Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[QV]

I'm just spitballing here, but I think that if the Deputy PM had her way based on the current situation, we'd probably pull a Germany right now.

CF will not be much improvement over JT.

 

[suffolkowner]

I’m just glad we don’t have the architect of Medusa as minister right now

curious if there will be an actual difference in performance and outcomes between the two and why exactly. Is ministerial performance a matter of competence or government priorties

 

[Kirkhill]

More fun with numbers

In 1866 Comms were established. Toronto, Kingston, Montreal, Quebec, St John, Halifax and St John's were all linked to London by telegraph. Instantaneous communications.

In 1867 Confederation ties Toronto, Kingston, Montreal, Quebec, St John and Halifax.
1867 Canada takes over the pre-existing Departments of Public Works

1867 Canada completes Comms with Canada Post ( revenue generator now privatized and not a government endeavour)

1867 Canada secures borders and starts generating revenue by collecting customs and duties at its borders

1867 Canada secures coastal waters and fishing grounds out to the 3-Mile limit.

1868 Thmas D'Arcy McGee, MP, assassinated in Ottawa
1868 Canadian MPs establish the Dominion Police in response
1868 Canadian MPs reinvigorate the pre-existing Militia for the same reason

1871 International pressures and improved communications encourage the British Government to reduce the troop levels in Canada and quit its citadels at Quebec and Kingston and confine their efforts to securing naval stations at Halifax and Esquimalt
1871 Canada stands up two permanent batteries of artillery at Kingston and Quebec as replacements

1872 Comms between Toronto, Canada and Sydney, Australia established via the London, UK exchange when the London to Australia link completed

1873 Canada stands up the North West Mounted Police to secure Rupert's Land, bought from the HBC in 1869
1874 NWMP secures Canada's border territory up to Calgary, Alberta

1876 Canada establishes its own engineering focused Royal Military College at Kingston
1883 Canada establishes the Cavalry School Corps
1883 Canada establishes the Infantry School Corps
1885 Canada establishes the School of Mounted Infantry
1885 Canadian Pacific Railway joins the Pacific to the Atlantic at Craigellachie

1885 RN Esquimalt, BC linked to RN Sydney, Australia by way of RN Halifax, NS and the London UK HQ of the RN.

1902 RN Esquimalt connected by a direct link to RN Sydney, Australia.
1902 RN has instantaneous global wired comms with redundancy.
1902 Civilians benefit from the facility just as they benefited in earlier centuries from the Royal Mail - and they willingly paid for access to the service - revenue generator.

1905 Alberta and Saskatchewan spawned from the Northwest Territories that had been bought from the London registered Huguenot firm, the HBC.

1931 Canada gets its own foreign policy with the Westminster Statutes

The reason for the potted history? I don't want any arguments about seniority when I post the following list.


Engagement with the World

Global Affairs Canada - 12,503 FTE (Full Time Equivalents on the payroll)
Polar Knowledge - 95 FTE
CSA (Space Agency) - 787 FTE
CSE (Comms) - 2,752
DFO - CCG - 13,000 FTE
CBSA - 14,932 FTE
CIRNA (Northern Affairs) - 1,962 FTE


Internal Affairs

PWGSC - 17,106 FTE
PWGSC (Total DND seconded to PWGSC) - 19,336 FTE
PWGSC (DND seconded to PWGSC for Bases) - 16,493 FTE
PWGSC (DND seconded to PWGSC for Procurement) - 2,843 FTE
Transport Canada - 6,460 FTE
CTSB - 227 FTE
CTA - 187 FTE

Public Safety Canada - 1,200 FTE
CSIS - 3,200 FTE
NSIRA - 100 FTE
NSIC (Parliamentary) - 10 FTE
Office Int Comm - 10 FTE
RCMP Watchdogs - 110 FTE
Off Correctional Investigator - 41 FTE
PBC (Parole Board) - 512 FTE
CSC (Correctional Services) - 18,268 FTE

