Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

A country that accepts the idea that contemporary wars are mostly going to be come-as-you-are, and then fails to have much to come with, is making a straightforward statement about the depth of its commitments.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I don’t we should buy things simply because industry produces them, we should but things because they facilitate in operational function we doctrinally out to be able to accomplish.

I’m not a fan of the idea of “reserve vehicles” simply because, as we saw with the AVGP, they end up being use operationally. In all honestly I think there are senator variants that can do some jobs for us, undoubtably better than TAPV, but the base models being sent to Ukraine aren’t them.

They have sent two models to Ukraine as I understand it with improvements based on feedback and have a completely new version either in production or ready to go. I see the Senator as a replacement for the G-wagon, Milcots and LSVW's. Basically uparmouring most of the army without a massive logistically or cost burden.

 

[McG]

We have already signed a contract to replace the LSVW with a truck about the size of an MLVW.

 

[Cloud Cover]

We have already signed a contract to replace the LSVW with a truck about the size of an MLVW.

Is it possible for an army on the cusp of war to have too many trucks, especially what are essentially lower cost disposable trucks?

 

[Czech_pivo]

I'm just going to poke at some arguments/facts here.

The reason a lot of NATO counties are so irritated with Canada is because are finances are actually in amazing shape compared to most of them. Even better then US fiances in most cases (particularly government debt load by GDP). I've done some reading on Canada from outside sources (UK, US, German etc...) and they all point to our economy, all of government debt load and other indicators as being extremely healthy. So to them we can easily afford to spend more. The countries overall finances (including provincial) are fine from outside unbiased perspectives, despite some dumb expendatures. It's not even close to 1991.

So some Canadians think the finances are not in good shape but really, objectively they are fine. The trend line is not the best though.


Harper said the exact same thing and... spent like crazy. There will be some big ticket cutbacks but I suspect that the Carbon tax removal will poke a massive hole in the budget unless they are smart and increase the sales tax.


YES! Finally someone said it. If we don't try to approach 2% how do we think the renewal negotiation with USMCA in a few years is going to look like? If the US starts tieing economic to security policy we are going to get put over a barrel. And a Trump government are going to say it out loud.

They never actually ran the add. It was one of the various scare adds comissioned by them but didn't make the cut to TV as it didn't sell well to the Canadian public (huge surprise). It was leaked to the press though as the Paul Martin Gov't imploded and people started settling scores. And being it was the begining of You tube, well that became pretty damaging.

What is being missed by those Europeans and the Americans is the fact that Provincial debt is NOT considered when looking at the Federal Government debt load by GDP.

When a province like Ontario, with under 16 million people has a total debt of over 415$ billion (26000$/person) - which is up 85% since 2008 - its a major, major concern. When factoring in all the provincial debt into the total debt at the Federal and Provincial levels. The largest single expenditure item in the 2023/24 Ontario budget is meeting the interest payment on that 415$ billion in debt - 13.4$ billion - that's alot of new MRI's, ER doctors/staff, increase in Education spending/infrastructure, etc.

CDN's are taxed at a level that alot of Europeans will cry about and Americans would revolt at.

EDIT:
Adding in the debt of the states of Texas, NY and Ohio - states comparable to Ontario in a number of ways -

As of August 31, 2023 Texas had a total of $70.94 billion in state debt outstanding, including both general obligation and revenue debt.
In the fiscal year of 2022, New York's state debt stood at about 166.51 billion U.S. dollars.
In the fiscal year of 2022, Ohio's state debt stood at about 35.42 billion U.S. dollars.

 

[Loachman]

. . . we also bought a lot of new stock for that which is still with us. Leo2s, M777s, CH-47s, Sperwer . . .

Nope. We gave/sold all of the serviceable kit back to Sagem.

We only retained a few AVs, mainly ones that we had banged up and either partially or fully cosmetically restored, for display purposes. 161007 (the launch was cancelled, and we learnt the hard/comical way that there could be a twenty-second delay between engine shutdown and catapult function; launch looked normal, but then the AV peaked and gracefully descended in best Space Shuttle fashion out of sight behind the perimeter concrete barriers) is on display at the aviation museum in Rockcliffe minus its ball as that was completely smashed up on impact, and 161002 is on display in the museum at Trenton. I have no record of its destruction, so it must have survived intact until the end. I believe that 1 Wing HQ still has possession of one, but still in storage. I don't know about any others. A few nose cowling sections that were decorated with nose art near the end are around in various places.

I ran the final mission on 18 April 2009, launching 161004 at 0023. BGen Chris Coates was in the box with us for a while, but, like everybody else who pitched up for the occasion, drifted away after a while as it was a dead calm night.

Heron took over completely after that, but it was only a rental.

 

[FJAG]

Nope. We gave/sold all of the serviceable kit back to Sagem.

We only retained a few AVs, mainly ones that we had banged up and either partially or fully cosmetically restored, for display purposes. 161007 (the launch was cancelled, and we learnt the hard/comical way that there could be a twenty-second delay between engine shutdown and catapult function; launch looked normal, but then the AV peaked and gracefully descended in best Space Shuttle fashion out of sight behind the perimeter concrete barriers) is on display at the aviation museum in Rockcliffe minus its ball as that was completely smashed up on impact, and 161002 is on display in the museum at Trenton. I have no record of its destruction, so it must have survived intact until the end. I believe that 1 Wing HQ still has possession of one, but still in storage. I don't know about any others. A few nose cowling sections that were decorated with nose art near the end are around in various places.

