Legal Cannabis Use in the CAF

[Stoker]

Adding for reference to the discussion.

People smoking marijuana who have bouts of pain and vomiting can cure it ...by not smoking marijuana.

QUOTE

April 5, 2018

The New York Times
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/well/a-perplexing-marijuana-side-effect-relieved-by-hot-showers.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

END QUOTE

Don't you know that's a myth perpetuated by big pharma.

 

[mariomike]

Don't you know that's a myth perpetuated by big pharma.

I just know what I read in the papers. That's an alibi for my ignorance. 

 

[Stoker]

I just know what I read in the papers. That's an alibi for my ignorance. 

Would that be the High Times or the New York Times ;D

 

[ModlrMike]

Cannabis Hyperemmesis Syndrome has been described in the literature since 1974. This is not a new phenomenon. The new thing is the frequency with which it turns up in the ER.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Kids today are allergic to everything. ;D

Given the amount of people that partake and the amount of people that present with symtoms, that is a hugely large gap. All kinds of people have unexpected reactions to all kinds of things. Some people get reactions from food or drink or nature.

Cannabis Hyperemmesis Syndrome is well known in the community. Take a hot shower.

 

[Stoker]

Kids today are allergic to everything. ;D

Given the amount of people that partake and the amount of people that present with symtoms, that is a hugely large gap. All kinds of people have unexpected reactions to all kinds of things. Some people get reactions from food or drink or nature.

Cannabis Hyperemmesis Syndrome is well known in the community. Take a hot shower.

Pathogenesis

Various pathogenic mechanistic theories attempting to explain symptoms have been put forward. These theories follow two themes: 1) dose dependent buildup of cannabinoids and related effects of cannabinoid toxicity, and 2) the functionality of cannabinoid receptors in the brain and particularly in the hypothalamus (which regulates body temperature and the digestive system). But the mechanisms by which cannabis causes or controls nausea and the adverse consequences of long-term cannabis toxicity remain unknown and organic disease should not be ruled out as a possible cause.

Treatment

Many traditional medications for nausea and vomiting are ineffective. However, treatment with lorazepam or haloperidol has provided relief for some people. Assessing for dehydration due to vomiting and hot showers is important as it can lead to cannabinoid hyperemesis acute renal failure (CHARF), and this is easily treated with IV fluids. Treatment is otherwise supportive and focuses on stopping cannabis use.

Prognosis

Acute episodes of cannabinoid hyperemesis typically last for 24–48 hours and the problem often resolves with long term stopping of cannabis use. Improvement can take one to three months to occur.

Relapses are common, and this is thought to be possibly secondary to a lack of education as many people use or increase their use of cannabis due to their symptoms of nausea and vomiting.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Pathogenesis

Various pathogenic mechanistic theories attempting to explain symptoms have been put forward. These theories follow two themes: 1) dose dependent buildup of cannabinoids and related effects of cannabinoid toxicity, and 2) the functionality of cannabinoid receptors in the brain and particularly in the hypothalamus (which regulates body temperature and the digestive system). But the mechanisms by which cannabis causes or controls nausea and the adverse consequences of long-term cannabis toxicity remain unknown and organic disease should not be ruled out as a possible cause.

Treatment

Many traditional medications for nausea and vomiting are ineffective. However, treatment with lorazepam or haloperidol has provided relief for some people. Assessing for dehydration due to vomiting and hot showers is important as it can lead to cannabinoid hyperemesis acute renal failure (CHARF), and this is easily treated with IV fluids. Treatment is otherwise supportive and focuses on stopping cannabis use.

Prognosis

Acute episodes of cannabinoid hyperemesis typically last for 24–48 hours and the problem often resolves with long term stopping of cannabis use. Improvement can take one to three months to occur.

Relapses are common, and this is thought to be possibly secondary to a lack of education as many people use or increase their use of cannabis due to their symptoms of nausea and vomiting.

Thanks for the cut and paste. Gives a nice synopsis of the condition.

Was there a point, or just info?

 

[Stoker]

Thanks for the cut and paste. Gives a nice synopsis of the condition.

Was there a point, or just info?

No just to point out what it is as some may not have known.

 

[TQMS]

Para 4 cut straight from the Armed Forces Management Board - Record of Discussion. Dated 27 March 2018.