RCMP - 31,562 FTE

DND - Operational Forces - 3,078 FTE

DND - Ready Forces - 46,716 FTE

DND Defence Team - 18,059 FTE
DND Internal Services - 4,470 FTE
Future Force Design - 2,088 FTE
DND Staff in Total - 24,617 FTE


Or to look at it another way :

Of the total DND allocation of people - 93,745 FTE

DND in PWGSC - 19,336 FTE (21% of Allocation)
DND Staff - 24,617 FTE (26% of Allocation)

Ready Forces - 46,716 FTE (50% of Allocation)

Operational/Active/Deployed Forces - 3,078 FTE (3% of Allocation)


Is that all that the Government asks of DND?
Or is that all that DND can deliver?
Or is it one and the same?

I am going to suggest some untapped/under utilized resources.

Canadian Rangers (actually gainfully employed as an Observer Corps where the highways don't run) - 5,000 authorized
Primary Reserve (Part Time Paid Volunteers) - 28,500 authorized
Supplementary Reserve (Released but with skills) - 19,000 maybe

Veterans - 617,800 released soldiers
Not all of them are old, or unfit.
I suggest at least some of them are finding their way to Ukraine now.
Should the Supplementary Reserve List and the Veterans lists be melded to keep track of soldiers with skills that would be willing to volunteer when and if?

Militia Graduates - 313,500
28,500 Canadians serve with the Militia (Primary Reserve) for, on average, 3 years. Then they move on to other things. Some join the Regs but what happens to the rest?
313,500 comes from all those Canadians that served in the Militia for 3 years, released at about age 22 and are still under the age of 55.

Cadets, including instructors and Junior Rangers -
Obviously I am not suggesting using these kids as Child Soldiers

But where do the 65,071 cadets in the system annually go once they have quit the Cadets after, again, about 3 years, once they discover boyfriends, girlfriends and cars at about age 15?

If a corps of 28,500 Primary Reservists generates a body of 313,500 people that have some military training and once upon a time were willing to consider soldiering

How many like minded individuals could be found from 65,071 cadets? 867,613.

What useable skills could be found among 617,800 Veterans, 313,500 Militia Graduates and 867,613 ex Cadets?

A pool of 1,798,913.

Are we sure there is no way to profitably engage as least some of that number and enhance, if not the Ready Force then perhaps the Supplementary List? Maybe there is a way to engage some of that number in the skills that we see are needed in Ukraine but are not conventionally thought of as military skills.


Tortuous Ramble Ends....

 

[Kirkhill]

I'll believe it when I see it. Maybe this Russian action has shook the post modernist fairy tale world

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

 

[Kirkhill]

Don't discount the possibility of a split appearing between Liberal Doves and Hawks.

IIRC that the German invasions of 1939/40 tore a few ruling governments apart over similar disagreements.

Which reminds me, I'll have to stock up on some fresh beer so I can be properly equipped to watch any potential upcoming internecine struggles!

Nor the possibility that the well-meaning doves, can have a change of heart. Especially if their basic beliefs are challenged.

Sometimes converts, proverbially, end up "more Catholic than the Pope".

People are strange.

 

[Remius]

curious if there will be an actual difference in performance and outcomes between the two and why exactly. Is ministerial performance a matter of competence or government priorties

I would say competence over gvt priorities. One can still be competent in a department despite gvt priorities. And it would seem that the best COA is to send your most competent types when something is a priority. The last thing we need is incompetence when something becomes a priority due to outside forces beyond our control.

Strangely and by coincidence we got what appears to be a competent one exactly because fixing the CAF sexual misconduct and leadership issue became a priority. It just so happened that this crisis happened on her watch. Lucky us. Hopefully it will lead to some much needed changes but we’ll see.

 

[Kirkhill]

UK MINDEF wants to raise the budget from 2.3% of GDP to 3.5% to match the US.