I ran the final mission on 18 April 2009, launching 161004 at 0023. BGen Chris Coates was in the box with us for a while, but, like everybody else who pitched up for the occasion, drifted away after a while as it was a dead calm night.

Heron took over completely after that, but it was only a rental.

All very true - I should have said "SUAVs" because the Sperwer capability which came into Afghanistan by way of UOR still survives by way of the fully programmed Blackjacks in 4 GS Regt (RCA) in Gagetown. The same can be said for weapon locating radars which came about by way of UOR for ARTHUR but continue on through LCMRs in close support regiments and MRRs at 4 GS.

 

[ytz]

What is being missed by those Europeans and the Americans is the fact that Provincial debt is NOT considered when looking at the Federal Government debt load by GDP.

Even by those measures Canada is behind the US and most of the large European economies, except UK and Germany. See IMF reporting which looks at total public debt (not just the federal government).

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/GG_DEBT_GDP@GDD/CAN/FRA/DEU/ITA/JPN/GBR/USA/ESP

So naturally, there's going to be a bit of anger at where we're at. It's also not just that we're behind. It's that we're behind by a lot. If we were at 1.8%, I doubt we'd be getting the same shaming.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We have already signed a contract to replace the LSVW with a truck about the size of an MLVW.

Which was replaced by a truck bigger than a 5 ton. All the vehicle replacements have been 1 for 2 or a similar number, we need to up the size of the fleet, because trucks and APC have become disposable.

 

[Fabius]

Even by those measures Canada is behind the US and most of the large European economies, except UK and Germany. See IMF reporting which looks at total public debt (not just the federal government).

https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/GG_DEBT_GDP@GDD/CAN/FRA/DEU/ITA/JPN/GBR/USA/ESP

So naturally, there's going to be a bit of anger at where we're at. It's also not just that we're behind. It's that we're behind by a lot. If we were at 1.8%, I doubt we'd be getting the same shaming.

In comparison to Australia or the Nordic countries that are also held up as examples on occasion for various items our debt to GDP is double to triple theirs.

 

[suffolkowner]

We have already signed a contract to replace the LSVW with a truck about the size of an MLVW.

Which was replaced by a truck bigger than a 5 ton. All the vehicle replacements have been 1 for 2 or a similar number, we need to up the size of the fleet, because trucks and APC have become disposable.

What are the final numbers on the LVM/LSVS replacement? Is the LSVS replacement the same as the HSVS? Different axles im assuming? Different wheels?

 

[MilEME09]

What are the final numbers on the LVM/LSVS replacement? Is the LSVS replacement the same as the HSVS? Different axles im assuming? Different wheels?

1500 light trucks 500, heavy trucks to replace the HL, it is a fixed budget procurement so we get what we get

 

[suffolkowner]

1500 light trucks 500, heavy trucks to replace the HL, it is a fixed budget procurement so we get what we get

I think I was just putting together that its exactly the same truck minus 2 drive axles. Which is a little strange but maybe not lol.
The MSVS are running 9 tonne axles and the LVM's are both running 13 tonne axles?

 

[ytz]

In comparison to Australia or the Nordic countries that are also held up as examples on occasion for various items our debt to GDP is double to triple theirs.

Australia is a bit of an outlier. But the Scandinavians keep debt low and defence spending high with very high taxes:

List of sovereign states by tax revenue to GDP ratio - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In other words, their politicians actually convince the public to pay for the services they want. Not to simply run it up on the national credit card.

 

[dimsum]

In comparison to Australia or the Nordic countries that are also held up as examples on occasion for various items our debt to GDP is double to triple theirs.

I was chatting with a Dane fairly recently. He said that he, in the middle class, pays 52% income tax.

 

[ytz]

I was chatting with a Dane fairly recently. He said that he, in the middle class, pays 52% income tax.

Exactly. There's no magic solution here. Low taxes, decent social services, decent military. You can only get two of those at best.

Moreover, some of the Scandinavians use conscription to overcome their manpower problem while building large inventories of kit. Conscription avoids the need to offer competitive compensation.

 

[Kirkhill]

Exactly. There's no magic solution here. Low taxes, decent social services, decent military. You can only get two of those at best.

Moreover, some of the Scandinavians use conscription to overcome their manpower problem while building large inventories of kit. Conscription avoids the need to offer competitive compensation.

Those same Scandinavians compete for conscript slots because the government doesn't need all the conscripts. They also have volunteers offering unpaid service.

Tight little towns with modern services and up to date community halls and sports complexes. High population density has tax benefits as well.

 

[Brad Sallows]

We can have decent social services and defence at our current tax rates. What we can't have is a federal program for everyone who wants something.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Moreover, some of the Scandinavians use conscription to overcome their manpower problem while building large inventories of kit. Conscription avoids the need to offer competitive compensation.

Conscription is a non-starter, but conscription isn't the only way to an annual intake, high churn model for youth as low ranking NCM's. Reserve Reform swerve in 3....2.....

 

[daftandbarmy]

The myth of Scandinavian Socialism enters the chat

The Myth of Scandinavian Socialism

When the U.N. released its latest index of “happiest countries,” it probably came as no surprise to Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez that all of the Scandinavian countries finished in the top ten. They often cite them as models for their far-left policy prescriptions.

www.heritage.org