OPSEC.

I think there is a difference between a poseur (jtf2ninjasnipercommando, etc...) pretending to "hang his MP5 in his stall" and grace us with some veiled speech about how fanatastic he is, and folks chatting about what is no doubt a very professional but also very cool unit and switched on folks.  Not that other folks in the CF aren't doing cool things as well, but the lads represent a bit of the "high speed" life that some folks, both in the CF and in mainstream society want to know about.  So long as OP and PERSEC aren't compromised, I'm glad to see more measured releases (official, that is) occuring about what and where things are happening.  I also think that there will alsways be discussions about the boys, so why not accept the fact and shape your battlespace accordingly...good for the mods "stickying" this in Inf (although  could also go in Joint, n'est-ce pas?  )

There must be a balance between total silence and too much "done this, I'm great, don't cha think?" type of stuff...even the Brits had their "Andy McNab's"...IIRC, it was a 22 Rgt SgtMajor who told his boys to "Keep the dream alive, lads...don't worry about that 'who dares wins' tripe..."  ;D

Cheers,
Duey

 

[mdh]

even the Brits had their "Andy McNab's"...

Just as a side note there have been serious questions raised about the veracity of McNab's account of the Gulf War in his Bravo Two Zero.   Have a look in under military literature where you'll find an excellent - yes I will make a shameless plug for the owner -   ;D   review by Mike Bobbitt on the board if you're interested,

cheers, mdh

 

[paracowboy]

maybe DHTC should run some black psyops. Have adds run showing them sitting around bored, playing cards, doing drill, mopping floors, etc.
Announce that their new uniforms are going to be hot pink and lime green. Show their new vehicles to be Geo Metros.
Might cause some of this silliness surrounding them to die down, and let them get on with doing their job.

 

[McG]

The Devil's Brigade 2
By JACK MACLEOD
Globe and Mail
Monday, July 18, 2005 Page A12

Moncton, N.B. -- Re Jane Taber's speculation on renaming the Joint Task Force 2 (Ottawa Notebook, July 16): The First Canadian Special Service Force (The Devil's Brigade) will hold its final reunion in Alberta next year. The 176 Canadian and American survivors of this famous unit have dedicated their ensign and battle honours to the JTF2 for permanent retention.

The unit should be renamed. How about the Second Canadian Special Service Force?