Britain should increase defence spending to the same level as the US, Jeremy Hunt has proposed, as he declared: “Peace comes from strength, not luck.”

Writing for The Telegraph, the former foreign secretary called the invasion of Ukraine “the biggest failure of Western foreign and security policy in our lifetimes”.

“It happened because we forgot the most fundamental lesson of the Cold War: the power of deterrence,” he said.

By “announcing they would not intervene” if Russia invaded Ukraine, the UK and US undercut their attempted deterrence, he argued.

“Instead of peace through strength we caused war through weakness,” he wrote.

Jeremy Hunt calls for massive boost in UK defence spending

Writing for The Telegraph, former foreign secretary says peace comes from strength, not luck, as Russian invaders close in on Kyiv

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[suffolkowner]

I would say competence over gvt priorities. One can still be competent in a department despite gvt priorities. And it would seem that the best COA is to send your most competent types when something is a priority. The last thing we need is incompetence when something becomes a priority due to outside forces beyond our control.

Strangely and by coincidence we got what appears to be a competent one exactly because fixing the CAF sexual misconduct and leadership issue became a priority. It just so happened that this crisis happened on her watch. Lucky us. Hopefully it will lead to some much needed changes but we’ll see.

Hopefully were not reading too much into this. I fear the greatest impediment to any improvement will be the CAF itself and the CDS as it has been in the past

 

[Halifax Tar]

Hopefully were not reading too much into this. I fear the greatest impediment to any improvement will be the CAF itself and the CDS as it has been in the past

Agree.

 

[Good2Golf]

Hopefully were not reading too much into this. I fear the greatest impediment to any improvement will be the CAF itself and the CDS as it has been in the past

A contributing factor, to be sure, and primarily the battle between the relatively introspective environmental/service stovepipes and the joint force development trying to work the larger picture. ECS can still have huge impact that can either help or hider the overall effort…

Whiiiiiich brings us to the Central Agencies…PCO (and PMO), TB(and TBS), PWGSC, Finance and to a lesser degree GAC and DOJ. Anyone who thinks it’s all DND/CAF hasn’t spent weeks/months answering TBS stoplight question packages deliberately used to throttle DND’s progress and guide things the way the Board members (five of the most powerful Cabinet Members in Government) want (where, how much and when). No one involved anywhere in the entire process should be getting a pass for good behaviour in procurement.

 

[OldSolduer]

I'll believe it when I see it. Maybe this Russian action has shook the post modernist fairy tale world

Same.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

View attachment 69399

Hope she doesn’t get fired for saying that…

Make me a reasonable offer and maybe you could convince me to stay , I'm thinking at least 50k retention bonus , maybe a little higher to account for inflationary pressures.

It isn't unreasonable seeing as how they spent $$$$$millions of dollars training me in different trades.

I mean if Chrystia Freeland and co offered me enough money, they could even get me to set foot in but the money would need to make putting my neck on the line worth it.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Make me a reasonable offer and maybe you could convince me to stay , I'm thinking at least 50k retention bonus , maybe a little higher to account for inflationary pressures.

It isn't unreasonable seeing as how they spent $$$$$millions of dollars training me in different trades.

I mean if Chrystia Freeland and co offered me enough money, they could even get me to set foot in but the money would need to make putting my neck on the line worth it.

Welcome to the private sector.

Your passionate, life story fulfilling project is worth exactly what you are willing to pay me to ensure that you can achieve it and not, like the other three times you tried, failing miserably.

Meanwhile, I'll be over here working with other people who know what my services are worth

 

[Furniture]

Make me a reasonable offer and maybe you could convince me to stay , I'm thinking at least 50k retention bonus , maybe a little higher to account for inflationary pressures.

It isn't unreasonable seeing as how they spent $$$$$millions of dollars training me in different trades.

I mean if Chrystia Freeland and co offered me enough money, they could even get me to set foot in but the money would need to make putting my neck on the line worth it.

