Let's Deal With A Little REALITY Here, Okay?

[Canuck1963]

Your responses were based on petty, stupid childish insults---nothing more.

ALL of MY comments are founded upon a reasoned response, and in the process of said response I called out some folks on the ignorant, clueless things they've said...point-by-point.

And the only people that you claim "share YOUR reality" are your fellow crack-pipe-smoking junkies that share your cardboard box on top of the Yonge/Dundas subway grate.

You are dismissed, I say.

Get out of my office, and hand in your toothbrush to my adjutant on your way out the door.

 

[Michael OLeary]

LOL, you're a comedian right, just here to frig with me?

 

[Canuck1963]

(winks)

Possibly....possibly......

 

[Canuck1963]

Seriously, though:

Way-back-when....I remember one night very vividly when I was "in" (as they say).

I was part of a L.R.R.P. team, and I had this one fella I was stuck with all night long, that I almost drowned in a creek....simply because he was saying the stupidest, most misguided, ignorant things  just SOLELY for the sake of being stupid, misguided and ignorant. It was like arguing with a 4-year-old. I believe my last words to him were, "When no one's looking....I'm going to effing stab you in the throat until you're dead."

Oh well.

 

[Journeyman]

I was part of a L.R.R.P. team, and I had this one fella I was stuck with all night long, that I almost drowned in a creek....simply because he was saying the stupidest, most misguided, ignorant things  just SOLELY for the sake of being stupid, misguided and ignorant. It was like arguing with a 4-year-old. I believe my last words to him were, "When no one's looking....I'm going to effing stab you in the throat until you're dead."

Sometimes I guess you just have to play rock-paper-chainsaw with yourself to decide if you'll drown them, or stab them in the throat.  :nod:

 

[Michael OLeary]

Seriously, though:

Way-back-when....I remember one night very vividly when I was "in" (as they say).

I was part of a L.R.R.P. team, and I had this one fella I was stuck with all night long, that I almost drowned in a creek....simply because he was saying the stupidest, most misguided, ignorant things  just SOLELY for the sake of being stupid, misguided and ignorant. It was like arguing with a 4-year-old. I believe my last words to him were, "When no one's looking....I'm going to effing stab you in the throat until you're dead."

Oh well.

Seriously?

Really?

 

[Teeps74]

op:

I should add something aside from the above smiley...

And so, off to go, I, one weary soul, to my nice warm bed.

I go now, with the fondest of memories and a chuckle derived from this very thread.

 

[Canuck1963]

Seriously?

Really?

Seriously.

True story.

Ahhh.......the indiscretions of youth.

Teeps:

Do you usually get thoughts like these as per normal? Or just since you gave up your heroin habit?

You can tell me....honest.

I'm not judgmental.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Well, I may not have your extensive patrolling experience, but I don't remember the last time I heard it referred to as LRRP in Canada.

But, since I'm being accused of so many things (drugs and all) and obviously out of touch with your version of reality, maybe you just need to sit me on your knee and tell me all about what it's like to be in the ARMY.

 

[ekpiper]

I think that at this point in the thread, I can safely advise:

"Don't feed the trolls"

 

[Canuck1963]

Well, I may not have your extensive patrolling experience, but I don't remember the last time I heard it referred to as LRRP in Canada.

But, since I'm being accused of so many things (drugs and all) and obviously out of touch with your version of reality, maybe you just need to sit me on your knee and tell me all about what it's like to be in the ARMY.

I wouldn't classify my background as having "extensive patrolling experience"-----it was brief, but intense, to be sure.  I can't "put you on my knee" because that would be an indication of pedophilia---of which I am NOT afflicted with. (so you can keep your hairy ass OFF of my knee, thank you very much). And as for what it's "like to be in the Army"....I can't do that, either: as I've already said, there are 30 years that separate "MY" Army from "today's" Army; Hell, even the small arms weaponry (which I recieved a TQ2 in) ain't the same no more. Cripes, you may as well lump in the uniforms while you're at it. Nope....sorry, man: can't help ya there.

I DO know one thing, though:

Being a little older has left me in a position to instinctively question the cause , why's and wherefores as to the reasons behind why (and what) the young men and women of my country are dying for.  Maybe THAT is the one thing all armies will have in common, regardless of however many years separate them:

They can always die. 

 

[Canuck1963]

I think that at this point in the thread, I can safely advise:

"Don't feed the trolls"

Uhhhhh....what are you sayin', piper?

Are you inferring that I'm a "troll"?

Well?

ARE YOU?  :rage:

 

[Michael OLeary]

Being a little older has left me in a position to instinctively question the cause , why's and wherefores as to the reasons behind why (and what) the young men and women of my country are dying for.  Maybe THAT is the one thing all armies will have in common, regardless of however many years separate them:

So, which part of the cause are you questioning?

