Leadership: Opposition Poilievre v. PM Carney [Split from The vibe shift, end of "wokeness"?]

[ArmyRick]

PMMC has a far wider and more diverse network than a younger career politician

If you read my comments, I don't dispute that. Being a national leader is more than just good excellent international networks.

 

[Czech_pivo]

How so? What is this guess based on? Yes, we know I strongly support Pierre but I am asking, what is this guess based on?

Everywhere Pierre goes in Canada and abroad, he is very friendly and comfortable talking to people. So not at all sure why you think this.

Let’s see.
Carney knows Finland’s President from before when they both worked in international finance.
Carney know France’s Macron from their time working for Goldman Sachs together
Carney’s deputy when at the Bank of England was the guy who is the new economic advisor to the new UK PM.
Carney knows Germany’s Chancellor Merz from when he ran Black Rock’s European division.

PP can be friendly when talking with people but he’s never worked in the business world, either inside or outside of Canada - thus he’s more than likely got no one to contact at these levels.

 

[ArmyRick]

thus he’s more than likely got no one to contact at these levels.

More than likely is not most definitely. And who in the CPC caucus knows who? It is a team not one guy. You don't know what you don't know.

 

[ArmyRick]

Let’s see.
Carney knows Finland’s President from before when they both worked in international finance.
Carney know France’s Macron from their time working for Goldman Sachs together
Carney’s deputy when at the Bank of England was the guy who is the new economic advisor to the new UK PM.
Carney knows Germany’s Chancellor Merz from when he ran Black Rock’s European division.

PP can be friendly when talking with people but he’s never worked in the business world, either inside or outside of Canada - thus he’s more than likely got no one to contact at these levels.

And by that logic, Trump knows almost the whole damn world's list of billionaires, so does that make him an excellent leader with his LARGER network? I don't think so.

Having a large and valuable network is good IF you can effectively use it.

And lets be frank, it was another chance to take a shot at Poilievre. Thats fine, just be clear about it.

 

[Czech_pivo]

And by that logic, Trump knows almost the whole damn world's list of billionaires, so does that make him an excellent leader with his LARGER network? I don't think so.

Having a large and valuable network is good IF you can effectively use it.

And lets be frank, it was another chance to take a shot at Poilievre. Thats fine, just be clear about it.

It was not.
It simply the case that one is better connected around the world than other.
Life experiences, in many different settings, in many different places makes a difference.
Am I a completely different person today because I left my home city over 30yrs ago and have lived and worked in 4 other countries besides Canada and have lived in a number of different cities in Ontario vs staying in my home city and working for the same company (like my father did for 42yrs) for the last 30+yrs? 100% yes. I see it and experience it every time I go back ‘home’ to visit my Dad, brother and friends who never left.
PP has done only the job as an MP for his entire career, all within the same city. He doesn’t have the knowledge and experience of what to do in a formal business meeting in Japan, in Finland, in Germany, as one of many many examples. He has nothing comparable to draw upon.

 

[ArmyRick]

He doesn’t have the knowledge and experience of what to do in a formal business meeting in Japan, in Finland, in Germany, as one of many many examples.

The world of politics is NOT just business meetings

Defence, crime, justice, energy, internal and external trade, environmental management, health care, etc. A government is WAY more than just business meetings.

Again, what do you know of the CPC team? I suspect you don't know much about his Mps and their experience.

More importantly, can PM MC leverage that international network to Canada's advantage? Thats what matters.

I remember when he said he could handle Trump during the campaign, and so far, thats one glaring failure.

 

[ArmyRick]

I see it and experience it every time I go back ‘home’ to visit my Dad, brother and friends who never left.

Our mayor in Grey Highlands, Paul McQueen is an excellent mayor, leader and businessman. And he has lived his whole life here in this rural town. He is in his 50s.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The world of politics is NOT just business meetings

Defence, crime, justice, energy, internal and external trade, environmental management, health care, etc. A government is WAY more than just business meetings.

Again, what do you know of the CPC team? I suspect you don't know much about his Mps and their experience.

More importantly, can PM MC leverage that international network to Canada's advantage? Thats what matters.

I remember when he said he could handle Trump during the campaign, and so far, thats one glaring failure.

I know and respect 1 MP - Mike Chong - and would support him if he held in check the religious segment of the current CPC, just like Carney has clamped down hard on the anti-oil side of the Liberal party.
Mike was my MP at on time in the past and we have similar old PC contacts/friends from our youth.
Mike also worked in the business world previously and knows the lay of the land.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Our mayor in Grey Highlands, Paul McQueen is an excellent mayor, leader and businessman. And he has lived his whole life here in this rural town. He is in his 50s.

And I wouldn’t expect him to know how to act in a formal business meeting in Asia, Latin America, the Middle East, Africa and parts of Europe.
When he’s in his own depth and environment I’m sure he’s rock solid and someone you’d want in your corner.

 

[ArmyRick]

I know and respect 1 MP - Mike Chong

From a conversation I have had with my MP when he was visiting my farm, Mike is very loyal to Pierre. Take that for what it is worth.

check the religious segment of the current CPC

Ohhh? Are they pushing religious bills all the time? Hell, the CBC doesn't even bring this up and they are rabidly anti-CBC

When he’s in his own depth and environment

Now, you hit the nail on the head. EVERYONE has their strengths and limitations. PM MC has a very international and monetary based experiences to draw from. He speaks well to the bloomberg agencies but has struggled when dealing with MSM on issues not within his comfort zone.

On that note, Pierre is pretty much a better public orator than Mark.

 

[Jarnhamar]

He doesn’t have the knowledge and experience of what to do in a formal business meeting in Japan, in Finland, in Germany, as one of many many examples. He has nothing comparable to draw upon.