I'm sure the "the CAF is paid extremely well for people with a high school education" responses will be coming shortly, as they always do.

The eventual 1.5-2.5% per year pay increases, that will come in three years, will keep people around and happy...

What I find interesting is that despite rising housing costs, nobody up the chain decided to look into building more/better barracks, apartments, and RHUs. It wasn't hard to see that eventually housing costs would reach a point that the average CAF member wouldn't be able to buy into the market if they weren't already in. Occupations are already facing issues with not being able to move people because they can't afford to live in the location we want them to go to. Recruiting 50K more people won't help us if they all release within the first 4-5 years because we moved them places they can't afford to live.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I'm sure the "the CAF is paid extremely well for people with a high school education" responses will be coming shortly, as they always do.

The eventual 1.5-2.5% per year pay increases, that will come in three years, will keep people around and happy...

What I find interesting is that despite rising housing costs, nobody up the chain decided to look into building more/better barracks, apartments, and RHUs. It wasn't hard to see that eventually housing costs would reach a point that the average CAF member wouldn't be able to buy into the market if they weren't already in. Occupations are already facing issues with not being able to move people because they can't afford to live in the location we want them to go to. Recruiting 50K more people won't help us if they all release within the first 4-5 years because we moved them places they can't afford to live.

The 50k resigning bonus is essentially a downpayment on a Condo where I live atm. So I don't think it's even that unreasonable a request if they aren't going to be able to provide me with suitable accommodation

 

[MilEME09]

I'm sure the "the CAF is paid extremely well for people with a high school education" responses will be coming shortly, as they always do.

The eventual 1.5-2.5% per year pay increases, that will come in three years, will keep people around and happy...

What I find interesting is that despite rising housing costs, nobody up the chain decided to look into building more/better barracks, apartments, and RHUs. It wasn't hard to see that eventually housing costs would reach a point that the average CAF member wouldn't be able to buy into the market if they weren't already in. Occupations are already facing issues with not being able to move people because they can't afford to live in the location we want them to go to. Recruiting 50K more people won't help us if they all release within the first 4-5 years because we moved them places they can't afford to live.

Agreed, more PMQs, and apartment style barracks for single folks . We need to realize that the Canadian housing market needs to be out of the picture for CAF bases. We have tons of land, not the budget or the will.

 

[Furniture]

The 50k resigning bonus is essentially a downpayment on a Condo where I live atm. So I don't think it's even that unreasonable a request if they aren't going to be able to provide me with suitable accommodation

Agreed, more PMQs, and apartment style barracks for single folks . We need to realize that the Canadian housing market needs to be out of the picture for CAF bases. We have tons of land, not the budget or the will.

I'm sure the CAF will create a new two star position to investigate possible solutions to retention, and get back to us all in 15-30 years.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm sure the CAF will create a new two star position to investigate possible solutions to retention, and get back to us all in 15-30 years.

That, unfortunately, is exactly what we do.

 

[dimsum]

What I find interesting is that despite rising housing costs, nobody up the chain decided to look into building more/better barracks, apartments, and RHUs.

Do those fall under DND/CAF specifically? Is RP Ops or CFHA under the purview of the co-located base commander? Specifically, can the military side of the chain even do anything about this?

I'm serious - last time I was at a Wing, the WComd said he would love to build more accommodations, but it wasn't his call. Mind you, it was a while ago and I probably had a few drinks then, so I may have misheard.

 

[MilEME09]

Do those fall under DND/CAF specifically? Is RP Ops or CFHA under the purview of the co-located base commander? Specifically, can the military side of the chain even do anything about this?

I'm serious - last time I was at a Wing, the WComd said he would love to build more accommodations, but it wasn't his call. Mind you, it was a while ago and I probably had a few drinks then, so I may have misheard.

My understanding is infrastructure is under one organization, same with housing, which has been under funded.