Canada’s Priorities

Canada is focussed on a targeted set of objectives in keeping with proven Canadian strengths and consistent with Afghan objectives and the efforts of the international community.

The first four priorities focus primarily on Kandahar. Canada is helping the Government of Afghanistan to:

    * maintain a more secure environment and establish law and order by building the capacity of the Afghan National Army and Police, and support complementary efforts in the areas of justice and corrections.
    * provide jobs, education, and essential services, like water.
    * provide humanitarian assistance to people in need, including refugees.
    * enhance the management and security of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.

Nationally, Canada is helping to:

    * build Afghan institutions that are central to our Kandahar priorities and support democratic processes such as elections.
    * contribute to Afghan-led political reconciliation efforts aimed at weakening the insurgency and fostering a sustainable peace.

As Canada transforms its engagement in Afghanistan, our Kandahar-focused programming will comprise up to 50 percent of our total effort, and more and more funding will be directed toward efforts to benefit the people of that province.

Signature projects:

    * Dahla Dam
    * Education
    * Polio eradication

http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-afghanistan/priorities-priorites/index.aspx?lang=eng

 

[Canuck1963]

So, which part of the cause are you questioning?

http://www.afghanistan.gc.ca/canada-afghanistan/priorities-priorites/index.aspx?lang=eng

Okay.

Fair enough.

Here's what I have a problem with, per se:

While the information you posted above looks fine-and-dandy in writing and sounds very wonderful.......it's a government-packaged sales pitch. Nothing more. Look......the whole reason why Canada went into that country in the FIRST place, was to take down the Taliban-led government because they were harboring a terrorist network that had to be smashed, i.e., Al-Queada. We did NOT go there to engage in 'Nation-Building".  This entire objective has now morphed into (and suffered from) something called "mission creep": what started out as a very straightforward project.....has now changed radically into something else; something which WE should have NO part of, especially after eight years. Every available scrap of information/stastic shows that a majority of this "Afghan Army/Police Force" are either A) Drug addicts; B) Drug dealers; C) Just plain incompetent. The Karzai government is NO better. At all. There is not a single piece of information to suggest (that can be verified by the international community, let alone the ISAF) that this character has anything even APPROACHING a 'legitimate, fair, competent and DEMOCRATIC body of governance'.

If I'm going to see Canadian troopers die....then I can think of LOTS of other worthwhile opportunities to send them into harms way, for other causes in other places. 

Dying for the likes of Karzai, Kabul, Kandahar or Afganistan in general is NOT one of them (at least not for the way/manner in which this "mission" currently exists). As it stands, Canada has taken on THREE TIMES as many casualties as ANY other nation presently involved there, in ratio to our numbers deployed. THREE TIMES AS MANY. This, to me, is totally effing unacceptable.

See, some posters here will call what I write "rants"; that's cool. They will "rant" for Canadians to keep dying for Hamid Karzai and his thugs; I shall "rant" against having them die for Hamid Karzai and his thugs.

So it's all good.

 

[Michael OLeary]

While the information you posted above looks fine-and-dandy in writing and sounds very wonderful.......it's a government-packaged sales pitch. Nothing more. Look......the whole reason why Canada went into that country in the FIRST place, was to take down the Taliban-led government because they were harboring a terrorist network that had to be smashed, i.e., Al-Queada. We did NOT go there to engage in 'Nation-Building".  This entire objective has now morphed into (and suffered from) something called "mission creep": what started out as a very straightforward project.....has now changed radically into something else; something which WE should have NO part of, especially after eight years. Every available scrap of information/stastic shows that a majority of this "Afghan Army/Police Force" are either A) Drug addicts; B) Drug dealers; C) Just plain incompetent. The Karzai government is NO better. At all. There is not a single piece of information to suggest (that can be verified by the international community, let alone the ISAF) that this character has anything even APPROACHING a 'legitimate, fair, competent and DEMOCRATIC body of governance'.

And your substantive proof for this is?

 

[Canuck1963]

You're kidding me........right?

Let's be honest, here: I could spend all damn night long posting about a gazillion different links/sources which would illustrate/back-up everything I've just said. But YOU ain't gonna be happy with ANY of them, and we both know it. You'll write them off as easy-as-you please. Instead, how about I just go into a simpler tactic here:

I personally,  absolutely, TOTALLY remember the reasons as to why Canada went into Afghanistan IN THE BEGINNING, from Day One. And you know what?

They are NOT the same reasons as are being given NOW.

Look carefully at the link you provided:

Is that what was said in the beginning? Were those PRECISELY the reasons given?

