Kalashnikov still the best?

[teddy49]

Yeah Big Red is talking about the SIG rifles.  We work for the same company, and I'm the guy who has to try to build good guns from the bad ones.  We've had some peculiar failures.  We've had the bolt carrier crack.  Broken Op rods.  The gas tube that came apart.  The most frustraiting failure was the broken rivet that held in the cocking handle retaining catch.  We have a $1700US rifle that's useless because a 1/2 cent part broke, and now we can't cock the rifle.  I'm a big SIG rifle fan, I have 2 at home, but these failures tell me that despite how good they shoot, they're not developed enough for serious use.  Which kind of pisses me off cause I personally have 6 grand invested in the things.  Oh well, I new I kept my AR-15 for a reason.

 

[teddy49]

"Surprisingly it's the rifles we've had some problems with. Things like a gas tube sheared in half, bolt carrier cracked and seized inside of a receiver, etc.  Problems you wouldn't expect from a rifle that retails for 3k in Canada."

- M855 Ball should not be that different from the Swiss 5.6mm GP-90, nor Mk 262 for pressure.  What gives? 

Well most of the ammo here is marked as M855, but most of it is pretty dodgy and of indeterminate origin.  I think if we could get some kind of shock buff to go on the spring guide to keep the carrier and op rod from hammering into the spring guide base plate and the back of the receiver, we could solve a lot of the problems.  Keep in mind that we use the 552 version hear with the 8.9 inch barrel, so the pressures we're dealing with are a lot higher than with a Swiss Arms PE-90 or CQB model.  To be honest though it just seems to show a lack of development.

 

[GINge!]

As for the AK guru himself, ole M.T. Kalashnikov, himself, take a look at the MP43/44, and you'll see where he got his ideas from, that and from other captured German engineers. I rate him as a 2/10, nothing more than a copycat, and way over rated.

Agreed 100%.

 

[HItorMiss]

Teddy, Big Red.

You believe this to a be a failure of the rifle to deal with the gas regulations, as in not being dissipated properly and stressing the action beyond what was thought of during development?
I ask because I am no expert and information is power were I to run into the same issue.

 

[teddy49]

Teddy, Big Red.

You believe this to a be a failure of the rifle to deal with the gas regulations, as in not being dissipated properly and stressing the action beyond what was thought of during development?
I ask because I am no expert and information is power were I to run into the same issue.

Short barrel gas operated Semi Auto, or Full Auto rifles typically have more severe pressure curves than their longer counterparts.  This is due to the gas ports being closer to the chamber, and thus the fired cartridge, than on the full length version.  This can be an advantage in rifles with dwell time issues (dwell time is the time between when the bullet passes the gas port, and when it leaves the barrel.  Typically, the longer the dwell time, the more reliable the rifle.  Though this rule, is countered by the law of diminishing returns.  There are exceptions to this rule as well.  The M-1 Garand, which has it's gas port at the muzzle, springs immediately to mind.)  such as the SIG 552/Swiss Arms Commando or 10, 10.5, 11 inch AR-15/M-16 series rifles.  The higher pressure will help get gas down the tube, and cycle the rifle.

But it also means that Short Barreled Rifles put more stress on their working parts because due to that higher pressure, they cycle much more quickly and violently.  This is because not only does the gas have more pressure but also less distance to travel, down the barrel and back down the gas tube as well.  This will effect direct gas rifles more significantly than rifles that use a piston/operating rod mechanism.  Many designers incorporate heavier components in the shorter rifles to counteract this, ie; the shorter AR/M-16 series will typically use a heavier buffer than the full length versions.  This of course, takes more energy to move and slows down the action, reducing cyclic rate on full auto versions, and reducing the stress placed on the moving bits.

Now I don't have a scale, or a comparable 550/551 bolt carrier, but I would be that the 552 bolt carrier, due to the way it's constructed, is actually lighter than the longer version's bolt carriers.  That combined with the higher gas pressures has me betting that the 552s are beating themselves to death.  It's causing a lot consternation among our shooters, that some of them have told me they're contemplating carrying their AKs again, instead of the SIGs.  Incidentally, our company recently stopped buying the SIGs and started purchasing the Zastava M-21.  A Serbian built 5.56 AK.  But I think that was more to do with cost than anything.

HitorMiss, I hope this helps.

 

[HItorMiss]

Thanks Teddy.

Yup that about covers what I didn't know or what I suspected you might get at. Your reply is very helpful.

Again thank you.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In line with S_Baker...I am quite surprised by this, unless it was misinterpreted during the article. I was (still am) unaware that the United States or any company within its contracts manufactured the Automat Kalashnikov, in any variant.

I think Robinson Arms does

http://www.robarm.com/

Keep in mind also that when you compare the M16 or C7 to the AK, the M16/C7 has been well cared for by both a trained soldier and weapons tech. Whereas the AK on the other side might be older than either of the combatants and may not have been completely maintained for years, causing the already generous tolerances to be completely slack.

The same can be said for the ammunition, although I will give credit to the Russian sardine can style of packing ammo.

I would not want to fight a well trained soldier using a well maintained AK or M16 variant.

If I was running a rag tag army, I know that I would take the AK over the M16 for all of the reason mentioned in this thread.

I am looking forward to a M16 using a 6.8mm or similar round, although the 7.62x39 version also sounds interesting.