 

[Shrek1985]

Well, given as the Military is so terrified of public opinion, let's all go out and ask randoms what they think of soldiers getting stoned and I think we'll have our answer pretty quick.

Any partial prohibition on cannabis use in the CF will be the most unenforceable order in the past decade.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Any partial prohibition on cannabis use in the CF will be the most unenforceable order in the past decade.

Curious as to why you think that.  Alcohol is sold in various locations around Canada, and it's use is controlled and/or restricted for military people based on known effects on performance, etc.  We have alcohol misuse corrective measures based on policy such as DAOD 5019-7:

RCAF - 12 hours bottle to throttle rule is always in effect.  Additionally, orders recently came out restricting the use of alcohol to 2 drink per a 12 hour period while on operations (if permitted at all) and now on exercises.  Even if a crew is off the flying schedule for 36 hours - 2 per. 

If the CAF can restrict the use of alcohol, why would it be different for legalized dope?

Of course, we'll have to wait to see what the actual policy is, but at a recent Townhall, it was brought up and while no examples were given, it was suggested that the policy might restrict some trades/classifications more than others (is there a safe level of consumption for a HR Admin compared to a SAR Tech, based on the requirements of their duties) and, like alcohol, during deployments, etc.

 

[CountDC]

anyone else find the RCN concern a bit funny.  Seems to me to be simple enough - regulation would be if it is not legal in the country you are visiting then you do not get to do it.  Better yet ban it completely from the ship as an operational safety factor.  Unlike having a drink where you are the only one affected having a puff affects everyone around you that ends up breathing in the fumes. 

 

[ModlrMike]

anyone else find the RCN concern a bit funny.  Seems to me to be simple enough - regulation would be if it is not legal in the country you are visiting then you do not get to do it.  Better yet ban it completely from the ship as an operational safety factor.  Unlike having a drink where you are the only one affected having a puff affects everyone around you that ends up breathing in the fumes.

Even if it is banned from operational ships, never underestimate the power of stupid. Mark my words, some dope is going to get thrown in jail in some foreign country because "hey it's legal and you can't tell me what to do".

 

[CountDC]

Not in the navy, never.

That is just exotic cigars wafting from the breezeway. 
:facepalm:

At least then we can say he was told not to when his family cries that we left him to rot in jail.

 

[Navy_Pete]

On the plus side, none of that would affect NDHQ.  Which is reasonable, given that heavy marijuana use is legitimate explanation for the decisions made in Ottawa.  ;D

 

[dogger1936]

Dutch soldiers in Bosnia were fined 50 Euro if they were caught red handed smoking cannabis on tour. Came up during conversation many moons ago. I'm sure if the dutch have managed to keep a military going with the introduction of pot, Canada will manage too.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

My understanding, in recently speaking to a Dutch Officer, that cannabis usage is now grounds for release, at least from their Air Force.

 

[Gunner98]

The latest I have heard is that they are considering a 24-hour before duty cap and that some trades will be considered safety sensitive with longer time caps.  If you start your workday at 0700 on Monday morning than your last hit exhale will have to be at 0700 on Sunday.  The challenge is having an effective testing mechanism for impairment on duty sensitive enough to detect that you exhaled at 0705 on Sunday morning.  It is and will remain a risk mitigation issue with poor enforcement procedures.  The current incidence of cocaine and fentanyl use by CAF members pose far greater risks.

 

[SupersonicMax]

The latest I have heard is that they are considering a 24-hour before duty cap and that some trades will be considered safety sensitive with longer time caps.  If you start your workday at 0700 on Monday morning than your last hit exhale will have to be at 0700 on Sunday.  The challenge is having an effective testing mechanism for impairment on duty sensitive enough to detect that you exhaled at 0705 on Sunday morning.  It is and will remain a risk mitigation issue with poor enforcement procedures.  The current incidence of cocaine and fentanyl use by CAF members pose far greater risks.

We have no mean now to ensure members did not drink in the 8 hrs before duty or 12 hrs before flying and the world isn't falling.  If you suspect someone is impaired (alcohol or drugs), you should either challenge the individual or bring it up to the attention of the CoC.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Dutch soldiers in Bosnia were fined 50 Euro if they were caught red handed smoking cannabis on tour. Came up during conversation many moons ago. I'm sure if the dutch have managed to keep a military going with the introduction of pot, Canada will manage too.

Which explains the crime of Srebrenica, right?