(This is a yes or no question, btw)

 

[leroi]

Don't have a lot of time to post here, so I'll be quick----but I promise to get back in a timely fashion to address each point that's been hurled my way.

As for what my "qualifications" are, or "background" is and what entitles to me to the opinions that I have...well, it's really quite frakkin' simple:

1. I am a law-abiding, law-enforcing, taxpaying CITIZEN of this nation, who is concerned that the young troopers who represent his nation are now stuck in quagmire whereby they are dying in order to prop up a drug-dealing, corrupt, ***-backwards "government". Besides, many Canadians have died in the past so that I can say these things openly, have they not? Either you respect free-speech....or you don't. Either it's a right...or it's not. However, I promise I WILL make an effort to know what the hell I'm talking about, okay?

2.  As a young man, I did serve in the infantry many, many years ago (with the 48th); I never experienced combat. But so what?  But my previous comments had nothing to do this; rather, it was the political angle of what's involved. I'll let some of the folks around here in on a little secret: you need a POLITICAL solution to this mess....NOT a military one.  The military is SUPPOSED to provide a stable security situation, so a political solution can become possible, and take place. We can win every single damn battle....but still lose the war.  The majority of the folks on this site seem to be pretty decent types....but there ARE a few cement heads who genuinely think that this fiasco will be settled at the muzzle of a gun. Having a reasoned, rational, intelligent debate with THOSE types is like pistol-whipping a blind kid.

And please:

While I will willingly entertain ANYONE with ANY style of debate....if you come at me and all you got for ammo is to defend that puke Karzai and for whom it's totally worth dying for because he's the "lesser of any evil" there...then don't bother. I'll just label you as a foolish simpleton, and that'll be that. That a-hole is not worth ONE drop of Canadian blood. At all. AT ALL.

Dammit.

See what you made me do????

This was supposed to be a SHORT post :crybaby:

ANONYMOUS,

Why are you HERE venting displeasure about Canada's involvement in Afghanistan to the VERY people who must pay for those decisions with their blood?

If you really cared about ending the mission you'd be more effective challenging politicians. Why not start up a FaceBook group, a petition, write a few letters? 

I bet many CF members would thank you for it since it's ill-conceived political decisions, often enabled by voter apathy at the polls, that ultimately end up getting them wounded, killed.

This you've written below is pure codswallop. Neither your age nor your past service entitles you to any SUPERIOR ability to emote over deaths of Canadian Forces' members.  NEWSFLASH YOU DON'T OWN other people's emotions. AND, you possess no SUPERIOR ability to question this war.  But unlike you, people with a GENUINE interest in ANALYZING the mission in Afghanistan go here rather than erecting their own soap box to ACT OUT sublimated frustrations.

The sentence in yellow below WAS UNCALLED FOR. 

How much worse could you possibly try to make our soldiers, sailors, airmen and women feel?

AS a civilian, I'm glad you're no longer serve in the military. 

And for all anyone knows here, and based on some of your insulting choice adjectives and disrespect, I'd say it's quite likely you're an anonymous sociopath and incapable of feeling anything for anyone else--other than maybe a misdirected HATE and RAGE coupled by a stifled IMPOTENCE disabling you from following appropriate political channels to effect change.

Being a little older has left me in a position to instinctively question the cause , why's and wherefores as to the reasons behind why (and what) the young men and women of my country are dying for.  Maybe THAT is the one thing all armies will have in common, regardless of however many years separate them:

They can always die.

NO KIDDING ...

 

[Michael OLeary]

Is that what was said in the beginning? Were those PRECISELY the reasons given?

From the UN Security Council Resolution 1386 (2001)

Adopted by the Security Council at its 4443rd meeting, on
20 December 2001

      The Security Council,

      Reaffirming its previous resolutions on Afghanistan, in particular its
resolutions 1378 (2001) of 14 November 2001 and 1383 (2001) of 6 December
2001,

      Supporting international efforts to root out terrorism, in keeping with the
Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming also its resolutions 1368 (2001) of 12
September 2001 and 1373 (2001) of 28 September 2001,

    Welcoming developments in Afghanistan that will allow for all Afghans to
enjoy inalienable rights and freedom unfettered by oppression and terror,

      Recognizing that the responsibility for providing security and law and order
throughout the country resides with the Afghan themselves,

      Reiterating its endorsement of the Agreement on provisional arrangements in
Afghanistan pending the re-establishment of permanent government institutions,
signed in Bonn on 5 December 2001 (S/2001/1154) (the Bonn Agreement),

http://www.nato.int/isaf/topics/mandate/unscr/resolution_1386.pdf

You can find links to the other Resolutions supporting the initial ISAF mandate here:
http://www.nato.int/isaf/topics/mandate/index.html


You didn't say which things Canada is doing in Afghanistan that you oppose?