What would you do if you had a formal business meeting in Finland and you didn't know the etiquette?

 

[Good2Golf]

If you read my comments, I don't dispute that. Being a national leader is more than just good excellent international networks.

It also includes such details as getting elected as the national leader…

 

[Czech_pivo]

What would you do if you had a formal business meeting in Finland and you didn't know the etiquette?

I'd reach out to my other European business contacts and ask them what should I expect.

• drinking/dinner
• possible out to a sauna (which means co-ed potentially and being naked)
• being 'German' in terms of being on time and not wasting their time
• proper way to address someone for the first time

I learned first hand when working in the old Czech Republic (along with alot of Central Europe in the mid/late 90s), that 'titles' and 'degrees' mean ALOT when being introduced - correctly addressing someone when you meet them for the first time - such as - 'vazeny pane doktore Novak' or 'pane ing Sedlack' - it would be considered extremely rude to meet someone for the first time and say 'pane Novak' - you must address them using their highest title. When they would hand you their business card (no clue if this is still the case 30yrs later), you take the time to actually read it and make small talk about their school, programme, area of interest. Lastly, again 30yrs age, you need to be ready to go out to dinner and drinking after a successful meeting, late night and lots of alcohol.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Now, you hit the nail on the head. EVERYONE has their strengths and limitations. PM MC has a very international and monetary based experiences to draw from. He speaks well to the bloomberg agencies but has struggled when dealing with MSM on issues not within his comfort zone.

On that note, Pierre is pretty much a better public orator than Mark.

With Canada under siege economically right now from the US and our need to diversity/reduce our economy to rely less on the US and be spread more evenly across the world, I think you just invertedly endorsed MC. Having a person with these international contacts and world wide business respect and ability to open those doors is exactly what is needed at this time.

Maybe in 6-8yrs once the table has been successfully set and our economy has been able to pivot away and diversify successfully from the US and the CAF is well on it way to being enlarged, re-equipped, re-stocked and that has been enshrined/locked in place going forward, we can then look at PP to lead the country after the ship has already been righted and steadied.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It was not.
It simply the case that one is better connected around the world than other.
Life experiences, in many different settings, in many different places makes a difference.
Am I a completely different person today because I left my home city over 30yrs ago and have lived and worked in 4 other countries besides Canada and have lived in a number of different cities in Ontario vs staying in my home city and working for the same company (like my father did for 42yrs) for the last 30+yrs? 100% yes. I see it and experience it every time I go back ‘home’ to visit my Dad, brother and friends who never left.
PP has done only the job as an MP for his entire career, all within the same city. He doesn’t have the knowledge and experience of what to do in a formal business meeting in Japan, in Finland, in Germany, as one of many many examples. He has nothing comparable to draw upon.

I just want to be certain that from now on being critical of a politicians career, or lack there of, before politics is a corner stone of how we're choosing a leader ? And a topic open for debate and criticism from here on out ?

I ask for clarification because some of us on this site have been chastised in the past for being critical of JTs work experience before politics by some familiar names in this thread.

 

[brihard]

Professional background and what skills, knowledge and experience a contender for political leadership brings to the table have always been fair game, as long as they’re characterized honestly and the discussion’s in good faith. People may not always like that, but it’s in play.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I just want to be certain that from now on being critical of a politicians career, or lack there of, before politics is a corner stone of how we're choosing a leader ? And a topic open for debate and criticism from here on out ?

I ask for clarification because some of us on this site have been chastised in the past for being critical of JTs work experience before politics by some familiar names in this thread.

I gladly would be one questioning JT's lack of experience pre-politics as well, it was abysmal.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Mid level executives and individual board members do not ‘control the banks’, or other major institutions. There’s nothing demonstrable in his history of working in finance that supports this hyperbole.

Regarding China- frankly, to call them ‘communist’ at this point is laughable, notwithstanding the party name. While there’s a lot of central state interference in the economy, private enterprise drives their economy. They just have a different rule set to play by.

Actually the CCP has had problems with young communists who expect their leaders to act as communists. But your statement proves my point. These types want the great unwashed to follow the creed and pay homage to them, while they enjoy the high life. I see very little real effort on the resource front that gives me any faith that he will turn away from the leftwing of his party. Taking a soft anti-US stand is good for his street cred with much of the left. The military support is a necessity that circumstance forces him and the party to do so. It is not their preferred option. The main reason he looks so competent, is that he replaced a totally imbecilic and the only reason he was given the job was that the imbecilic threatened the party's hold on power, not the harm the idiot was doing to the country. That power bloc is still in control and our current PM is very much one of the faithful.

 

[brihard]

Actually the CCP has had problems with young communists who expect their leaders to act as communists. But your statement proves my point. These types want the great unwashed to follow the creed and pay homage to them, while they enjoy the high life. I see very little real effort on the resource front that gives me any faith that he will turn away from the leftwing of his party. Taking a soft anti-US stand is good for his street cred with much of the left. The military support is a necessity that circumstance forces him and the party to do so. It is not their preferred option. The main reason he looks so competent, is that he replaced a totally imbecilic and the only reason he was given the job was that the imbecilic threatened the party's hold on power, not the harm the idiot was doing to the country. That power bloc is still in control and our current PM is very much one of the faithful.

Ok. This has shifted well beyond what I was discussing, so I’ll acknowledge you getting back to me, but I don’t think I’ll explore that rabbit hole further.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I gladly would be one questioning JT's lack of experience pre-politics as well, it was abysmal.

I actually believe you, and I wasn't meaning to make you the focal point, I was just using your post as an example.