Is it the support to creating national institutions?  Or the eradication of polio? Or something else?

 

[leroi]

Okay.

Fair enough.

Here's what I have a problem with, per se:

While the information you posted above looks fine-and-dandy in writing and sounds very wonderful.......it's a government-packaged sales pitch. Nothing more. Look......the whole reason why Canada went into that country in the FIRST place, was to take down the Taliban-led government because they were harboring a terrorist network that had to be smashed, i.e., Al-Queada. We did NOT go there to engage in 'Nation-Building".  This entire objective has now morphed into (and suffered from) something called "mission creep": what started out as a very straightforward project.....has now changed radically into something else; something which WE should have NO part of, especially after eight years. Every available scrap of information/stastic shows that a majority of this "Afghan Army/Police Force" are either A) Drug addicts; B) Drug dealers; C) Just plain incompetent. The Karzai government is NO better. At all. There is not a single piece of information to suggest (that can be verified by the international community, let alone the ISAF) that this character has anything even APPROACHING a 'legitimate, fair, competent and DEMOCRATIC body of governance'.

If I'm going to see Canadian troopers die....then I can think of LOTS of other worthwhile opportunities to send them into harms way, for other causes in other places. 

Dying for the likes of Karzai, Kabul, Kandahar or Afganistan in general is NOT one of them (at least not for the way/manner in which this "mission" currently exists). As it stands, Canada has taken on THREE TIMES as many casualties as ANY other nation presently involved there, in ratio to our numbers deployed. THREE TIMES AS MANY. This, to me, is totally effing unacceptable.

See, some posters here will call what I write "rants"; that's cool. They will "rant" for Canadians to keep dying for Hamid Karzai and his thugs; I shall "rant" against having them die for Hamid Karzai and his thugs.

So it's all good.

Your preaching to the choir again: NEWSFLASH: Canada's combat mission ends 2011.

Maybe you could find a DFAIT or CIDA site to troll?

 

[Canuck1963]

ANONYMOUS,

Why are you HERE venting displeasure about Canada's involvement in Afghanistan to the VERY people who must pay for those decisions with their blood?

If you really cared about ending the mission you'd be more effective challenging politicians. Why not start up a FaceBook group, a petition, write a few letters? 

I bet many CF members would thank you for it since it's ill-conceived political decisions, often enabled by voter apathy at the polls, that ultimately end up getting them wounded, killed.

This you've written below is pure codswallop. Neither your age nor your past service entitles you to any SUPERIOR ability to emote over deaths of Canadian Forces' members.  NEWSFLASH YOU DON'T OWN other people's emotions. AND, you possess no SUPERIOR ability to question this war.  But unlike you, people with a GENUINE interest in ANALYZING the mission in Afghanistan go here rather than erecting their own soap box to ACT OUT sublimated frustrations.

The sentence in yellow below WAS UNCALLED FOR. 

How much worse could you possibly try to make our soldiers, sailors, airmen and women feel?

AS a civilian, I'm glad you're no longer serve in the military. 

And for all anyone knows here, and based on some of your insulting choice adjectives and disrespect, I'd say it's quite likely you're an anonymous sociopath and incapable of feeling anything for anyone else--other than maybe a misdirected HATE and RAGE coupled by a stifled IMPOTENCE disabling you from following appropriate political channels to effect change.
NO KIDDING ...

Leroi:

What are you?

Some kind of freakin' nut who's off her medication? Or are you just one of those cement-heads who's quite happy to see a never-ending number of our young men and women keep on dying? Why was my last sentence "uncalled for"? Do you even KNOW what context it was intended? Look, if the likes of YOU thinks Hamid Karzai is worth Canadian blood being spilled for....bully for you. Why don't you invite him over for supper, then? Or open up a bed-and-breakfast and make the bastard some hash browns? There's a swell gal.

I happen to think a little more highly of what our military is worth, that's all.  And dying for your pal does NOT make the cut. End of story.

"Why are you HERE venting displeasure about Canada's involvement in Afghanistan to the VERY people who must pay for those decisions with their blood?"

Because unlike a mental case like yourself, I actually care for the troops and it really hurts my feelings when they are killed or hurt. I dunno. I'm kinda funny that way.  Also, it's an internet-based FORUM titled "Canadian Military In Afghanistan"......remember?

And you will NOT refer to me as "Anonymous" again.

You WILL address me accordingly and properly, as per my designated title---Canuck1963.

This is your only warning, Margot Kidder.

Hear me?